perhaps the buyer is freaking out because the thought of purchasing a home and then having to replace all the appliances immediately is overwhelming, particularly if they don't have enough ready cash, or credit line to do so after closing on the house. Perhaps offering an allowance for new appliances (she gets to select them), would ease their mind? I would only offer enough to purchase mid-range refrigerator, cookstove, dishwasher. Depending on where you are, that might only be $2000.00 - it would be plenty in my area. I would not offer anything for washer/dryer/microwave. I, frankly, would be more concerned about having to replace heat/air.

Would home warranty insurance be good in this situation? Don't know much about them...maybe someone can chime in.

I was going to suggest a home warranty as well. This will be a whole lot cheaper than replacing anything and should save your deal. Your listing agent should be able to get you the information.

We were in a similar situation last fall with the older diswasher and refrigerator dieing within a month of each other. The Warrenty company was willing to replace, but had a maximum they would spend. They had a list of what I could choose from, but when I went to every appliance store in town I couldn't find even one listed to look at. I ended-up taking their smallish allowance and buying what I wanted.

IMHO.... 1989 appliances aren't working 'fine'. Not only would they be getting sluggish, but would also be energy guzzlers compared to what is allowed today. Yes, they are way past their prime.

Having said this, I've never had an inspector comment on the appliances.

This really bugs me. I've seen so many questionable things in inspector's reports. The purpose of the inspection is not to make things shiny and new but to look for problems like structural, electrical, etc. If you are not selling a brand new home, you can't possibly expect things to be all new. I can understand if he noted that appliances are in old condition but to say they should be replaced immediately when they are working is ridiculous.

I've known inspectors to test appliances to see that they are working, reach appropriate temps, don't leak (DW) etc, but if they are working there is no basis for saying they need to be replaced immediately. I wondered if the buyer asked him to note the age of the appliances as an issue, but you say the report freaked out the buyer. Dunno, but I wouldn't replace them either. A one year home warranty is pretty standard around here. A lot of agents include them out of their commission and others count it as a selling cost or negotiated item, but this is a perfect time to play that card -- one way or the other.

Just because an inspector wrote that the appliances are past their life expectancy, doesnt mean you are required to replace them. They are working. End of story. Your buyer may just be trying to see what more they can get. The buyer knew the age of the appliances when they put the offer in on the house. You are not required to buy them new appliances, just working appliances. The inspector is just trying to cover his a$$ by stating he recommended appliances be replaced as they are past their life expectancy in case they go shortly after closing.

The inspector was probably fine in noting the age of the appliances. There's a difference between buying two year old appliances and 20 year old appliances.

Where I think the inspector erred was in saying that they needed to be replaced immediately. IMO, it would have been better to simply note that their useful life was coming to an end, and replacement would probably be needed within 2/3/4 years, or something like that.

But the damage has been done. I'd offer a reasonable amount of money as an allowance to purchase new appliances, and leave it at that.

While the buyer knows she's not getting a brand new house with brand new appliances, she might not have realized the age of the appliances in the house.

It all depends on how badly you need to sell this house, and how quickly.

The house we purchased last year was built in 1987 and had the original furnaces which were functioning properly. Our inspector noted they were approaching their life expectancy and to keep an eye on them. He did not state they should be replaced immediately. He brought it to our attention but not in an alarming way. It wasn't something we mentioned to the seller.

"Immediate replacement" would make me think they are unsafe, dangerous, leaking, or not working altogether. Since you can't go back and undo the inspector's report, you now have to deal with it. A warranty may ease the buyer's mind or a small appliance allowance. I'd rely on your agent to help deal with this negotiation.

Not wanting to put money into a home that you weren't going to occupy very long is understandable, but you have to realize how that raises qustions to a buyer about deferred maintenance on the larger more expensive to repair portions of the home.

Comromise with replacing the refrigator ( the most likely one to break) and buying the home warranty for everything else. The fridge lifespan is 7-10 years, so it is on heavily borrowed time. The lifespan on the rest has run out as well, but they aren't as critical to being able to move in immediately. They gotta have a fridge and MW at least to be able to occupy the home so doing that eases the immediate anxiety over that issue. If you prefer, do a $1500 Lowes gift card that gets transferred to them at closing and will allow them to pick their own model and deal with the replacement hassle.

