Should clarify that the main road runs through the area but either side of it are completely residential, one side typical 4 bedroom suburban 60 x 100, the other larger houses on bigger land. The first house would be in the larger house more rolling green lawn area

The least expensive house in neighborhood is almost always going to be the best buy.
You confuse me when you say that there are only 4 houses on the cul-de-sac and that this house is the 2nd house in. Wouldn't there be two houses a that are the the first house in and two that are the second house in?

Well the lots are not divided up perfectly. The house across sits on its lot a little differently as most of its property is to the side. So it takes up as much width as the first two houses on the other side. However it does not have as much depth as the one I am interested in. That house is 200 x 130 or so. The one I want and the first one in on that side are 90 x 250. Actually there are 6 houses on the cul de sac but only 4 are visible

It's better to be the smallest in the biggest than biggest in the smallest.

saphire:
oh my goodness: i thought someone posted my thoughts/ordeal, because i was just in the same situation.

the house that's been giving me stress is on a corner lot. The house faces a fast/cut-through street and the side street. The fast street is ~2miles long cutting through the town the house is in, and a street leading to the next town over. The side street is one of 2 streets which are the entrances to a LARGE (~150-200 houses) new development, ranging from $650K - $1.2million on 0.6 to 1.5acres of land (so pretty spaced out and not cramped).

Weve received permission to move the entrance of the driveway from the fast street to the side street. We would then put up a fence on the fast street and lots of fast-growing trees.

We currently live in a new development (of smaller houses) of 6 cul-de-sacs stemming from one street, so I am spoiled by the safety and quietness of my neighborhood.

WeÂve been looking since November in very expensive towns with great school systems. Because of our paltry budget, we canÂt afford many amenities when we want great schools and slow street.

This house has been on the market since July and have come down ~15% in price. Note: the house directly behind/next to this house facing the side street is listed for $200K more (it is bigger and built newer).

We toured the house Monday; made an offer Tuesday, the sellers countered; and I got cold feet Wednesday. So I spent all afternoon Wednesday walking around this amazing neighborhood, meeting the neighbors and kids, and listening to the fast street. Then my 2 friends came to tour the house/listen to the street today.

We then went to tour another house thatÂs more affordable but in more dated and not as expensive neighborhood in a cul-de-sac. Seeing that I can get a cul-de-sac, I concluded that I couldnÂt live w/ the fast street, so I nixed the expensive corner-lot house.

Well, we got home, talked, and made a counter offer to the expensive house.
When they accepted, I was VERY happy and yelled a woohooo! (which surprised me since IÂve been so incredibly stressed about this decision, hemming and hawing morning/noon/night).

HereÂs my thought of how I concluded that this house was best for my family:
1. like your post said, buying the cheapest house in the best block/neighborhood.
- my kids (1 and 3) will learn to play in the private/safe backyard for now, but when theyÂre older, they can ride their bikes on the sidewalk/development
- we can stroll for hours in the development
- we would NEVER EVER outvalue our neighborhood, so when we win the lottery or when I go back to work when the kids are in school, I CAN put the Viking and Subzero, etc into my perfect kitchen or add a 2nd floor above the breezeway to get the 5th bedroom, without worrying about being the most expensive house on the block.
2. The price of LAND will always go up. I can improve a HOUSE as much as I want, but I wonÂt be able to GROW more land. This house is over an acre with lots of mature trees.
3. It is in a quaint New England town (35min East of Boston), just 1.5miles from schools and center of town.

I wish you luck in coming to a conclusion that is best for you/your family.
No fat lady singing yet, because we still have the inspection on Monday, signing the Purchase&Sales Agreement on Friday, and closing at end of April. Lots of things can come up between now and then.

Oh my, IÂm sorry to have taken over your post.

Why does it being on a cul de sac make it worse than on a quiet residential street. I'd rather have a house on a cul de sac than a regular street, you get less traffic on a cul de sac?

