KKNY - are you blind? Did you not read my last post? SD'S MOTHER AND FATHER ARE THE ONES DOING THE MONITORING. AND WE ALL AGREE THEY SHOULD.

Don't bother - just toss out another ridiculous, sarcastic and totally off point comment and lose more respect.

"Money and power"? Have you been drinking?!?

As I said previously, it doesnt matter if its a stepfamily, or an intact never divorced family. Snooping in someones email, listening on someones phone conversations, searching someones room, unless there is a compelling reason for it, is an invasion of privacy and does not garnish respect from a teen ( or anyone else)

Unless there is an indication that the child is doing something dangerous, or wildly inappropriate, childrens privacy should be respected. I fail to understand the reasoning behind a parent, or stepparent who blatantly and consistently trespasses into the private space of their tee

My own personal opinion of people that snoop is that they are control freaks, who want to manipulate situations to their liking. They are very disrespectful, and I would be willing to bet they would be the first ones whining if someone weere invading THEIR privacy.

Oh well. Opinions are like you know whats and everyone has one. I am sure we both will give each others opinions all the consideration it deserves ( smile). You dont have to agree with me. I am just glad that those of you who think nothing is wrong with snooping, arent part of my family. I would have a difficult time living in harmony with someone who cannot respect boundaries.

JNM,

In many divorcees, the man leaves the marriage with more money. And the X wants to make certain child is taken care of.

No, I havent been drinking.

And I suspect that when some SMs here are older, and may experience DH leaving them for younger or richer woman, they may be more understanding of dynamics of situation.

I'm not quite certain how me saying "No, my cell phone is for emergencies only. But you can call Mom when we get home" or my BF saying "No, you can't call Mom during supper to complain that we're making you eat your salad. But if you're still mad after, you can call her then" is bullying A__.
Maybe you meant furtively reading emails without the kid's knowledge, not the practical things like Mo4 saying "I'll go get the phone for you once I'm no longer up to my elbows in flour"?
Could you clarify?

One thing though, if I were you, I'd be wary of making sure ex's GF has minimal contact with DD. I'd be concerned that this would cause trouble between her and her dad and weaken their relationship... or that it would come back to bite me later if DD and GF turned out to really hit it off and DD resented me for that she was discouraged from getting to know GF... or that Dad would see me being a jerk about GF and be a jerk right back about whatever he could... etc
I don't mean that you should have her on speeddial and have DD call her every night to tell her about her day, just that I would be concerned that fostering a divide between them could be more problematic than if contact between them was allowed its own organic progress.

"JNM,
In many divorcees, the man leaves the marriage with more money. And the X wants to make certain child is taken care of."

What in the world does this have to do with what we were discussing? Do you intentially change the subject when you have been painted into a corner?

Ceph

To clarify, no I dont mean you have to go get the phone when your arms are up in flour. I do think reading emails and letters from a child to mom is wrong. I think serenity's post on this was the best.

My DD is 16. She has her own mind. Bad wording on my part, she decides. It happens her decision is same as mine -- that a woman who has affair with married man with children cant be trusted.

This post started out as trying to make SD feel welcome. Even if SMs intent is good, I think that reading her emails is not a good idea.

Dont know why you are so angry.

Commenting on dynamics of divorced parents. This is a blog, people, inclduing moms, can post what they want, but I dont think I was "painted in a corner", this was just my response to people who think that mom agrees to things out of free will. Maybe yes Maybe no

I agree that snooping is an invasion of privacy and shows a lack of respect! The same principles of respect should apply in an intact family or a split one.

I do think though that kids may lack the maturity to warrant complete privacy, so parents should be able to ask to see what they've been up to on the internet, etc. That's when something like my mom used to do with the computer is a good idea - keeping the computer in a public space in the house, and asking for a list of my logins and passwords in a sealed envelope, just in case she ever needed it.

I also think it's good to encourage the kids to have their friends or SOs over to the house once they are teenagers. That way you know who they're hanging out with and have a better idea of what they're up to - eliminating any need to find out through nefarious means!

Diaries and journals should be private though - ESPECIALLY if they keep it stashed away in a hiding place! I knew my journal was totally private. My mom actually asked me when I was about 11 if I would like to keep a private journal that I could hide in my room and it would be totally private. If she ever found it while she was cleaning or something, she would not read it, and if I would like, she would get me a small combination lockbox to keep it in so I could be assured of my privacy for it.
That's terrible for you that your mom went through your journal. I would have trouble trusting her after that too!

For a young child with big troubles, like Ima's SD, I think the lines are a little fuzzy. She deserves privacy and to be able to pour her thoughts and feelings out on paper without anyone else looking at it... but on the other hand, she's not old enough to communicate all her feelings clearly to her parents or her counselor, so it may be beneficial for someone to be checking up on what's going on in her head to try to better her emotional well-being.
If she was 12, I'd probably feel that her writings should be her own, but at 8... I think I lean more towards that as long as no one ever attacks her for anything said in her thoughts book, and anything gleaned from it should only be used to help her, then it might be for the best to keep an eye on it for now. Once she's a little older and in a better emotional place, then it should be hers alone.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

I have all of my childrens passwords, voluntarily given to me by them. I havent ever used them to snoop, although my kids, and foster kids in their late teens sometimes have me log into their online banking and pay their bills for them, lol.

You are correct that just the fact that they know you can check if you are concerned about something is enough to keep them from doing anything really stupid, like posting lewd pics , etc. online.

Part of the agreement that I have the passwords is also that I promised , if I ever feel the need to look, I would talk to them about it first, instead of going behind their back.

I also can see checking emails for someone whose child is troubled. But I do have a hard time understanding why any parent or stepparent would read emails intended for the other parent. To me, thats never right.