Wow, thanks everyone! A home warranty would cost something like $500 around here, I believe? That's something that a lot of you mentioned so probably that's worth looking into. I'm not sure what the convention is for whether buyer or seller pays but I'll ask my realtor.

True that the appliances are probably not the most energy efficient.. that's probably outside the scope of his report and would've been okay to note but it was mostly the panicked tone he took that was the problem. Thanks GW!

You can get those insurance policies for just home appliances like stoves, dishwashers, refrigerators..... or you can get them for just mechanicals like HVAC, roof, water heaters..... or you can do a combined policy that covers all. We looked into getting a combined policy for our buyers and it was under $700 but I don't remember the exact price. Turned out we didn't need to offer it, but would have been more than happy to do that instead of up front replacement.

IMO, if you offer it at your cost, you become the hero. It you research it and tell them they can pay for it, that casts a negative light on you.

The appliances are the ones that were there when the purchaser looked at the house, right? They are, therefore the ones that the purchaser made an offer on after duly evaluating their age and condition, as they were there plain to see. This is just an attempt to renegotiate the deal after the deal is made; unless you're desperate I'd tell them to take a hike (nicely, of course).

Well, yes, and no.
My inspector notes age and expected lifetime of appliances, as well as roof, HVAC, siding, windows, etc. anything that may have to be replaced sometime soonish. "Immediately to be replaced" would not be appropriate unless there's a danger/safety violation or already not working.

What does your inspection contingency say?

"So my question is, is it true that there's such a thing as a published list of "useful life expectancies" for appliances?"

NO, because it varies with the manufacturer and model. What is ancient for a cheap no-frills model is barely middle-aged for a well-designed one.

Is the inspector right to deem older but perfectly fine appliances as being in need of immediate replacement simply due to older age?

NO ... the chances of them all dropping dead the week after closing is very low, so he's out of line.

Noting their age, that they are beyond the usual life span for that type of appliance, and replacement in the near future is possible - that's within his scope.

Money to replace them should be kept in a safe spot, or the search for the ideal replacement should begin, but if they work for another 2-10 years the buyer will be ahead of the curve.

Is this a fair thing to say in a home inspection report when all it is going to do is freak out the buyer?
That's why they do it ... to find something the buyer can use to bludgeon you with.

Is this something home inspectors routinely do because they feel like they have to find a lot of flaws in order to justify their fee?

I think so ... or maybe he has a scheme going with the local appliance dealer.

===========

We'll be selling our appliances on a separate receipt for about what they would cost delivered from a local used appliance dealer ... if the buyer doesn't want them, they will be sold to that dealer and we leave gaps.

==========
The appliances are the ones that were there when the purchaser looked at the house, right? They are, therefore the ones that the purchaser made an offer on after duly evaluating their age and condition, as they were there plain to see.

Good point - like the carpet, the bath tub, etc. it was clearly visible at inspection.

This post was edited by lazygardens on Mon, Oct 27, 14 at 21:59

Today's appliances have a shelf-life of ten years. Yes, ten years. If an appliance is depreciated for insurance purposes, after 10 years, the value is zero.

There is a 'planned obsolescence' built into appliances these days. When I was young, my mother replaced her Crosby Shelvadore after 34 years and was pretty upset that it broke down!!!

My two cents - this seems like a cash grab to me, the kind of real estate issue which drives me insane. (Also, I don't think that at this point, AFTER a whole-house home inspection, it would raise questions about deferred maintenance of larger systems, as one poster suggested. Not replacing functioning appliances is not "deferred maintenance." In my experience, actually, old appliances (which still work) are often in exceptionally well-maintained homes. The kind of people who take care of things often fix rather than replace appliances.)

Sure, as one poster mentioned, maybe the buyer is freaking out because she doesn't have the money to replace the appliances immediately, and now thinks she has to.