It is hard to get the feel. It is the last cul de sac before the middle school (about 1000 yards away but I am guessing) so I think you might get people who come into the cul de sac to turn around. The next cul de sac is about 300 yards away (guessing again) and the nearest open street that goes into the heart of the area is about 600 yards away. This particular cul does not have the real neighborhood feel I am looking for, it sort of feels isolated. However the next door neighbor is a mansion so I assume some people value this area.

Plus the street it abuts is the really main street. A friend totaled her car on this street further up (although it is only one lane in each direction it is the main street that connects about 5 or 6 villages to each other. So for things like riding bikes for kids, once they outgrow the cul de sac there is no place to go. I guess they could ride in the less expensive area but they would have to cross the really busy street. I love cul de sacs in general and if this were off another quiet or even semi quiet street it would be a different story. As the other poster described, while you can walk forever once you get into the neighborhood, the trick is getting from the cul de sac into the heart of the neighborhood

A house we looked at in the less expensive neighborhood was the 3rd house in on the other side however the street was not particularly busy and it was part of a regular street so the 3rd house in thing did not bother me nor apparently anyone else as they had at least 2 other interested parties and it is now in contract

Huango

I thought your post was interesting and you are least one step ahead of me since you are actually ready to buy. Some thoughts (good and bad read at your own peril) and some questions

I assume the less expensive house is in the same school system? Is it at least .3 acres or less? What makes it less expesnive, just older homes or are they smaller and closer together and the schools are not as great? Is there a run down feel or an older charming feel? While I would rather be on an acre than on 60 x 100, there comes a point around .5 where having more land is not that big a deal unless you have plans for it like a tennis court and pool which does not sound like you. However for me the main attraction to the expensive neighborhood is that everything is spread out and you are not on top of your neighbors. As for overimproving in a neighborhood. I used to worry about that in my current house. Once upon a time that would have been a problem. Now someone recently bought a perfectly good house on my street, paid market and tore it down and built a McMansion! and no one even thinks it is outrageous.

However, my town also has a very expensive area and I have noticed that houses in that area or big houses in general in my town have gone up the same percentage as my house but the jump ends up being bigger. So a house that was priced 100k more than mine is now over 300k more.

I started typing out a whole bunch of questions until it just hit me that based on what I have seen over the last few years, houses in more expensive areas do appreciate more than those in less expensive areas. So I am starting to think on pure value, a more expensive house is a better investment. I do wonder about liquidity, my house sat for a long time and I wonder if it had been on a quieter street would it have sold faster? One of our neighbors marketed their house in 2003 and she got a bunch of offers on FSBO and made 100k in a year (DH lost his job I think). She had a lot of contacts and she was a meticoulous housekeeper. This despite the street (but it was after the stop sign was put in)

I live about 15 minutes away from where I am looking in another school district and town. I live on a little bit of a cut through street. It sounds like the entrance side street you mentioned. I actually had the double line removed when they repaved and a stop sign put in which I think has increased my resale. For you, would a stop sign make sense anyplace to reduce traffic or speed (technically you have to argue that children and old people need to cross at that spot but the reality is it reduced speed a lot). But I do wonder if I will have trouble selling. I have gotten used to the street and if I liked the village more I would expand instead of moving. I do have small children ranging from 2-10 and we manage just fine. I rememeber the prior owner telling me she actually sat in her car at rush hour and counted cars. She was relocated otherwise I doubt they would have sold. However I have to be honest. My identical house sits behind me on a dead end double lot. There is such a mayberry feel to that street that you do not feel with my house despite the fact that I have a .24 lot (large for my current area). I guess I was hoping to get some of that with my next house. In you case being on an acre should help a lot. So I would probably go for the more expensive one unless the cul de sac one has similar property and just needs to be fixed up a little

99.9999999999999999999999% of the time it's best to buy the worst/smallest house in the neighbourhood than the biggest/best.

"It is in the most expensive neighborhood" "On another block further in to this neighborhood it may be worth the asking"

Which is it? Buy the better location. You can change anything about a house except its location.

