@coloradomomof5:

I have the solution to your problem: stay in your home. Obviously it's been built and decorated to you and your family's taste. It has ample room for your large family. With five children, in the coming years, you will have many grandchildren - a large home with plenty of outdoor space is ideal for family get togethers, something many people do not have.

Forget about trying to please all of us people who have expressed critical (not personal to you) comments about the home - it's your home - you don't have to please us, or the idea of what some airhead realtor thinks.

Times have changed with the continuing recession. Many people have been foreclosed, evicted, underwater, upsidedown - property values are a myth. You just can't expect growth or liquidity the way it once was.

Enjoy your home and decide to live in it for the next 20 years!

@graywings: "Keep posting Doug. The more you write, the more I understand you."

Well you needn't keep writing, since it's obvious that since you can't respond to the main point.
@graywings: "what's the point of enjoying nature's beauty."

You're not smart enough to turn around my arguement/statement by attempting to misconstrue the context of what I wrote.

@weedyacres: As for the credibility of your opinions:

The US housing market didn't collapse because of a couple of greedy banks, dishonest appraisers, opportunistic title companies, or a few shady realtors. Rather is was a mega scale corruption of the highest degree.

I don't know if you are a Realtor, but you and your industry is responsible for robbing the American people out of $7,000,000,000,000 - TRILLION!! dollars in assets from the value of their homes. They just kept pumping up the appreciation, accepting NIJA loans, LIAR loans, Zero down loans, interest only loans, anything to turn a commission. Then the bubble burst - but nobody was at fault.

Realtors are nothing - they aren't lawyers, they aren't financial people, they aren't appraisers, nor are they abstracter's. They are salesmen. That's it. I don't believe salesman talk. It's worth nothing - zip - nada.

So you're going to give me a lecture about 'comparables' - ha - this is the same BS that your lot has been peddling before. Well this has 5 bedrooms, oh no - you can't call this a bedroom - but you can.. let's move the furniture here.. nothing but BS. The problem is that people haven't used their own good judgment to determine what homes are worth. Your lot has worked to create this artificial, confusing reality, just so you have a job.

So shut up yourself, along with all your other OP and other phony realtor abbreviations.

I'm the guy who designed much of the property recording software, and componets of the MERS system. I've found the entire industry to be rotten!

Wow, what venom. BTW-weedy is not a Realtor.

OP is a common abbreviation found on numerous forums. It means Original Poster.

Yes, I was a Realtor. Not one person whom I helped purchase a home has gone into foreclosure. Maybe I quit because I wasn't a greedy salesperson or maybe I quit because I wanted to return to a career that used my educational background.

No matter, a single profession is not responsible for the real estate collapse. It took many "partners in crime" including MERS. I suppose you are also taking your share of the blame as one that participated in the creation of MERS?

I don't know if you are a Realtor, but you and your industry...

ROTFL...doug, you're obviously new to this forum or you'd see the humor in this ironic comment. Scroll through the threads and read some of my postings if you want to know who I really am.

That is what I thought, weedy! :)

@rrah: "Yes, I was a Realtor. Not one person whom I helped purchase a home has gone into foreclosure."

I bet they lost 25% - 30% of their asset value. Over 25% of the homes in the US are underwater!

@rrah: "Maybe I quit because I wasn't a greedy salesperson or maybe I quit because I wanted to return to a career that used my educational background."

Are you telling me you don't know why you quit? It's my guess is that you couldn't sell anymore homes after the depression caused by the Real Estate industry.

@rrhs: "No matter, a single profession is not responsible for the real estate collapse. It took many "partners in crime" including MERS."

I named them in my post - It doesn't seem like you read for comprehension.

@rrhs: "I suppose you are also taking your share of the blame as one that participated in the creation of MERS?"

I'm a computer scientist - I build to 'spec'. MERS didn't happen overnight. What once seemed logical in 1990 was turned into a monster in the late 90's.

Look it's 2012 - and some clown realtor was telling ColoradoMomOf5 that she could get $700k for her home - when 30 months later she can't get $525k. And it seems the clowns keep bringing in the prospects - just like before the bubble. Have the realtors (collectively) learned anything?