Part of that is that my stepchildrens stepfather routinely reads through and approve or disapprove of any emails that my stepdchildren send to my husband. The girl in particular is upset and finding it very invasive that her stepfather is reading her mail, and she is starting to react in an angry fashion She feels she has no privacy, and that is not a good way for a girl in her early teens to be feeling.

Kathline, I don't think it's up to anyone, parent or step parent to approve or disapprove of what is written to or from the child & parent.

I'm sure I've stepped on some toes by admitting that I read my SD's letters but I would never take it upon myself to decide if it should be sent or not. If she writes it with the intention of sending it, it gets sent. The only purpose reading it serves is to help her counselor know what issues may need to be focused on. It has helped and hopefully she won't need to be in counseling at all eventually. But, as with my own daughter, if I felt she was having problems again, I wouldn't hesitate to look for the reason why.

My kids know that all electronics (text messages, email, etc) are always subject to my review, even if I found that there is a problem, I probably wouldn't tell them how I found out. I would address the problem and deal with the issue at hand, instead of making it a situation where they will react to feeling their privacy was violated. When I found out my daughter was having problems and wanting to hurt herself, I didn't go to her and say "I found these poems you wrote" but I did address her feelings and through talking, she opened up and told me the problems. I don't think she told me before because she either didn't know how to bring it up or didn't think I would understand. If I had told her that I found her poems and read them, it might have turned into an argument about her privacy and the issue of why she wanted to hurt herself would not have gotten addressed. As a parent, I think we have the right to know what our kids are doing and we have a responsibility to know if they are quietly suffering and help them through these rough times. I agree that kids will be angry if they know and while I don't advocate being dishonest or lying, if you have a child that is troubled or having problems, the parents need to know and sometimes they are good at hiding it.

KKNY - why would you assume mom was coerced into anything? She actually came to us, if you want the truth. Why is it so hard for you to admit your sterotype may not apply here?

Not mad at all, just amazed that you can't open your eyes past what you want to see.

JNM, I just asked the question. Because I think most moms have issues with violating childs privacy.

And this thread, with SMs insisting they have the right to read letters, monitor emails to child doesnt do lot to eliminate any stereotypes.

I'm not sure what your "question" even was.

What if the father is reading letters to the mother? Or the mother is reading letters to the father? What does that do to your stereotype?

If two divorced parents decided they didn't want their child to pit them against each other, rather than forbidding phone calls when the child is upset with one of them, I think it would be far better for them to allow the child to call the other parent, who would then back up the other parent. Then the child learns that his/her parents back each other up - as opposed to learning that his/her parent interferes with communication with the other parent.

All these kids seem to be constantly being punished for one thing or another, far more than seems normal to me.

You are SO right TOS. In a perfect word this is exactly what would happen, but unfortunately too many parents have their own agendas and would rather tell their child that dad/mom was wrong to punish you for that, you poor little dear. If you were here with mom/dad that wouldn't happen. They put their agenda before the best interest of their child, so instead of telling the child "yes, it was wrong for you to spit on your brother and you deserve to be in your room" they will make the punishing parent the bad guy to make themselves look better in the child's eyes. Trust me, it happens more than you know as I don't believe you would do that.

Since the big pow wow with mom and step dad last week we do back each other up. I have often suggested if she wants to call her mom when she gets in trouble that we can both call mom, explain SD's behavior and see what mom has to say about it. The urge to call mom suddenly vanishes as it's not a true desire to talk to mom, it's a desire to hear that we were wrong to punish her. Mom actually has called me several times when SD has misbehaved with her to have me talk to SD because she won't listen to mom. (there are many issues wrong there that I won't get into now, but they are being worked on as of the pow wow. Yah!) Prior to this it was almost a given that unless SD had robbed a bank she would be told by mom we were big meanies. After years of this mom has realized the situation she created by making her life into a competition to be the nicest parent. Now she is cracking down the whip and trying to reverse years of learned behavior in a day.

So to reel myself back in, yes it would be far better to operate as you suggested. But sadly, unless you have two rational and supportive parties it just doesn't happen.

TOS

since my household is the one that doesn't allow (or forbid as you put it) SD to call her mom when she's upset, it is because of the additional problems it creates. (so please don't make it sound like other SM's do that, because I don't see that anyone else has said any such thing and implying it is unfair.)

If the situation were that her mom and dad were united in an effort to keep her from pitting them against each other, there would be no problem letting her call. When she did call (because she used to), she would start crying harder and mom couldn't understand her and when dad tried to explain the problem, mom would start yelling at dad because she couldn't handle hearing her baby cry. It never matters why she's in trouble, it's always "poor baby" and we are wrong to punish her for anything. What's the point of SD calling her mom when her mom can't change our rules or punishments?

Like JNM's situation, BM has made several requests to "get together" to work on being united. Every time we have scheduled it, she has some reason she can't do it. She insisted SD was ADHD and she couldn't handle her on her weeks (this was before she moved away) and said she needed to see a psychiatrist. She wanted to get medication for her daughter. We ended up making the appointments because although she kept insisting there was a problem, she never made the appointment. She went to a few sessions with a therapist that didn't feel her daughter was ADHD. As we were leaving, BM turned to me and said she needs to find a "real" doctor that can get medication for her daughter. We have used behavior modification techniques as well as just being very consistent with SD and most of her behavioral problems have ceased. Yet, she still has behavioral problems at BM's house and BM thinks the only solution is to medicate an otherwise healthy child.

I'm really paying attention to JNM's situation to see how long it lasts. I hope it works out (it would give me more hope) but then again, it doesn't seem that we are dealing with a BM that is nearly as rational as the one she has to deal with.

The parents were probably rational enough to raise their children when they were together. I suspect it would be a lot easier for them to act rationally if THEY AND THEY ALONE were dealing with any behavioral issues.

How often do these kids get punished? I don't think I've punished my kids more than a couple of times a year at most. I don't remember ever being punished after I was about 8 or so. Most infractions don't warrant anything more than a "Stop annoying your sister." I have rarely sent anyone to their room - what would be the point, when they "send" themselves to their rooms when they are upset.