Buyers do not usually look for cheaper houses. Houses are of great prices, and it involves a greater amount. In my own opinion, if I am going to buy a house, the first consideration would be the location, then, house materials, price.

neuronicone - want to explain the link to property listings in the Canary Islands? I see you just signed up here - check the advertising policy.

Huango said:
"It is in a quaint New England town (35min East of Boston), just 1.5miles from schools and center of town."

EAST of Boston! Did you buy an island! LOL
Good luck with inspections, etc. I also live in that area.

We are moving this summer and are trying to find the perfect family neighborhood. There is one upscale neighborhood A that we might be able to get into by the skin of our teeth, or another neighborhood B where we will have more options of homes we can afford. I get the whole 'buy the least expensive home in the nicest neighborhood' thing, but when I think of it from my kids' perspective, do I want them to be the poorest kids in the neighborhood? The ones that don't have the nicer clothes, gadgets, vacations? Or would I rather them be in a neighborhood of families that are more on par with our financial status? I may be overthinking this, but where we live now we are surrounded by folks with tons of money, fancy cars, going to Mexico for Spring Break, 9yo's with IPods, and it is not soemthing that I have enjoyed.

So from an investment perspective the better neighborhood is the way to go, but from a family perspective I am not so sure.

Conventional wisdom says that financially it's best to buy the smallest house in the best neighborhood. However, I read about a study recently that concluded that people who were "richest" in their nieghborhoods were happier and more satisfied with their lives than those that were "poorest" in their neighborhoods. Wish I could remember where I read that.

Saphire: "I assume the less expensive house is in the same school system? Is it at least .3 acres or less? What makes it less expesnive, just older homes or are they smaller and closer together and the schools are not as great? Is there a run down feel or an older charming feel?"
The less expensive house is in a different, but just about comparable school system.
Its 0.47 acres, like many of the others, so the houses in the neighborhood are closer together. Compared to my current neighborhood and the new expensive one, I find the less expensive house neighborhood Gloomy and run-down (I think mostly because its an older houses built in ~1965-75 - neighborhood) and not that much sprucing up.

Saphire: "I actually had the double line removed when they repaved and a stop sign put in which I think has increased my resale. For you, would a stop sign make sense anyplace to reduce traffic or speed (technically you have to argue that children and old people need to cross at that spot but the reality is it reduced speed a lot)."
Hmmmdoesnt having the stop sign INCREASE noise, since cars/trucks would have to slow down (brake/engine noises) and then rev up again (after Grandma crosses)?
I used to live on a very main street right at the light of a city outside of Boston. Man, the noise a motorcycle can make when it starts up again, same w/ trucks, etc.

Saphire: "But I do wonder if I will have trouble selling."
I believe your location would deter a number of potential buyers. The fast-street house were buying had been on the market for ~9months, and I didnt bother looking at it once I knew it was on a fast street. It was just until I couldnt find another better (value, amenities, schools) for our price range that I was convinced to go see it.
Its also why this house is price so much more affordable than if it were smack dab in a cul de sac; it would cost at least 25% more.

Another thing I dont think I stated is that I plan to live in this next house for a long time (~20+ years) if we can manage it (meaning no job relo or whatever). So Ill definitely get used to the noise, etc. By the time I sell, I believe that the land would be worth a whole lot more.

Typo: I meant 35min WEST of Boston. I currently live EAST of Worcester, so used to saying/typing that.

sds: there was an article in the Boston Globe magazine about 3weeks ago.
I wonder how much of the 'envy' (if you're in the smaller house) is dependent on the individual...
When I grew up in suburbs southern CA, we were POOR. We used to have to take buses, then we slowly made our way up. But my school friends were all VERY comfortable to wealthy. I never saw it as a bad thing. I see that I can use Jason's pool, or Kim's rec-room, or Becky's dirt bike, etc.
I did learn at an early age about the "haves" and the "have nots", but I think that made me treasure things MORE when I do eventually earn them or get them, instead of just readily given them when I ask/beg/whine for them...

how much was it that I was just a little kid?