"I bet they lost 25% - 30% of their asset value. Over 25% of the homes in the US are underwater!"

Real estate is local. I live in a location that did not see value declines and saw very modest increases. These increases were modest enough that many were are able to sell their homes without taking a financial hit even after just 2-3 years. No, my former clients are not underwater. So you are wrong.

Perhaps you need to read for the nuances of language. I know exactly why I quit, and it's not the business of you or others.

"I'm a computer scientist - I build to 'spec'. MERS didn't happen overnight. What once seemed logical in 1990 was turned into a monster in the late 90's."

The men that built Hitler's gas chambers also built to spec as did the scientists that built atomic bombs. Shall I go on with further examples of building to spec gone wrong? I suppose those men also bear no moral or ethical responsibility just as you can bear no moral or ethical responsibility?

Sassafras, an HOA can be very valuable in this setting, within reason. A 5 acre lot is not all that large and does not put you that far away from your neighbors. Many people have different ideas of what they want to do on a rural property. HOAs can help to restrict people from having too many horses within the subdivision, or as recently happened in my subdivision, somebody moved in and made a dirt bike track. Lots of noise and lots of dust. A HOA can also be a way of collecting the money necessary for road maintenance including snow removal. The subdivision I live in does not have an HOA, just covenants and is supposed to maintain a road maintenance committee. Basically, people contribute to the road fund based on their own whims and nobody has the power or will to try to force the other homeowners to participate. It is what it is.

Chispa, that was my first thought--- to tell the OP that a spiral staircase doesn't add value, it detracts from value.

I am surprised that the house is only seven years old as it looks at least twice that, judging from the dated interiors. And it is easier for a smaller house to get by with less detail. A large house with minimal detail (particularly molding and trim work, especially the windows) and a plan that looks as though it was simply expanded from a smaller blueprint without thought to the proportions, odd fireplaces, etc. added to the disastrous HOA problems...... I'm sorry but it sounds like you actually might have to give it away.

You don't mention what your actual costs were in building the house. Building in 2005 you would have paid top dollar, and surely do not expect the house to have gone up in value since then, especially if foreclosures are keeping downward pressure on prices. Depending on the size of the loan, some mortgage lenders won't lend on a house in a subdivision where there is an incidence of foreclosure of 20% or more and that could be yet another problem.

"HOAs can help to restrict people from having too many horses within the subdivision,"

Many couties have laws mandating 'acres per horse' limits.

"or as recently happened in my subdivision, somebody moved in and made a dirt bike track. Lots of noise and lots of dust."

So can county laws and zoning.

"A HOA can also be a way of collecting the money necessary for road maintenance including snow removal."

Only if the roads are private in most places.
You get to pay, and pay, and pay for those roads.

county laws and zoning at least get the HOA out of the enforcement business.

You already pay taxes, let them do some work instead of paying again to an HOA.

The landscaping is lovely and appropriate for CO.

It sounds like your HOA is a problem, I'm not sure what the solution there is. Most communities in CO are covenant controlled, which I personally like, but there must be a mechanism for voting a board out. The "loyalty" pledge is creepy.

Yes brickeye, the county and zoning can take care of that but it often depends on the county and their appetite for doing that. In our subdivision, the road is not wide enough to be maintained by the county, a rather common thing in our area. The roads are dirt. The nice thing is that we maintain them better than the county would.

The county I am in is rather stringent on rules but their enforcement in my area is lax (too far away from the city of Santa Fe). The problem about enforcement whether it be HOA or government, is that there is little agreement on what is deemed desirable. I think that HOAs can help in that regard if people would treat them as a method of agreeing on the rules they desire for their community but would also seriously evaluate those rules before purchasing a home under them. Generally though it becomes a test of wills with people proclaiming that they do not like to be told what they can do on their own property. I certainly wish I had an answer to the situation.

Doug...you are really a charmer. I live in CO, have HOAs and I'm perfectly happy with them. Most are reasonable, but you make insane generalizations.

Your assessment of the real estate market is so obviously flawed. Realtors followed existing laws and practices, and in many cases got into the same situations their clients did.