I suspect the more likely scenario is that the buyer, knowingly buying a house with 25-year-old appliances, was probably planning to replace them all anyway. Now she has support for getting them as freebies. (Is the price appropriate for a home with appliances this age? For that matter, in your market, are appliances even customarily conveyed, or a negotiable point? In my market all including washer and dryer do tend to stay but they don't have to, and I don't believe they are even included in the appraisal. "Old appliances" would never be a fair negotiating point.)

It's an odd thing because yes, if you want to keep this going smoothly, you can just replace them or provide money to do so. Low-end models don't cost all that much. But most people getting all new appliances would want to pick them out themselves and might want something above the lowest models. I would pay for no more than the cheapest models which serve the purpose for which they're intended.

I would do that grudgingly, as this is not some new unknown problem which only came to light in the inspection.

Oh, to answer the actual question of the OP... I dislike inspectors including any recommendation for remediation, even though appliances and many home systems have predicted "useful lifespans." We had a sale fall through due to an unexpected major system malfunction. The inspector (a specialist who currently works installing such systems, too) included a completely ridiculous "estimate" based on a not particularly invasive inspection. The estimate included replacing things which don't even exist in our particular system. Ultimately we did replace it, at HALF the "estimate." I believe the estimate was scary enough to cost us the deal, though. In your case, I think the inspector should merely note that the appliances work fine but are beyond their predicted useful lifespan. No mention of recommending IMMEDIATE replacement.

This post was edited by lizzie_nh on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 17:07

the inspector is the AGENT of the potential buyer ...

he would not be upholding his duty if he did not note such ...

the buyer.. takes his info and makes an offer based on such ...

you reject or accept... period ...

it is not his duty to NOT offend you ... so i dont know why you seem offended about it ...

you usually sell a house.. 'as is' ... and that includes everything inside of it ... personally i wouldnt even offer the buyers ins ... they are aware ...

when i bought my first house.. as a bachelor.. i threw out the old fridge left... it was carp ... and bought a new beer holder.. lol ...

and i used the 30 year old washer for 9 years.. before i sold the house again .. with the same washer in it ... took the fridge with me that time though ...

it seems outrageous... for the buyer to demand new appliances when buying a new house... UNLESS your market dictates that methodology ...

i would counter there offer.. with a reduction of my asking price by half the amount of the appliances ... or tell them to hit the highway ...

really now... demanding all new appliances.. whats else.. new drapes?? .. light fixtures??? new carpeting???? ... crikey ...

my best advice.. negotiate on price alone..

ken

"the buyer.. takes his info and makes an offer based on such ... "

The way I understood it (and that's how it works in my area), buyer make an offer, sellers accept it, contingent on an inspection. The inspection contingency may allow renegotiation or the sale may have been "as is" but still with an inspection, but in practice buyers may try to renegotiate either way.

So buyers can renegotiate the original contract, asking for repairs, replacements, etc. Sellers can agree or not. It's all negotiable. If they don't agree, the contract is void.

Moreover, sellers are required to disclose any hidden defects that came up during an inspection to subsequent buyers. Now, appliances obviously wouldn't fall under this disclosure rule.

yes mom ...

they can negotiate on anything they wish ...

my point.. was.. as presented here.. they are DEMANDING NEW APPLIANCES ...

good for them .. i want peace on earth also ... but i would not be buying them appliances ...

i would negotiate on price alone ... move your price point according to their offer .. not buy appliances ..

again ... depending on your market .. .and how desperate you are ...

really now.. think this out.. so you go buy a couple grand of appliances.. then they say.. wait.. i wanted stainless ... no.. i wanted high end ... where does it stop ... here is the model numbers of my wished for appliances??? ... and then they walk away .. because what you bought wasnt good enough.. and the eventual buyer cares not a whit.. because they are bringing there own???? .. what a potential nightmare ...

the solution.. negotiate on price alone...

ken

This is where you get your agents to do the work of advising the buyer that asking for new appliances is an unreasonable request.

Or the agents kick in part of their commission to buy new appliances.

