I'd be inclined to blame it on the eggnog (even though I don't really believe that) and drop it for another year. Some time if the time is right, ask your SDs if they cared at all, and offer to do whatever makes them feel happiest.

But don't let yourself overthink it or 'work it through' with Hubby. What would be the upshot?...

I think she had to much too drink, I would ignore it and wouldn't go anywhere. If my ex called me crying that he didn't get to see me on a specific day, I would think he went nuts. LOL Ex called me over the holidays of course but he didn't cry that he didn't get to see me. LOL I know kids of any age love to see parents together, but I have never heard parents crying about it.

sweeby I disagree: "Some time if the time is right, ask your SDs if they cared at all, and offer to do whatever makes them feel happiest". I think kids need to realize that parents are not together and "whatever" would make kids happy is just not going to happen. Nobody needs to spend holidays together with exspouses even for the sake of the children (aren't they grown?).
who cares about next year? silly to think now what to DO next Christmas.

what bothers me is that DH would even consider going. why? They way to enmesh and involved in each others lives. I also think that it is somewhat disrespectful to a new wife/husband to constantly bring exspouses in their daily lives. Frankly if my ex would constantly bug me over nonsense I wouldn't answer the phone. Why is your DH answering the phone, let her leave a message.

"she was upset because DH hadn't come over! She said it is important to her that the girls see them both together on the night of Christ's birth"

Hmm, yeah, that is a little weird & I'd probably chalk up her reaction to the eggnog, but on the other hand she does seem to expect these sorts of get togethers..Wonder what her DH thinks about it?

I probably would just drop it and not mention it again & hopefully she'll forget about it.

~Cat

Sounds a bit strange to me! But you did the right thing by staying out of it. I see no reason why the grown kids can not drive themselves to your home. BM needs to realize that her kids are grown and her need to see ex is diminishing.

I really appreciate your perspective on this. I really want to do the right thing, and I hate to be the cause of someone else's pain, but after all these years of making like "one big happy family" for SDs' sake, I'm ready for a change. I just didn't realize BM was going to notice like this; I thought we could just kind of gradually withdraw.

We have also noticed that over the past few months, BM is returning to her earlier pattern of trying to connect with DH in private, rather than with both of us. This makes DH super uncomfortable, and feels intrusive to me (though there is some relief in letting him handle everything).

One new piece of information is helping DH and me sort through this. During the call (again, perhaps eggnog-fueled, ha) BM again railed at DH for the girls not wanting to go to Christmas Eve church (though one SD did end up going) and not wanting to have a prayer ceremony in the morning (something new in their house according to SD). During the phone call BM made a bitter comment about my influence. I heard DH say "You know that's not true, BM" and quickly changed the subject. So I guess she is on that again.

I'm glad the holidays are over, ha!

I see only one solution: DH stopping enabling her and alowing her to be that much in his life. He is the one who needs to put a stop to it. Until then, nothing is going to change. I really do not understand why he continues these phone conversations or stopping by. Just being nice? I think it is somewhat inapprorpiate, she calls to complain about you and he still talks to her. Why not keeping interactions to a polite but absolute minimum?

I totally and completely agree with FD's first post! It is very odd that she would even call. Even if it did upset her, she should've kept it to herself. Some thoughts don't need to be expressed.

I also agree with FD that the kids, at some point, have to come to grips with what divorce really is. They didn't choose it, but it is what it is. Divorce means PARENTS NOT BEING TOGETHER. Now, I believe it's up to the parents to make things flow better for the kids, but not to put on some fake, twisted, 4-parent, we're one big happy "family" situation. They are adults now. They can come to terms with divorce.

Honestly, sounds to me like (looking at the big picture here) maybe BM is having problems in her marriage, and is being nostalgic with your DH. The only way to stop this is for DH to talk to her very directly about it. No hinting or insinuating. He needs to come out and say "Now that the girls are driving, there is no need to come to your home on Christmas Eve" or "I'd rather discuss plans directly with the girls".