I have family in MA, NY and NJ, none of whom have HOAs and in some cases have eyesore properties or out of control noisy or rude neighbors next door. In one case the relative owns the eyesore property.

@gmp3: "Doug...you are really a charmer"

Thanks!

@gmp3: "but you make insane generalizations"

Please state what you disagree with and why.

@gmp3: "Your assessment of the real estate market is so obviously flawed."

Here again - what do you disagree with and why?

@gmp3: "none of whom have HOAs and in some cases have eyesore properties or out of control noisy or rude neighbors next door"

There are tons of laws regulating behavior on the County / City level. You need another layer?

Are you hoping for a 'sanitized' life? I don't know if any HOA has a 'rudeness' clause?

@rahh: It's really a moot point. Our current government - dems or repubs are only interested in maintaining the status-quo, for their own power and the power of the other 500 or so people who actually run this country.

Check this out: The End of Suburbia.

Keep an open mind - this is not some nutcase, EOTW talk.

The modern suburbs have ultimately become an unsustainable way of living. They were originally developed in an era of cheap oil, when the automobile became the center of the way people lived and an era when people wanted to escape the inner city to a more pastoral or rural way of life. However the suburbs quickly evolved into a merely a place to live that had neither the benefits of rural or urban life, and where one was reliant on an automobile both to travel elsewhere and even travel within the neighborhood. The suburbs are not only dependent upon cheap energy, but also reliable energy. The reliability of energy is becoming less so as demonstrated by the multi-day blackout of the North American Eastern Seaboard starting on August 14, 2003. Part of the problem of getting out of the suburban mentality is that a generation has grown up believing it to be a normal way of life, and a life of entitlement...

And it's just not suburbia - look at what Sandy did to NJ, NY. The residents are 'demanding' whatever. FEMA can't even take care of an event that involves less than 1% of our population.

It's comming - the status quo is going to change.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-end-of-suburbia/

The US housing market didn't collapse because of a couple of greedy banks, dishonest appraisers, opportunistic title companies, or a few shady realtors. Rather is was a mega scale corruption of the highest degree.

I don't know if you are a Realtor, but the industry is responsible for robbing the American people out of $7,000,000,000,000 - TRILLION!! dollars in assets from the value of their homes. They just kept pumping up the appreciation, accepting NIJA loans, LIAR loans, Zero down loans, interest only loans, anything to turn a commission. Then the bubble burst - but nobody was at fault.

Realtors are nothing - they aren't lawyers, they aren't financial people, they aren't appraisers, nor are they abstracter's. They are salesmen. That's it. I don't believe salesman talk. It's worth nothing - zip - nada.

I'm a computer scientist - I build to 'spec'. MERS didn't happen overnight. What once seemed logical in 1990 was turned into a monster in the late 90's."

I pray that Doug keeps posting! I think he is entirely correct about the nature of the real estate industry and why the real estate market crashed.

I also hope he shares more specific examples of how those in the industry play their clients.

Nice house, decor could be pretty easily staged to appeal to a wider audience, but the HOA? Eek.

Good luck!

@dreamgarden: Here is an excerpt from Charles Hugh Smith (economist / author)

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct12/artificial-economy10-12.html

The housing market has essentially been socialized, with the taxpayers now funding the entire mortgage market (98% of mortgages are backed by Federal agencies) and endless subsidies of marginal buyers (3% down payment loans, etc.)

The Federal Reserve has committed itself to taking trillions of dollars of impaired or dodgy mortgages off the balance sheets of banks and burying them in its own opaque balance sheet, while also maintaining near-zero interest rates (when adjusted for inflation) to incentivize refinancing and home buying--both of which generate billions of dollars in fat fees for banks.

All this artifice has created an artificial economy on multiple levels. The entire bond market is artificial, the entire stock market is artificial, and the entire housing market is artificial.

One of the more striking quotes I've read recently was buried in a report chronicling the effects of the housing bust on Nevada. The quote was by a woman who had stopped paying her mortgage three years ago and had been living rent/mortgage-free in the house courtesy of the bank, which had declined to even begin the foreclosure process.