My kids know about as much about Internet safety as I do. My youngest is not allowed to get on the Internet when no one is home, so she doesn't. One day I was about to go somewhere, and she was the only child awake. She was on Neopets or Webkins, and she said, "But Mom, if you are leaving, I can't be on the Internet." I am sure I would have completely forgotten. She keeps track of the rules better than I do.

The most recent incident didn't involve punishment. SD loves Tuna and I can't eat Tuna so since we usually all eat the same thing, she doesn't eat Tuna a lot. This last weekend, we were talking about lunch. DH came to me and said SD wanted a tuna sandwich for lunch. I suggested that they go ahead and eat that, I'll fix myself something else. She was happy about it but as soon as she saw that I was having a corndog and fries, she decided she didn't want her sandwich. DH told her she already ate most of it and she isn't getting corndogs. She got upset and started whining, "can I call my mom?" DH told her no, eat your lunch. She was allowed to call her later when she wasn't upset anymore but then she got her mom's voice mail. Mom didn't call her back until Wednesday...

Well TOS, as you have stated that you don't have problems with your kids swearing at teachers or adults I'm sure your boundaries for acceptable behavior are a little broader than my DH and I and therefore our children are sent to their room more often. I am more than fine with that equation given the source. My children don't get upset and send themselves to their rooms. They are sent away from the family as a consequence of their poor choices.

"The parents were probably rational enough to raise their children when they were together." Really? Would you care to ask my husband if his ex wife was rational when she would hold their 2 year old daughter in front of her when she was screaming at him and then chase him down when he would walk away rather than deal with her under those circumstances? Would you care to make any other completely unfounded statements about his life? He is actually laughing in awe that you would actually have the nerve to make such a statement.

"I suspect it would be a lot easier for them to act rationally if THEY AND THEY ALONE were dealing with any behavioral issues." Are you daring to imply that having a step mother and step father causes her behavior issues? I truly expected more from you. How disappointing. Perhaps you forget I am the one mom comes to when she can't get her daughter to listen or behave as SD does not act that way with me? You must have also forgot that mom and step dad came to DH and I asking to emulate our home as hers was failing badly under the way she was running it?

Yes, I'm sure you forgot. SM couldn't be getting it right and curbing poor behavior rather than creating it.

Yes, I do think that divorce and blended families often cause behavioral issues in the children.

I think it is inappropriate of him to be sharing details of his life with his exW with you. If I were ever to remarry, I certainly would not share details of my relationship with my exH with a new spouse.

My children's right to free speech is never abridged in our house. Not one of them has ever had detention and they rarely "misbehaved" in school.

I do think something is wrong if children are behaving in a way that merits frequent punishment - either their supervisors are too rigid, or something is bothering the children that should be addressed.

I was grounded once in my life, in 6th grade. I got bad grades and lied to my parents, but they of course found out when they visted my school and it was pretty embarassing. I wasn't allowed to go to a Christmas party and i already had a dress purchased. But then on that day my dad felt bad and changed his mind and let me go. It is funny how vividly I remember that. i also remember that I didn't feel bad about being grounded because I knew that what i did was wrong. I also remember that i felt that my dad's decision to end my punishment was the right decision. It taught me more than punishment. I never got bad grades after that not because I was afraid of punishment but because I was forgiven. I don't think punishment teaches anything.

I have four kids all 10 and under. Getting into trouble is a regular thing. Right now, our oldest is spending his latest stint on a two week grounding for lieing about his homework last weekend. It is part of being a kid growing up making mistakes and hopefully learning from them. Although, some are much more hard headed than others. Actions have consequences. Just like when my daughter made up a big lie about cupcakes at school. She was grounded to her room for the day and we had a loooong talk about what lieing is and why you can't do that.

And, ofcourse they were rational enough to raise their children on their own when they were together. That is why they got divorced... because everything was so hunky dory. It wouldn't have anything to do with the raging fights that would be egged on by mom following dad in the car with all of the kids when he would try to walk away. Or the fact that he would come home from work to find she had been home with the kids all day and they hadnt even been fed. (which btw I know you will say is only his side but numerous people have backed these stories up including some that were friends of hers until she started babysitting for them and decided not to feed their child either and was a habit she kept up while I was with DH.. dropping the kids off late in the evening without having eaten at all that day) I couldn't possibly have been a positive influence on their life. I mean I am only the one who got them into a new school, got them into activities (that I paid for on my own), signed them up for and took them to tutoring every other day, sat and did "special homework" on the weekends and any other time I could fit it in to bring them up to grade level at least. I am the person who sits and does craft projects and scrap books with them and curls the girls hair for special events. No, ofcourse not my very existance in their lives is somehow damaging. It does not matter that I am the one with the cool head saying now is not the time to get into this. Ofcourse it is all my fault because I am younger than the ex wife is and I make more money?? I really don't see how any of these things line up.

And, really... do you honeslty think in the midst of dealing with the past on a day to day basis. And continously feeling the reprocussion of the ex's anger that our spouse wouldnt share about their past. My DH and I talk about everything. It is one of the things both he and I have said in the past that we enjoy the most. We can sit and talk all night about our past, about our future, our kids...everything. There is nothing that is off limits. Just because I happen to be a second wife does not mean that suddenly we have to have subjects that are off limits to each other that we can't discuss. One of the things my mom always told me about her marriage to dad was "Out of anyone in this world I know I can tell him anything and not have to edit myself" And, just because I am the second wife does not mean that our marriage will fail. And to be honest I am truly sorry for what your husbands did to you. I think it is reprehensible but as with the ex wife I am tired of thinking well they are just hurting. Not everyone's marriage will end in divorce just because yours did. Not everyone's husband will leave them for a younger woman just because yours did. And I am entirely sick of being told otherwise. And, I am entirely sick of being told that we are abusing the situation with money and power or whatever it is that is in your head... or that this situation is soley caused by the SM or sparent. Because sometimes, it is just not us. Sometimes we are doing everything we can for these kids and our husbands.. sometimes we are doing what is right.