I did feel some twinges when I went skiing for the first time and didn't have all the right gears, etc, when my friends were all total snow bunnies in their cute/matching outfits, along w/ the great skiing skill from all those lessons.
But unless DH loses his job, we should have the basics, like bikes, ski gears, hockey gears, all sorts of lessons, etc. We just won't have the boats, the jet skis, and private islands...

Re: Poor kids in rich town. A suburb north of Chicago is "Kenilworth". The larger properties are between the RR tracks and Lake Michigan. There are also some large, but mostly smaller, homes west of the tracks. Still farther west is a part of a neighboring suburb, Wilmette, that is called "Kenilworth Gardens".

It's well known that families spend lifetimes striving to move up from "The Gardens" to "The Kenil" to the ultimate: "The Worth".

Kids from five suburbs attend one high school. It's huge (over 4000), and there is a definite pecking order based on where in those suburbs you live. Same just within the different suburbs.

You have to know that the kids from the rentals in the lowest-ranked suburb are socially invisible. So, be careful about shoehorning your family into an school district just for the district's scholastic reputation.

Maybe you don't want THE smallest house, but A smaller one that fits into its neighborhood -- with more expensive ones in the same town.

A house in a good location will nearly always hold its value. The one with an unchangeable negative to its location will always be hard to unload.

Huango

Ideally you want the stop sign a block before your house. The way it works though, they hit the breaks just in the middle of my house (100 feet from corner) and I never hear it. Neither does my neighbor on the corner. Plus before this traffic was really wizzing by. What happened is my street is an offshoot of a really busy street and a cut through for the 100 houses who live on the surrounding blocks. So people were wizzing because we were the quiet part of a fork, not realizing that this is a quieter street. Now I think of the stop sign as a way for them to stop and think and when they start again it is usually slower. You can couple it with some children playing signs

For us it would be the same school district (they actually go to religious school which will stay the same) either way and in a sense, if there is a pecking order, they will be further up because they live in the expensive neighborhood. However I may not be happy because most of my life I have been the one with more in the less expensive suburb. I think it would be weird for me to suddenly be the poor one.

I did learn about a study in sociology class in college, I believe the study was done in the 1970s. People who made 40k and lived in a neighborhood where most made 20 or 30k I forget felt themselves richer (not necessarily happier) than people who made 40k and lived in a neighborhood where everyone made 60. They felt poor

We will still provide music lessons, karate and ipods, all the trappings of suburban youth. I will often try to say to our kids that things are too expensive, whether they are or not. I think they really have no idea where we are financially. It is interesting because a friend is having some money troubles and in the same breath as she spent 2 hours on the phone to save on the ride to the airport (125), she got her 10 year old ds a Chocolate cell phone for his birthday (has an MP3 player and she spent 100 on it). We had a long discussion both about purchases (he actually did need a cell phone because she is sometimes stuck in traffic and he has to let himself in) and also although this would thrill him as the coolest cell phone in his class (at least 5 out of 17 kids have them), we did discuss that he may attach to much import to this thing. That it would have been ok to get this for
Ben Smith in his class whose family owns a chain of stores because it would be just another thing. For her son we decided it would set him up to expect more and more which she and her DH could not provide right now. She ended up returning it for the RAZR which is less expensive and he was thrilled with that (so maybe hte message got lost anyway). However this digresses from the topic.

I guess my point is that the top of the less expensive market is not that far from the bottom of the more expensive and it seems like you get so much more (less than .3 v more than .5 usually)

"A house in a good location will nearly always hold its value. The one with an unchangeable negative to its location will always be hard to unload" Well said and I guess that is the issue. Since DH does not work in something requiring relocation I guess I should worry less about that. Still you never know what market you will be selling into. I do sort of regret not selling my house 3 years ago when everything was selling