Harris, 38, stopped paying her mortgage three years ago after her accounting business lost its biggest client and her home�s value plummeted 52 percent. Some neighbors are also delinquent on their mortgages. "There are so many people like me who aren�t paying their mortgage so they can buy groceries and gas," said Harris, who was rejected for loan modification programs. "It�s creating this whole false economy."

This is an astonishing statement on several levels. That people can only afford to keep afloat if their housing is free reflects an extreme of financial fragility. That the banks are willing to pay property taxes and receive zero income for 3+ years reflects the banks' dedication to restricting the inventory of unsold homes so prices will be forced higher as supply drops below demand.

This strategy, no doubt orchestrated with quasi-official approval, has already paid handsome dividends, as beaten-down markets such as Phoenix have seen sharp increases in home values this year as the number of foreclosed homes entering the market has dwindled. This artificial restriction of inventory by lenders has been well-documented; not only are there millions of homes in the foreclosure pipeline that are not being moved onto the marketplace, there are at least (by some estimates) another 4 million in-default homes that are being held out of the pipeline entirely; this is the "shadow inventory," the inventory that is not even recognized as being in default despite 3+ years of non-payment.

This is a risky game the banks are playing, as this visibly artificial restriction of inventory undermines the belief that this recent surge in home valuations is legitimate, i.e. a balancing of actual supply and demand. Sqeezing inventory does not magically enlarge the pool of qualified home buyers; it "games the system" so those buyers are paying more for the homes that they would otherwise be worth if the market weren't being manipulated. This helps banks by raising the prices they're getting for the few foreclosed properties that reach the market, but it certainly doesn't help buyers.

This strategy is betting that the gains reaped by selling REOs ("real estate owned," i.e. houses the banks own) at higher prices more than offset the losses generated by paying the costs of non-performing loans--property taxes, for example--and the decline in income as homeowners stop making mortage payments.

The real estate industry and the banks are hoping that the increase in housing prices caused by the restriction of inventory will spark a new rush into real estate as people start believing "the bottom is in." But this is based on the expectation that there is pool of potential buyers who are only waiting for the bottom to be identified to jump in and buy a house.

The irony is that restricting inventory keeps prices high, limiting the number of people who qualify for large mortages. Given that incomes of the lower 95% of households have been declining for four years, the foundation of borrowing is crumbling. The Fed has attempted to increase leverage by lowering mortgage rates to 3.5%, barely above official inflation, while relieving banks of impaired mortgages by buying $1 trillion of mortgage-backed securities in 2009-10 and now another $500 billion over the next year.

The idea here is that maintaining an artificial market and reality will somehow magically transform a broken system into a self-healing one. Stated in this transparent fashion, the absurdity of the Status Quo's primary policy is clearly revealed.

Dysfunctional families, enterprises, markets and governing Elites all share this same dilemma: you cannot fix an unhealthy, dysfunctional system by hiding reality behind an artificial reality facade. All you're doing is increasing the instability of the system, which is not allowed to self-correct.

I think it best to ignore some posters, the ones who like to argue will find another playground.

YKWIM??

I'm sorry you are having such problems selling your house. It looks like a perfectly nice home, very neat and well kept. I don't see that removing the valances or changing the decor is going to make that much difference.

From looking at the other posts of Colorado mom it seems they have neighbors from hell, perhaps that is why she wants to get out of there.

I think you should have another appraisal done, you are probably going to have to lower the price some more.

About the OP's outdated decor, I think I know why, by putting 2 and 2 together:
!. She lives near Colorado Springs.
2. She haves 5 (!) kids.
3. She home schools (or, if you like, home fools) her kids, thus keeping herself out of the adult work force.

We are not dealing with a sophisticated person, here.

Eggshell finish...what in the world would make anyone attack the OP about her decor choices or lifestyle out of the blue. You are a very hate filled person. There is nothing constructive about your post, but typical of someone as judgmental as you seem to be.

I suppose you consider attacking strangers out of the blue for making different lifestyle choices than you have "sophisticated"?

This thread is the most nasty, bitter thread I've ever read on Gardenweb.