"All these kids seem to be constantly being punished for one thing or another, far more than seems normal to me."

Here are some of the recent (approx past two months) things punishments A__ has received when with us and why and how often:
- No Warcraft for four days for swearing at a teacher (this one was implemented by BM and we upheld it) - 1x
- The office chair is taken away from him because he uses it as a jungle gym. He sits on a kitchen chair now. If he continues to climb on it, he will be sitting on a stacking stool. - Ongoing
- Sent to the other room for refusing to apologize for being sexist (ie "Ceph cooked supper for us because women are supposed to cook and clean for men") - 2x
- No popcorn for harassing the cats - ~4x
- Sent to the other room for telling his dad that he hates him - ~5x
- No Warcraft tonight AND go to the other room to calm down for taking all the cushions off the couches to make a fort (which is no big deal) but then pouring a glass of water on one of them to make a moat and screaming at the top of his lungs when instructed to get a towel to clean it up AND then throwing a cushion at his dad when BF told him to stop screaming - 1x
- Skipped dessert and had to do the supper dishes by himself because he spit food on the table, refused to clean it up, got up from the table about 5 times during supper without asking, and didn't want to take his own plate to the sink after the meal - 1x

If he's sent to the other room, he can come out when he's calmed down and/or ready to apologize. When he apologizes or does what he was told to do in the first place, the incident is over and we go back to things as usual.
He goes to the other room anywhere from 0 to 5 times in a weekend, and stays in there for anywhere from 1 to 90 minutes. I'd say most weekends he gets sent to the other room once and stays there for about 5 minutes.

Here are some rewards A__ has received when with us in the same time period:
- Go to my lab for a tour and look under the microscopes for doing homework without being told and being good all morning - 1x
- Got comfy chair back for sitting properly for 1/2 hour - Ongoing
- Pick dessert for tonight for being good at the grocery store - ~3x
- Extra 15 minutes of Warcraft for a variety of different good behaviors - ~5x
- Go to riverbank to look at ice (his choice of activity - I thought it was weird, but I'm not 8) for being polite all day - 1x
- High fives for getting a hard word right when we're reading - ~20x ?? (I really don't know, it's a lot)
- "Good job A__!" or "I'm proud of you kiddo!" or "That's awesome!" gets said about twenty times a day for all sorts of things that he does

So yes, A__ is in trouble quite a lot... But when you consider that the positive reinforcement for the good things he does is nearly constant, spending five minutes in your room because you screamed at your dad you hate him and threw your shoes down the hallways when he said you should put your shoes in the closet (that was in September or October, so not on my above list) isn't really that extreme.

"Yes, I do think that divorce and blended families often cause behavioral issues in the children."

This is a different statement than you made early with completely different implications. Of course divorce and a blended family can cause issues. But it is often that whole picture, not just the new spouses (not saying that they aren't sometimes a problem, but this is not the case every time.)

One of these fights I mentioned was actually witnessed by me and several other of our co-workers, so it would be difficult to hide. But as momof4 said, we do not hide our pasts with eachother. That isn't just talking about his ex, it's talking about him, too. Why should he hide his life to spare her embarrsement? If you won't be proud of something you do being shared, don't do it.

You can't have it both ways, TOS. You can't preach that the first family doesn't disapear when an ex remarries but then say the ex can never discuss the first family. How can you have a relationship with any depth when your life "started" the day you met each other?

ceph,

I think it is very wrong to punish a child for something they said. My kids are free to say they hate me, etc. It is one thing to talk to them later about how saying things like that is hurtful, but my kids are never punished for what they say.

justnotmartha,

The first family does not disappear, and the relationship between the father and mother does not disappear, but this relationship is ENTIRELY SEPARATE from the relationship between the people in the second marriage. My exH was married very briefly several years before we met. I never grilled him about his first wife - he volunteered a little information, but not a lot, and that was fine. When he suggested giving away some of the wedding gifts they had gotten, I asked him if he was sure he wanted to because I thought they might have sentimental value. This woman/girl was a part of his life, but not a part of MY life.

I think it is ironic that is previous posts SM's have complained when the children reminisce about pleasant times they had with their parents when they were together, and yet you want your husband to tell you all about his first wife. Would you feel the same way if he started telling you all the good things about their life together?

It's strange you would assume I would "grill" my husband. Is it not possible he would volunteer information? I have asked periodic questions - "How did you and ex handle holidays with family?" or "Did ex read to SD as a baby?" Hardly the grilling you imply. Has DH volunteered several pieces of the past? Yes. Do I discourage him? No. Nor do I discourage him from asking anything about my past. Why would I hide it from my husband, and why would he hide his from me?

I don't recall saying I wanted to hear all about his past. I just don't want him to feel like he can't talk of it. And yes, I would love to hear something positive about their life together as it might give me some understanding of what he ever saw in her in the first place. My SD doesn't remember life with both parents together so I'm sure that unfounded statement you meant couldn't be directed at me.

justnotmartha,

It was not an unfounded statement, but it wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Awhile ago there was a thread in which some SM's were complaining because the stepchildren sometimes brought up events from the past, back when their parents were together, and it annoyed them.

Why would you care if his wife read to her daughter as a baby? (Did you ask if HE read to his daughter as a baby?)

You know they must have had some good times, or he wouldn't have married her. If he never mentions them, yet talks about other parts of his life with his exW, I would wonder why.

I don't know that I would have fallen in love with my exH if he had been highly critical of his first wife. I would have been difficult to respect him if he had not respected his first wife enough to limit discussion of their personal life together. I never felt that he had to hate her in order to love me. I never felt that he had to criticize her in order to confirm his feelings for me.