I wouldn't accede to their request if I were the seller.

UPDATE: I'm a sucker because we bought a new stove. Found a cheap price at least.
And my realtor just informed me today that she bought a new dishwasher! Ordered it first, told us after.
This bugs me more than our caving in for a stove because I love this lady, this is the 3rd transaction we've used her for, she's a smart realtor, isn't all just fluff and frosted hair and Vanna White, and I don't like that she felt she had to do this out of her commission/out of her own pocket. I guess she was worried about the deal falling through.

How did you and your agent know what model, color, size, and all other details to buy? Is all this detail written out and signed off by you and the buyer?

I'm confused. Did the buyers say that they'd continue with the purchase if you bought a stove and dishwasher? Or could they still walk because the fridge, washer/dryer, etc are still old?

I hope these purchases aren't for nothing.

I think a perspective shift is needed here.

KA's right, y'know. It's only money, not appliances. And it's just a house, not your home any longer since you decided to leave it for money. You can righteously get insulted if someone cheapens your home and it's contents. It's silly to get insulted over someone working the final price of some house you want to get rid of. It's a game; play it.

If you want X dollars for your no-longer-wanted house you certainly don't price it at that. You add commissions and you add bargaining slack to that goal and come up with a first price. "Defects" and EOL disposable things are in that slack. Use it and walk with what you wanted in the first place.

You know once they're in that house they'll just replace everything anyway within a year or two. That's a popular way to make a new house a home.

Arrgh, you guys were right!

NC Real Estate Guy, the stove was easy--the appliances, as well as countertops and tile backsplash, are all that bisque/biscuit/almond/insert your own beige food here color. (Yea, it was a 1989 special.) So searching for gas stove, with the beige color to match everything, I realized there's pretty much only 1 or 2 choices. Springing for one random stainless appliance would look odd in such an outdated kitchen anyway.

Ken and Grubby, do I come across as personally insulted? That's interesting because I WAS insulted!! I know, it's juvenile of me. But the way the letter from the buyer's attorney was written, it was like, Unfortunately your home has been neglected and is in disrepair! I read that and I was like, you jerk, I was living there with my children, I did not live in squalor in an unsafe home with no heat and no working appliances and an electrical system that was about to burst into flames. I know, they just write it like that to try to scare us into coughing up money and/or new stuff and I should have stayed all matter-of-fact. I think... I think the truth is I WAS sort of embarrassed about how shabby this (temporary) home was and so his letter struck a nerve?

Liz, I agree with you that the inspection contingency is a cash grab. A cash grab and also a demand that the sellers run around like crazy fixing a bunch of trivial things that aren't really broken. I feel like the price already reflected the age of the kitchen/the age of the house! Of course it did! Obviously if the identical house next door is nicely renovated nobody is going to offer the same for both. I feel like it's a good enough deal for the buyer and I feel like, unlike something she wouldn't have known very easily, like maybe the age of the furnace, any buyer, no matter how inexperienced, would walk into that kitchen and think, Gee, this kitchen is pretty old and these appliances look like they're probably original. So offer the price you're willing to pay for the house as you see it, and the inspection should be for pointing out potential issues (real issues) that wouldn't necessarily be obvious to the average buyer.

When I moved into my home 6 years ago, it came with a home warranty that the seller provided d/t some appliances being older. My first week in my home, it got cold, and guess what, the furnance was not working. All I had to do is call warranty who sent someone out and fixed it. The next summer, central air went out, warranty called someone in and they recommended a new unit. Within a week it was done. For all other appliances, I have had no problem. The home warranty was the best thing I could have asked for as a new homeowner. I still have the warranty and it gives me a piece of mind.

It's who blinks first. And it's a business decision, not a reflection on your house keeping or parenting skills. Some people are greedy and will be searching for faults to squeeze out more.

But you need to ask yourself whether a couple of hundred dollars is it worth to have a deal not go through. Also, even if the buyer demands more and you tell them "no", new appliances aren't wasted, should the sale fall through in the end.

So, try to not take it personally (easier said than done), and move ahead.