This thread is the most nasty, bitter thread I've ever read on Gardenweb.

I agree with this.

CMof5, if you are out there, don't despair, there is a buyer out there. Ignore the nastiness, concentrate on what will work.

Having 5 kids makes someone not sophisticated? Uh, ok.

@cmarlin20: "I think it best to ignore some posters, the ones who like to argue will find another playground."

The opinions on this thread were mostly the Status Quo: Get another appraisial, rearrage the furniture, put up crown molding, stage the home....

The fact of the matter is that none of the opinions really considered what is going on in the US. We are still in a depression - the stats have been adjusted so we sweak by.

But really, 25,000,000 people are not in the work force, as they were in 2007. The real U6 unemployment is 18%. 3.1 million people have been added to 'SSI disability' rolls, 47% of the people in the US are on SNAP (food stamps). 44% of the child births are paid for by Medicaid. The employees' FICA contribution has been reduced by 50% - to stimulate the economy - which leaves SS billions of dollars in the hole.

So the poster's on here are talking about 'comparables'. One gal told me ALL her clients had their properties appreciate.

The talk of housing prices on this forum is just a fantasy - where the posters think the Status Quo is going to continue to infinity. Explore the real financial problems: The Federal Reserve buys 75% of the T-Bills issued by the US Gov - that's right - we finance our own debt - this is called printing money (fiat currency), this is the source of inflation.

The US has instutionalized lying and corruption. You needn't dig very deep. The former gov of NJ, Corzine, was president of MF Global - they 'lost' over a billion dollars in investors deposit accounts (cash - not invested). After a year long investigation the US Dept of Justice decided that 'nobody was to blame' - but if you want you can sue Corzine in civil court.

When an entire industry ( Financial / Real Estate ) is a scam - all logic breaks down.

@eggshellfinish: "She home schools (or, if you like, home fools) her kids, thus keeping herself out of the adult work force. "

So I'll ask you: What's so great about two people working at 'wage jobs?'

You warehouse your kids in daycare - let some stranger give them the values and key siganals, rather than you and your husband?

You both work your a**es off, are exhausted on Friday, and then do grocery shopping, meal prep, house work on the weekends.

Then you send your children to 'government schools' where they learn to sit on their a**es, keep their mouths shut, so they can work in a cube farm. The teachers are more concerned about the union and their full retirement at 55, than the children.

Government school has been turned into an indoctrination camp.

Never mind that the SAT scores have remained the same for the last 40 years, even though we've spent 3 times as much money (adjusted for inflation).

People who home school are not all religious nuts. Rather they are independent thinkers. It doesn't take an Einstien to teach children.

In summary, I live in Minneapolis. We spend $21,000 a year/pupil - where only 45% of the children graduate from HS.

deleted my own post

This post was edited by cas66ragtop on Wed, Dec 5, 12 at 11:36

tishtoshnm, I know what an HOA is! Thanks for the lesson anyhow. I was more wondering about the school situation and commenting on the lawsuit issue. Admittedly I am not a fan of HOA and would not purchase a home with one, no matter the size of the property, or the wonderful advantages they offer to a homeowner who needs rules and such. I like being able to paint my door whatever color I want, and no one cares if I plant an acre of corn or if I don't put my car in the garage :)

" I like being able to paint my door whatever color I want, and no one cares if I plant an acre of corn or if I don't put my car in the garage :)"

??
I live in a HOA community, and NONE of those things are in our covenants.
Not all HOAs are the same!

@cas66ragtop: "Nobody is interested in a bunch of stuff written by some author. So either keep that to yourself, or just reference the book and leave it at that. If someone actually wants to look it up, they can. I read the first couple sentences, rolled my eyes, and then quickly went down to the next post. I suspect others did the same thing. Was that rude of me to say that? Probably - but I am being honest about it."

This is the entire problem: "Nobody is interested in a bunch of stuff "

You don't have to believe me, nor my sources. You can find your own. However you are a good example of the 'problem'. In a recent speech Putin said Obama was elected by the illiterate.

The problem is that you have taken no time to become informed of the real problems facing the US and the world.