Well, aren't we the evil step mothers? We all want our husbands to hate his ex. We all think that it's the ex's fault they aren't together. We all think that our husbands are perfect. We all wish that the ex and children didn't exist. and We only want to hear what a witch the ex was....

Yes, we are an evil bunch. Yes, just a bunch of desperately lonely women that need a man so badly in our lives that we settle for only men that bash their ex's. We are so insecure that we don't want to think that he has ever had a happy day in his life with anyone other than us. Heck, I think my husbands child was conceived the one time his ex tied him up and forced herself on him the night she got him drunker than he's ever been. Yeah... that's what I think.

Well, the posts of the last few days have certainly gone a fair piece toward convincing me that your latest post is not as farcical as you intended it to be.

Funny, I forgot where I said he had to hate her. Maybe you could refresh my memory? You wouldn't - again - be making unfounded statements for which you have no basis would you?

Why does it matter to you why I cared? Why does it matter to you what my husband wants to share with me? Why are you the judge and jury about what he should feel appropriate to share about HIS life with HIS wife?

You don't know why they got married, or if they had any good times, and I am amazed each time you make these baseless statements. Not that it's any of your business, but he married her because she got pregnant on a post breakup tryst . . . just as his father did with his mother. It was what he felt he had to do, and it didn't last long. I don't doubt that they had some great times, and hope that they did. This in no way threatens me. I'm still trying to figure out why you think I would need him to hate her.

Ima - i heart sarcasm.

As I said before, I wouldn't want my H to be highly critical of his first wife. I did not say that YOU wanted your H to hate his wife - just that I did not. If you want to read something into that statement that I didn't intend, go ahead.

Just as you can often predict how your husband will treat you based on how he treats his mother, you can also predict how your husband will treat you based on how he treats his first wife.

Let's just say hypothetically that someone (not you) had a husband who routinely recounted stories of stupid things his first wife had done, of the I Love Lucy variety. The second wife could be pretty sure that he would do the same with his third wife, if he and she divorced or if she died first.

ceph, with such extensive and elaborate punishment routine
all you will cause is more rebellion. It seems like he is constantly punished for something.

he doesn't seem to get better so why do you think he will change just because you keep punishing? As he will get older he will be more creative in his misbehavior if you cotinue pushing it. Would you be punishing your own child that much too?

FD, I think there is a tendacy for SMs to be tougher on stepchildren. But all they say is there child is well behaved, etc., but steps are a terror. And then they want more control over steps.

"Yes, I do think that divorce and blended families often cause behavioral issues in the children."

No duh!!! Divorce alone can cause behavioral issues in some children. As does fighting parents in intact families. It isn't the divorce or remarriage that causes behavioral problems, it's the conflict that those situations that can cause behavioral problems. (& I'm sure there are other reasons too)

If there is conflict in an intact marriage, the kids are more likely to have behavioral problems.

If there is conflict in a divorce, the kids are more likely to have behavioral problems.

If there is conflict in a remarriage (either between the new couple, the divorced couple or the ex & new spouse), then the kids are more likely to have behavioral problems.

If the grown ups act like grown ups and don't allow conflict into their children's lives, the children are less likely to have behavioral problems. However, some kids can still have behavioral problems regardless of their situation. Blaming it on divorce or blended families is ridiculous.

If there is no conflict in the first marriage (which would include conflict resulting from adultery) there would be no reason for the divorce to occur.

There is no such thing as divorce without conflict. There is no such thing as blended families without conflict. There is actually no such thing as life without conflict, but divorce and remarriage exacerbate it.

Many behavioral issues are a direct result of divorce and attempts at blending families.

I agree with you to a point TOS, but I will bet that there are plenty of divorced people and blended families living out there without conflict because they are behaving as grown ups and doing what's in the best interest of their children.

And adultery or conflict is not the only reason people get divorced. Some people get married young and grow apart. I have seen 'amicable' divorces where they just agree that they are not happy or that they have changed into wanting different things. It's not always one sided. So I don't necessarily agree that there is no such thing as divorce without conflict. The conflict may occur when only one spouse wants to leave and the other is hurt or angry at being left. Every situation is different and I'm not addressing your particular situation.

If mom and dad are civil to each other, the kids are not going to be affected as much as if they are fighting all the time and dragging each other back to court for every little thing. Sure, they may not like each other, they may even hate each other, but if they put their feelings aside, it's better for their kids to not be a part of that or see them argue or fight. And that includes when one or both of them remarry. If all of the adults are mature enough to put aside their negative feelings in front of the kids, then the kids are going to be better off. (and that also means that even if you act civil to each other, face to face, the actual damage is done when you say negative things in front of your child about the other person, even if that person isn't there to hear it.)

That's just my opinion, you don't have to agree and I see that your opinion is that divorce and blending families causes the problems. I respect that and you are entitled to your opinion.

Our kids learn from watching adults. You can tell your child it is wrong to steal, but if they see you leave the store when a clerk forgot to charge you for something, they will learn that it's ok to take things you haven't paid for. If negative things are said or a negative attitude is shown, that is what the kids pick up on and that is what they are learning to do as well.

I have yet to hear about a divorce that involved neither adultery nor abuse, either physical or substance. I think it is very rare. "Wanting different things" usually means one of them wants the next door neighbor or his/her coworker, as does the "not happy" bull.

Although I agree that going back to court all the time is a waste of time and money, pretending that everything is hunky dory fools no one. It is fine to be civil to each other, but if you think the kids don't know how you really feel, you aren't giving them much credit.

I'll agree it may not be the 'norm' but I've seen several in my job. I only see a very tiny percentage of divorces over all and if I have seen several that were 'amicable' and not due to adultery or abuse, I would disagree that it's VERY rare. I have one couple that is very friendly through their divorce. They both hire me to serve each other, just so it's all done 'legal' because they don't have an attorney.