It does sound wierd to me, too, but I have a thought. You've said you and DH have maintained a friendly relationship with her and her DH over the years, and now that the kids are in college, you are backing off that. Perhaps you had different understandings of the relationship. Perhaps, while you thought you were all being friendly, she thought you were all friends? And now, not only are her kids out of the house and she may be having some empty nest syndrome going on, she's also discovering that people (you and DH) she thought were her friends were really just being polite because of the kids. It can be quite hurtful to discover someone you thought of as a friend never really thought of you the same way. Add in holiday stress and eggnog...

Well, with the added information about BM trying to get more time with your Hubby and insinuating that it's your fault her kids aren't more religious...

Sounds like Dad needs to have a clarification conversation with BM. Yes, there are some times that all of the parents and steps should come together to show their love of and support for the kids: Graduation ceremonies, weddings, funerals, major illnesses... At those times, both bio parents (and their spouses) should be there and everyone should 'make nice' even if it's 100% fake and everyone knows it. A little social hypocrisy can be a good thing.

But Christmas? Every year? Nope. Time for Dad to 'cut the cord'.

Was she the one trying to get you and DH over for a big happy family Thanksgiving with Grandpa?

There might be something to what Quirk suggested with the empty nest thing. What with the kids off in school, meeting steadies and getting on with their young adulthood everything is changing for BM. With a ten year tradition of you and DH dropping by on Christmas Eve, it's just one more thing gone and changing in BM's life.

Not that any of that is your problem, but something to consider as you've said you've noticed BM getting clingy the last few months. I think you also mentioned once that BM's current husband does not always/usually attend your joint outings of kid events and now you and DH wish to begin to have less togetherness during those times with BM. Could be BM is scared, lonely, and afraid of what lays ahead for her.

Kinda sad, but you/DH are not responsible nor should have to console her. She might have dealt with Christmas Eve better had she known before hand that that tradition was ending, it may be that it just really surprised her as she was not expecting it. Who knows, she may have made your favortie cookies just for the event and you, had your favorite holiday music going in the background all in order to please and carry out 'her' tradition, and it did not happen.

Are SKs somewhat immature? My DD21 cannot be influenced or pursuaded anything (it is not always a good thing LOl). Do these kids switch their religious preferences just to please people? I am not Christian but I assume Christmas is a big holiday for Christians and not attending church that day because of what others say.... But then again it is a bit late, they are not minors anymore and too bad they are that easilly influenced.

I by the way commend BM's DH for not attneding these family joined events, i think he sends clear message to everyone: it is not healthy.

Honestly if all bm calls about is to complain about you anyways why does dh bother answering her calls?? Why not let them go to voicemail and call dd's later on to see what bm was calling about? Perhaps if he was to not answer her calls and call the kids back to see what they needed bm would get the point to only call when it was concerning the kids??

Quirk and Justme, your images of BM making our favorite cookies, and being hurt thinking friends had snubbed her....waaaaah, that is just the picture I have in my head! I feel so mean. I think maybe she just got all sentimental.

Ashley, I have wondered myself from time to time if her marriage is doing OK, if maybe that's why she seems to be trying to turn more to DH than before. But, things do seem OK there, at least when we are there to see them. And a few weeks ago I was walking across the campus where BM's husband teaches, and saw them across the quad, and they were walking close together and smiling--that was a good sign, too. But I do think that even though her DH seems like a good stepdad, she just naturally turns to SDs' biodad sometimes.

Mom2emall, he has been trying to minimize the chitchat with BM, but when the girls are home, it would be hard to not answer when we see it's their house, because often it's them.

I do have to "own" that a big share of this mess belongs to me. DH and BM were so antagonistic when we first got together, and it was always me who tried to be sociable and friendly. The two of them probably were on the road to "cordial but distant," which is the goal now.

Finedreams, I don't think the girls are easily swayed. They are pretty strong characters. (Frankly at their age I faked still being a believer so as not to have to deal with my own parents freaking out, ha.) For DH and me, it is pretty much an absence of supernatural discussion, not the presence of any kind of talk about religion or whatever. It usually doesn't come up; just not an issue in our home. I think BM pictures us having science ceremonies or something, ha! Since religion was part of hers and DH's breakup, maybe that's why she is so focused on it.

The girls leave tomorrow and Wednesday, so we'll see if things calm down. Thanks for your thoughts, ladies!