UNDERSTAND the Status Quo - what this means is that everything you assume (from your post - it looks like you assume alot) will continue on - to infinity - with little or no changes.

@cas66ragtop: "If someone actually wants to look it up, they can. I read the first couple sentences, rolled my eyes, and then quickly went down to the next post."

This behavior is called ignorance. Forget the facts - I'm going to assume everything is going to continue just like I imagine it to be.

Good luck.

Oh my. I'm glad this thread is going to lock up in another 20 posts. Here's my contribution to reduce that to 19.

I think one of the new improvements to the GW system is to increase the post count of threads. :)

deleted my own post

This post was edited by cas66ragtop on Wed, Dec 5, 12 at 11:39

By definition, the instigator in this thread is not a true troll but he is certainly acting like one. You know the advice about trolls ...

"What does politics have to do with selling a house?"

More than you realize. Doug has expanded the conversation well beyond useful parameters (IMO) but many of his points are valid. Our housing market has become socialized, no doubt about it. Once the home building industry was protected with government subsidized loans for the initial purchase and tax deductions for continued ownership---- to protect lenders from the free market consequences of poor decisions---- the entire enterprise was doomed to failure. It's been a long time coming, at least 25 years, accelerated in the past 10 years by the dearth of qualified buyers that prompted banks and builders to give mortgages to people who couldn't possibly pay them back. All these factors inform the housing market and affect every buyer and seller, regardless of locale.

Unfortunately for the poster in Colorado, her situation is a complicated mess of local conditions, the house itself and the larger national housing market crisis.

"What does politics have to do with selling a house?"

In this particular case, everything!

Sass, I am sorry, I meant no offense. I took the question as one of a sort of somebody wondering why on earth somebody would move to a rural area and willing subject themselves to an HOA. I know many people who view rural/semirural living as this bucolic, romantic existence but it just has a different set of potential issues than city living.

I am amazed. I consider to gals to be above average intelligence, education, and socio-economic class.

We don't live in a vacuum, yet many here pretend that they do.

cas66ragtop writes: "Nobody is interested in a bunch of stuff written by some author. So either keep that to yourself, or just reference the book and leave it at that."

Weedyacres writes: "I'm glad this thread is going to lock up in another 20 posts."

cas66ragtop continues: "but I do have a problem with plaigerism. What you're posting aren't neccessarily facts anyway - it's just someone else's opinion," "What does politics have to do with selling a house?"

dee writes: "the instigator in this thread is not a true troll but he is certainly acting like one."

This world is rapidly changing - and we are part of the world. Here's some stats that are right from the Federal government and the BLS you can easily Google them:

50% of the people don't pay any Federal income tax - they aren't going to buy homes.

47% of the people are on SNAP (food stamps) - they aren't going to buy homes.

There are 25,000,000 less people in the work force than 2007 ( yet they are not counted as unemployed) - they are not going to buy homes.

3,100,000 people have been added to the SS disability rolls since 2008 - they aren't going to buy homes.

44% of the children born in the US are paid for by Medicaid.

25% of the jobs in the US pay $10/hr or less - they are not going to buy homes.

The average middle class family has seen their income drop by $4,000/yr.

50% of the recent college graduates are unemployed or grossly underemployed - many grads have $50k - $100k in student loan debt - how are they going to afford a home?
The US debt is $16 trillion dollars - 40% of our tax dollars to paying just the interest. That's about $52,000 for each person in the US!

US home owners have lost $7 trillion in home equity - how are they going to sell / purchase another home for more than the value of their now depreciated home?

Maybe the ColoradoMomOf5's home is depreciated in value - maybe the view isn't worth what it once was, surly the roof is aging, as is the physical plant (heat, a/c, appliances), the carpet is worn, etc, etc. So maybe it's only worth $350k?

Obviously the professional appraiser whose valuation was $700k, and now we're down to $500k - has been shown to be off by atleast 30%. But no - that was a 'bad' apprasiser?

The Status Quo is going to change - this isn't Peter Pan - and globalization and financial markets are a big part of your life - even though you want to pretend that everything is going to continue just like it was ad infinitum.