Many behavioral issues are a result of poor parenting that came well before the divorce and/or remarriage.

The only time in that stretch of time that I determined what a punishment will be was when A__ has made a sexist remark directly to me (I sent him to the bedroom until he was ready to apologize for not treating women with respect), so I'm not making his life horrible. I will uphold rules or rewards/punishments put in place by Mom or Dad, but rarely decide them on my own. Oh - and I have chair removal/replacement authority.

TOS - the reason A__ gets sent to his room for things he says is that he will say horrible deliberately hurtful things at even very little things like "Please put your shoes in the closet so no one trips on them" or "No, you can't have a can of pop tonight. You had your can of pop this afternoon."
When the response to a cheerful "OK kiddo, it's time to get your stuff together to go to soccer. We have to leave in 20 minutes." is a venomous "I hate you! You're the worst dad in the world! I want you to die so you can't be mean to me ever again", he goes to the other room to calm down (because screaming and throwing things often follows next if he's not sent to somewhere quiet to mellow out) and to think about why what he said was the wrong choice.
Different kids have different reactions and different levels, so if your kids are angry with you, remark that they hate you and it gets left at that, then that's fine for you guys.
If it's just grumbling about "You're so mean for always making me take my plate to the sink" or "I hate picking up the Xbox and you're a jerk for making me do it", then I agree with you that it's better just talk about how that wasn't nice and that everyone has to pick up after themselves. When it's malicious shouting, or sexism/racism/classism that's another story for us.

FD - I'm not sure what's elaborate... Occasionally there are two parts (1- Go to the other room to calm down so you're not screaming any more or to think about why what you did was wrong and 2- The actual punishment)... The no dessert and do the dishes alone started off as just "You should be sitting at the table during the meal. I've asked you three times now to stay at the table through the meal, and if you get up again, you're not having any dessert" Then when he spit food on the table (on purpose) and refused to clean it up, doing the dishes on his own was added. Could I ask what you would have done in that situation? How would you have disciplined getting up repeatedly even though he was asked and told not to, followed by spitting food onto the table and belligerently saying "No. I won't. You do it." to his Dad when told to "Go get a dishtowel to clean that up." ?
We know that no popcorn tonight for bugging the cats is a little abstract, but we can't come up with anything directly related to the cats (the only thing my BF thought of was making him clean the litter box for being mean to the cats, but thought that was too extreme) so we stick with popcorn and try to be consistent with it. Any alternate suggestions?
Haha, FD - I got a good-natured chuckle out of your interpretation that his behavior isn't improving! I know it may not sound like it, but he IS getting better! Punishments for bad choices and rewards for good choices is working, believe it or not! I love him very much, but to be honest, how A__ was when I was first getting involved with my BF really made me hesitant to get serious with them. i could tell that A__ has a HUGE heart, and that made me take the chance that he and my BF were worth it! The progress I've seen in A__ over the past year has really been remarkable - my instinct that this bad behavior was remediable and would be worth it was right.
Even five or six months ago, he was going to the other room about 4 times a day and was down to about 30 minutes of Warcraft, for breaking things on purpose (accidents are never punished for of course), for lying at least daily, for dumping his plate upside down onto the table when he was done eating, for screaming malicious things and swearing, for holding the cats upside down by their back legs, for throwing his clothes out the window or in the garbage because he didn't want to get dressed, and so on. The A__ of today is a peach in comparison to the A__ of six or eight months ago!!
I haven't heard him swear in over two months, shouting name-calling fits are down to less than once a day from at least twice, he chases and annoys the cats but is no longer actually mean to them, he complains that he's bored at the table and tries to get up (and spit his food that one time) but his plate has remained upright for five months now, he rarely lies anymore and he'll admit it right away if he does, he'll still spend half an hour getting his socks on but he doesn't throw them out anymore... He doesn't try to sneak things into the cart or run away at the grocery store anymore because when he's good he often gets to choose dessert for that night but he always gets a high five when we get out the door for behaving so well at the store. He (usually) tells us if he has homework now instead of "forgetting" it at Mom's because he often gets to go do cool activities and always gets lots of praise for doing his homework without being asked. If he sees one of us cleaning, he often asks if we'd like his help because he knows that has gotten him 15 extra minutes of Warcraft in the past.

So, yes, he's in trouble a lot, but he's rewarded a lot too! I've really made an effort with my BF about being consistent with him, asking him to do something (like put his socks on) well in advance, asking him to stop something (like using the computer mouse as a lasso) the first time he does it rather than getting angry the third time, telling him what the consequence/reward will be so he can make a better choice, etc. And now instead of more punishments than rewards, A__ gets more rewards than punishments.
It used to be that the second my BF's back was turned, A__ was doing something bad, but now he's not! He's getting better about being good, even when no on is watching him. We "catch" him being good all the time, his behavior keeps improving, and he's getting better about rewarding himself!

A__ being able to self-reward and self-chastise is a big struggle for everyone involved with him. His ADHD prevents him from getting a neurological boost the way that you or I do when we know we do something good and his poor decision-making skills (also a result of his ADHD) make it hard for him to see the right thing to do... But lately, he's been making better choices and telling us what he chose "I thought about ____the-bad-choice____ but instead I did ___the-good-choice___!!!" and we high five and whoop and holler and celebrate with hugs and kisses...
I know this will seem ridiculous to anyone who doesn't know A__, but I almost cried this weekend when he made a good choice all on his own and self-rewarded for it!! Saturday morning, we did our usual routine (he wakes us up when he gets hungry around 8:30, I get him breakfast and go back to bed for a bit while he plays Warcraft, then BF and I get up around 10:30) and once I was up he said "Andguesswhat I got hungry again after breakfast, butguesswhat instead of having cookies that I knew I probably wasn't supposed to have, guesswhat I had the other half of my orange that you told me was in the fridge. Andguesswhat, since no one was up, I high-fived myself for doing what I was supposed to do!"
OMG I was so happy I nearly cried! I think A__ was a little surprised by the extremity of my reaction: a HUGE hug and "A__ that awesome! I'm sooooo happy that you thought about what to eat and chose what you knew you were allowed to have! You did what you should even though no one was there to make you! That's such a great grown-up thing to do! Wow! I'm proud of you kiddo!" followed by more hugs and a high-five. Then when I passed this onto BF, he also came running from the bedroom, pounced on A__ with a hug and said "I'm proud of you A__! Would you like to have a wrestling match??"

So I think what we're doing is working. A__'s behavior keeps getting better and he is always excited to come over, so musn't be too miserable :)

Many behavioral issues are only in the eye of the beholder. When my kids were little, I met several moms who were all upset because their babies didn't go to sleep by themselves or didn't sleep through the night. My babies nursed to sleep virtually every single night until they weaned, and they never slept through the night until around the time they were weaned. The few times I tried to get them to go to sleep without nursing didn't work very well, and I shouldn't have bothered. Since I didn't regard waking up in the middle of the night as a problem, and since I usually nursed them to sleep, what would have been a behavioral problem for some wasn't for us.

Unfortunately, in a blended family all of a sudden patterns of behavior that weren't regarded as a problem sometimes suddenly are a problem for the biological parent's spouse. The new spouse may try to blame it on "poor parenting" when in fact it is merely a different parenting style.

I think it is unfair to the children to change the rules in the middle of the game. I realize that sometimes that is tricky - I wouldn't recommend a family bed if one of the adult occupants is not the biological parent, and if the child is used to a family bed, that change can be devastating (of course the smart thing to do is not to move another adult into the house, especially when the child is still a baby or a toddler). The same thing applies to other customs and rules - if the kids are used to being able to watch tv while they eat (mine were not, btw), they should continue to be allowed to. Unless all parties, including the kids, agree that a custom or rule should be changed, they should remain unchanged as much as possible.

"Unfortunately, in a blended family all of a sudden patterns of behavior that weren't regarded as a problem sometimes suddenly are a problem for the biological parent's spouse. The new spouse may try to blame it on "poor parenting" when in fact it is merely a different parenting style."

I agree. I also think that a third perspective of a situation is valuable too. Isn't that why we seek advice? In Ceph's situation, she may have given her boyfriend some ideas, but A___'s father was the one who ultimately decided that they would be beneficial and implemented them.

"The same thing applies to other customs and rules - if the kids are used to being able to watch tv while they eat (mine were not, btw), they should continue to be allowed to."

So you should never introduce the child to something new? Where's the growth in that?

Those are really good points TOS... I absolutely agree with you that new blendees shouldn't suddenly try to change the rules!
When I first came along my BF was at his wit's end with A__ and dreaded the weekend when A__ would be with him, A__ was usually handed a Ritalin when he walked in the door of Grandma's, BM cried almost every day because of his bad behavior, Papa and A__ fought all the time and my BF's SM tried to buffer it...

About 7ish months ago, my BF cracked and told me that things need to change because he couldn't handle how A__ was... So I helped him. I have made lots of suggestions (many ideas come from the things I see and like or dislike on this board). Any suggestions I've had have been made to my BF and he's chosen whether or not to go along with my idea. Some have been "Yeah! That's a good idea, let's try it" and some have been "No, I know my boy and that won't work for him"...

I can't say for sure how he is with his Mom now, but when he went home to her in a great mood a few months ago and she asked my BF what was different that weekend, he told her some of the changes at his place... And she liked the changes. I don't know if he still makes her cry every day (I don't think it's my business) but I doubt it.
He doesn't fight so much with Papa anymore and SGM has even commented that "I hope how good he's been lately isn't a phase!" So that's fabulous - although the downside is that now they want to spend more time with him, which gives us less time, but oh well.
When we pick him up from Grandma's, he's not always dosed up on Ritalin anymore. When we picked him up for soccer last week he even commented that "Grandma didn't give me a pill yesterday night OR today after school. I must have been being good."

I know that that the better consistency from us is NOT the sole cause of his improvements - I think it's multifactorial and has some complex feedback loops: Ritalin helps him be better behaved at school, which means he has more friends and is learning better social skills, which means he is better with adults too. Consistency from us makes him better behaved with us, but also smarter about exploiting loopholes, so is forcing us to actually determine a fixed set of rules. Determining a fixed set of rules at BF's house (specifically the one about no malicious name-calling shouting fits) is carrying over to Papa's house to help them get along better, which means he's happier when he's over there and gets more positive reinforcement and puts him in a good mood. If he shows up to GM's in a good mood, he's less likely to get a Ritalin and so he has to maintain good behavior without meds and is learning to make better decisions on his own. And so on... So we're just a part of his changes!!

I totally agree TOS - If I had just marched in and said "These are the new rules" that would have been WRONG WRONG WRONG! So, I waited until my BF wanted to change things and have been helping him along. I've certainly made a few pushes in a direction I wanted something to go, but ultimately A__'s rules are not mine to make. Lucky for me, my BF is good about blending what's best for A__ with what's best for us, and making me feel that I play a role too, even though decisions about A__ are not really up to me.

In a perfect world, parent's would know all the answers when the child is born. They would know all they need to know and never make any changes in the way things are done. But this isn't a perfect world.

If you allow your children to eat in front of the TV (or whenever they feel like it or whatever they feel like) but later, realize that they have a weight problem, then it's a logical solution to do something different. As kids grow and change, so do their needs. Older kids might stay up later. Older kids need to bathe more than smaller ones sometimes. Sometimes, the other way around. If the intact family shares a 'family bed', then eventually the day will come when the kids are too old to sleep in a 'family bed' or if the parents divorce, there is going to be changes.