Doug, I share the same concerns about the economy, economic demographics and housing market you do, however, the OPs real problem seems to be her HOA. If homes in nearby subdivisions are selling, then realtors are steering clear of her area.

In suburban Denver where I live the housing in the 300-580K market is booming, inventory is low and homes are going in a few days provided they are priced well (not low or high) and don't have some huge issue, i.e., backing a busy road. Three friends downsized from homes in the 400-520K market and sold in hours to days, another took about 4 weeks and but didn't have yard signs and only allowed limited showings. All were looking to downsize to the 300-400 range and all had problems finding homes suitable due to lack of inventory and a "hot" market, one ended up renting, the other two took on homes that need renovating because there was nothing else available.

I think the HOA has made the OPs home unattractive to buyers, which is exactly the opposite of what an HOA should do. Regardless of personal opinions of HOAs, HOAs are typically formed to protect owners from having property devalued due to the choices of one owner. They are quite popular in some areas, and that makes me believe they are attractive to most buyers, or they wouldn't exist in most newer developments. I wonder why the owners in the subdivision don't seek redress from the board.

Thank you gmp3! for bringing this topic back to the OPs question!

"I wonder why the owners in the subdivision don't seek redress from the board."

Where would that money come from? Because HOAs are funded by the community that would be asking for redress, I'm not sure they'd really be ahead. Unless, and only if, the board was grossly negligent or they could have some sort of insurance claim. But, in reality, I think that will just put the HOA community further in the hole.

Perhaps they could dissolve the HOA entirely, and let this be a neighborhood without an HOA. But, presumably, they had one for a reason...

In my area HOAs aren't so much popular as necessary due to the way the city requires certain common areas and water retention, etc in these squishy neighborhoods. This would not be the case in a neighborhood made up of 5 acre parcels, however.

Kirkhall, I suppose the problem is that you can't fight city hall. However, if a number of homeowners could prove actions of the board caused a price drop within the neighborhood...

How are the board members chosen? How are they repeatedly elected if they sue homeowners and loose. If they won these suits then it would be lawsuits upholding covenants, correct?

"I am amazed. I consider to gals to be above average intelligence, education, and socio-economic class.

We don't live in a vacuum, yet many here pretend that they do.

cas66ragtop writes: "Nobody is interested in a bunch of stuff written by some author. So either keep that to yourself, or just reference the book and leave it at that."

Weedyacres writes: "I'm glad this thread is going to lock up in another 20 posts."

cas66ragtop continues: "but I do have a problem with plaigerism. What you're posting aren't neccessarily facts anyway - it's just someone else's opinion," "What does politics have to do with selling a house?"

dee writes: "the instigator in this thread is not a true troll but he is certainly acting like one.""

Excellent post Doug. You points about the corruptibility of the real estate industry fall right into line with the crap that many HOA's pull on homeowners.

This thread would be alot more fun if some of the folks here could put on their big girl panties and address your message(s) instead of calling you names.

If you were in OP's shoes, what would you do?

"If you were in OP's shoes, what would you do?"

Suck it up and stay put in a pretty comfortable house that seems to meet all of the family needs except for having nice neighbors. Then encourage the kids to make friends in a bowling league or other social activity.

Or, if the finances can handle the loss, drop the price to 300K and see if there are any nibbles at all. If the "want" to move is greater than the "need" to save money, then that's the right choice. The HOA is a permanant albatross that they either have to stay and live with, or take the financial cut that it will take to move somewhere else. Nothing else will sell that home but a LOT of money off.

Doug - the trends you talk about in terms of decreasing buying power, shrinking middle class, etc are real and truly disconcerting. The slightly paranoid side of me made sure I purchased a home that could, if needed, be a mini homestead (enough space and the right light exposure to grow veggies and raise chickens).

It's simplistic, because if the economy really does fall completely apart I can't farm my way to prosperity on a mortgaged piece of land.

In my local market inventory is tight for homes at or slightly below the median because the available homes have some perceived flaw (too close to the highway, schoolyard, train tracks, busy road, other houses). Or they need significant work. Homes in good condition and good locations are quickly purchased if the price is fair. People are justifiably SO afraid of a house losing value that they are unwilling to purchase something with a flaw because they fear being unable to sell in the future. It actually makes sense, but it makes it almost impossible to sell property that is flawed - even for fire sale prices.