Sometimes it is 'poor parenting' when kids have behavioral problems. When my kids have behavioral problems, it is because I'm not doing something that I should or something I'm doing isn't working.... it's time to try something different. Some of my SD's behavioral problems are directly related to 'poor parenting' on both her mom and her dad's side. It's not an issue of step parent vs. bio parent and nobody should be blaming one side or the other. We all make mistakes, unless someone is 'perfect'.

Anyone have a thought on this situation?:

My SD's mom picked her up for a weekend. She took SD to her half sister's tae kwon do tournament. While she was there, SD went into an office and used the phone to dial 911. We got a call from BM to tell DH how upset she was that SD called 911. The police had gotten on her case because nobody was watching SD when this happened. BM wanted us to punish her when she came home. She saw this as a behavioral problem with SD that she wanted US to take care of.

The next day, we picked up SD from her grandma's house. BM had already left her to go back to her BF's house. SD didn't want to talk about the 911 incident. I made an appointment with her counselor and when I took her the next day, I stayed and talked to SD with the counselor. She was shocked that I figured out that she was upset because her mom had taken her to the tae kwon do tournament for her sister. The underlying problem is that before BM left her kids for the new BF, all three of them were in tae kwon do. When SD came to live with us, she was taken out of tae kwon do (because her studio is an hour away). Even though we have her in karate here, she was upset that her sister is still going to the studio where they went with their mom. Then on the day of the tournament, mom was paying more attention to her sister and she felt left out. So she decided to get attention by calling 911. Her mom considers her behavior as a problem, but she fails to see that her child is crying out for help and attention. When DH told BM what happened at the counselor's, BM's answer has been consistently that all the problems are related to ADHD and her daughter needs to be on medication to calm her down. Isn't that 'poor parenting'?

btw, she has since stopped going to see her other daughter and for the past couple of months, only see's SD. We're not sure why or if that's her solution.

I see both sides again - I think it could be construed as a "behavioral problem" that SD called 911 because Mom was busy with Sis instead of paying attention to her, but I doubt that calling 911 was her first step at getting attention, so I can also construe it as "bad parenting"

From the sounds of what you've said about your SD, it doesn't sound to me like ADHD... I've never met her, and I'm not trained to diagnose neurological disorders, but I've never thought "whoa, sounds like ADHD!" when you've talked about her troubles.
Everything you've about her sounds to me like she feels unwanted and isn't sure how to make herself feel wanted and who is appropriate to feel wanted by... So she makes bad choices about who is appropriate and how to get the attention she craves.
In this case, I think the bad choice about "who" is that she couldn't get her mom's attention so chose the police (maybe Grandma or Dad would have been better choices?), and the bad choice about "how" is to do something so drastic (not that I advocate tantrums, but ANYTHING direct to get Mom's attention would be better than calling 911)... My instinct on this (if it were A__ or one of my N&Ns) would be to talk about why those weren't good choices and let's think of a better solution together. Depending on the situation, that might involve thinking about it on their own for awhile, it might not.

A 911 incident with A__ from a few years back: BM went to the building laundry room or to get the mail (I'm not sure which it was, so I'll use both in the story). She told A__ "I'm going to change the laundry so I'll be down the hall. I'll be back in the apartment in a few minutes. Will you be OK?" He said he'd be fine but must not have been listening to what she actually said. When she got back two minutes later, he was SOBBING on the phone with 911 that his mom was gone and he was alone, she talked to them "I was down the hall to get the mail and I told him I was going, but he must not have listened, he's OK and he's not by himself".
I asked my BF how she dealt with this and her solution was to calm A__ down, and explain that 911 is for emergencies like if someone is badly hurt or there is a stranger in the house. Then she asked him to think about who a better person to call might be and they came up with Grandma, Dad and Papa before 911. He didn't get in trouble for it (and he shouldn't have) but he had to think about the better choices.

"When she got back two minutes later, he was SOBBING on the phone with 911 that his mom was gone"

Now that sounds like someone with an executive functioning disorder (common with ADD as well as with other LD's). Also, has he been checked for an auditory processing disorder? Sometimes kids with APD are misdiagnosed as having ADD - and of course it is possible to have both.

"Unfortunately, in a blended family all of a sudden patterns of behavior that weren't regarded as a problem sometimes suddenly are a problem for the biological parent's spouse. The new spouse may try to blame it on "poor parenting" when in fact it is merely a different parenting style."

This is the problem that biomom and her husband of 1.5 years is having (more to come on that in a new post.) We have questioned and stressed about mom's parenting style (or lack of one) for years, but any time a discussion was had it went badly. Enter her new hubby who says "whoa - wait a minute. I don't think this is how things are supposed to go" and voices concerns similar to those we have been saying for years. All of a sudden mom *gets it* and sees that things need to change (resulting in the big pow wow with us) But now there is a whole new parenting style going on - one similar to what we have always done, but completely different than what mom did pre-husband. Now she wonders why (after 2 weeks) everything isn't rosey and their family isn't functioning just like ours.

I'm not sure what all he's been tested for...
But he was about 4 at the time and playing a video game, so I just chalked it up to that 4 year olds have big and sudden emotions, on top of that he wasn't listening (due to the video game)
He also has some pretty huge fears of abandonment (probably largely due to being constantly bounced between different houses) that make him really anxious when he doesn't know where someone is or when they will be back. So he was probably more panicked about that than another 4 yo may have been in the situation.

I wouldn't doubt that he has some sort of comorbities with his ADHD, but he hasn't been diagnosed with anything.
A__ is most definitely ADHD - there is NO mistaking this diagnosis - but you may be right TOS, he could have something else undiagnosed with it. (I've sometimes thought he might have some mild Oppositional Defiance Disorder, but those behaviors seems to be improving, so maybe that was just a rough patch?)

How's the progress at making SD feel like she belongs? What have you decided to do?
I'd love an update!