There is excess inventory at the high end, homes in the top quartile are very slow to move and people aren't listing unless they absolutely have to. This is one reason that we decided to remodel earlier this year instead of move (it was a big remodel, moving could have been less if what we wanted was available)..

Now, back to this issue of potential buyers being leery of homes with flaws ... I think that is what is holding back the sale of this house. There are probably buyers who look at it and, when they see the HOA issues, think to themselves, "Gee, even if the HOA issues are fixed, how long will this taint the value of the home? How many years until the stigma falls away? What if I had to sell in that time?" Buyers can't commit to this house on a long term basis because everything about this economy feels SO unstable right now.

Is there a shortage of rental property (SFH) in your area? Because that was the other thing we looked at when we bought. I would have preferred to rent but we have a dog and SFH rentals are almost impossible to find in our area for under $3k/mo. With taxes and insurance, our 15 yr mortgage is under $2500/mo ... So, worst case we could rent this place if we had to move out and we would likely cover the mortgage with the rent (or come close to it).

I wonder if renting is an option for the OP? I know it's an expensive home, but still ... It may be an option, unless the HOA forbids it.

I sincerely hope nobody believes Doug's numbers or assumptions without Googling themselves, because personally I can't even find the blogpost or opinion page where he got them.

Let's take the 2nd one - I googled "percentage of people on food stamps" and find that the answer is 15% of households, which I doubt is 47% of people.

Even if you don't want to check for yourself, please don't copy & paste anywhere that will allow it to promulgate forever and ever. (Take the recent Facebook copyright hoax under consideration).

Thank you. Off my soapbox now.

And how many posts does GW allow now?

deleted my own post

This post was edited by cas66ragtop on Wed, Dec 5, 12 at 11:37

Doug, let's take one of the "facts" you posted: 47% percent of the people receive SNAP. Wrong.

According to USDA, it's 47 million, not 47 percent. Big difference, huh? Let's see, 47 million out of 312 million, that's 15% percent -- a third of your claim. Not great, but nowhere near where you claim it to be.

How about your other "facts"? How accurate are those?

Mary is correct that some of Doug's "facts" are not accurate. Just as importantly, the context in which he presents them is misleading as well. For instance, 47 million people ( not percentage) are on food stamps, about 40 pct (not 44) of children's births are paid for by Medicaid, and about 25 pct of jobs pay close to minimum wage.

Even once Doug's statistics are corrected, he makes the common error of listing them as if they were cumulative. They're not cumulative, but in fact they largely overlap. People in minimum wage jobs are often on food stamps, and have children on Medicaid. Look at many Walmart workers - many of their workers fit this profile. They are the working poor and chances are pretty low that they will buy homes.

The 47 pct of people who pay no federal income tax include a lot of these same people. Then for this group we add in senior citizens , many of whom worked, earned salaries and paid taxes their whole lives until they reach their 70's when their incomes go down and their adjusted taxable incomes from savings and soc sec drops them below the federal tax cut-offs. (Although of course, like my own mother, they may pay no federal tax, but she paid a,whopping 75 pct of her income in state and local taxes - not exactly escaping paying for her share of the community burden). This group is not apt to buy homes, but they never were, so that's not a big change at all.

Our country has many problems and our housing industry has been at the forefront of some of those serious problems. However we will be most constructive if we look at actual problems with some basic integrity and adherence to facts in context.

As for the OP, I agree with so many others who think you have a wonderful house in a wonderful setting but unfortunately I also agree you probably should wait out selling the house for at least a year or two more.

This post was edited by hayden2 on Mon, Dec 3, 12 at 8:54

In our industry that produces serious software engineering work that meets domestic and international guidelines and standards, we do not use the title "computer scientist" lightly unless a person who is directing graduate students in universities, or working in a "think tank" performing cutting edge research in computer science.

Doug, since you claimed you are a "computer scientist", you would be familiar with providing credible references when you cited them in your writing. Please share the sources with us. Thank you.