Thank you dcarch. It was very good.

Need to correct my write up...the roast was cooked to 125 not 225... duh.

The darker shadow on the cut piece of meat is not the meat but a shadow from something...maybe me taking the picture.

Nancy

Final report on our 5-rib 11-1/2 lb. roast @170 degrees non-convection, approx 5 hrs cooking time:

After bringing it across town, popped it into a 500-degree oven, lower center rack, for 12 minutes. Reheated all the way through, very soft and tender.

This was a particularly interesting comparison because I used a typical cheap supermarket roast, and as I often do, had thrown it in the freezer where it sat for over a month. I've been using the high-heat roasting method up to now.

In comparison, the high-heat roast has always come out much drier and chewier, tasting like the lesser quality meat it is. The low-heat method gave far superior results for this supermarket roast.

I do think that I will cook the roast to a very slightly higher temp next time. On my thermometer (can't think of the brand right now, but it wasn't a 'name' mfg) I was cooking it to 121 degrees for medium-rare. But for the low-heat method, because the meat is so consistent all the way through, next time I'll use 125 degrees. This one was marginally a bit rare for some eaters.

Overall, a great method for cooking a rib roast, very simple and effective.

I used this method also....perfection! The best rib roast I ever served. Only a 2 ribber here, 4 lbs. took 2.5 hours at 200 degrees. It was wonderful and I will only use this method going forward. Thanks for sharing this information...loved it!

Gorgeous roast Nancy.

Ann

Nancy, that is one spectacular looking roast!

We had a relatively small rib roast on Christmas eve. I had been browsing in my aunt's recipe box last week and found her notes for cooking a rib roast so we decided to try what spouse immediately dubbed the Indiana Jones Leap of Faith method.

The room temperature seasoned roast was put on a raised rack in a pan containing 1/2" of water. No meat thermometer inserted. Roasted at 500 degrees for 5 minutes per pound; then turned off the heat and kept the oven door closed for 2 hours. Took it out and let it set for about 10-15 minutes without checking the temp.

Then we cut into it and it was perfect - a nice juicy medium rare with a crispy golden crust. However, it was very difficult not to check it and I kept envisioning having to make some gravy for well-done hot roast beef sandwiches for our guests. I don't think my aunt even owned a meat thermometer but guess she knew what she was doing.

Actually, I often do a leg of lamb in a similar method: roasted at 450 degrees for 40 minutes, then in a 200 degree oven for 2 hours, no peeking allowed. Comes out beautifully, but the meat is firmer out the outside than the slow-cook-then-sear method.

Wanted to try this method yesterday but was to scared to try something new for the big day. Plus, I wasn't sure how long it would take a 15/16 pounder to come up to temp. Is there a general rule of the timing based on weight? I'm going to give this a shot with one I have in the freezer....think it's a three bone roast. Nancy, that looks perfect for me and my group. Love, love prime rib.

David

"----Wanted to try this method yesterday but was to scared to try something new for the big day ----"

Go for it. By the very nature of this method, it is very forgiving. If you make a mistake (not cooked enough) it is correctable.

That cannot be said with overcooked meat.

dcarch

wizardnm, My wife wants all meats to be well done, but will eat rib roast at mid well.
I cook in a roasting pan & bag with pot roast & 3 or 4 kinds root veggies.
She uses a crook pot & very little root veggies.

dcarch, I will be trying this method with a smaller PR that I have in the freezer. Just wasn't sure about the timing... that was an important factor for dinner on Christmas Day. Had some family that had to go to other places later that day and didn't want to hold them up or have them miss dinner.

I'm a little curious about the sous vide method of cooking that you have shared here too. So many recipes and methods and not much free time to play for me lately. : )

David

David, don't let that fancy word sous vide distract you. It is really a very simple way of cooking:

1. You find out what kind of meat you are cooking. Meat from different animals and different parts of the animal require different temperature and cooking time to come out exactly the way you like.

2. You find out what is the lowest safe temperature recommended for that meat, if you enjoy rare meat.

3. The low temperature gives you juicy meat, and the long cooking time can tenderize very tough cuts of meat without overcooking. You do save a lot of money for this.

4. Because you are cooking at the precise ideal temperature, there is no need to "rest" the meat. You serve the meat hot.

5. There is no need to thaw either. I have sous vide cooked 18-lb turkey directly from the freezer.

6. You can reheat leftovers back to the exact temperature without ever overcooking them.

This has become possible because precision digital temperature control (to 0.1 degree) has become very inexpensive.

dcarch

I roasted a crown roast of pork using a similar method. However, I decided the low heat was either too low or the meat was still too cold after sitting out for a few hours before putting it in the oven. I ended up increasing the temperature to get the meat ready for our dinner hour; it was delicious and moist.

I'm curious.........do those of you who use this method have 2 ovens? Or just make all your side choices able to be cooked on the stovetop? I usually have too much else to cook, to give up the oven entirely for the meat for an extended amount of time......although I'd like to! Plus, DD is a VEGAN and I have to heat up her "thing" at the same time. haha
So I ended up roasting my 6# rib roast by cooking at 475 for 40 minutes, then 325 for about an hour. I took it out at 120 F and while it was resting, it went up to 130. It was very good, but next time I'll take it out at 115F.

I definitely love my digital thermometer that's in the meat all the time. No need to open the oven and lose heat.

Hi David!

I was wondering the same thing. Even though I use a meat thermometer I like to know about when dinner will be ready!

I went back through the thread and jotted down times and weight

14 lbs ...... 5 hrs
11.5 pounds...5 hrs (5 ribs)
9 pounds......5 hrs (4 ribs)
4 pounds.......2.5 hours (2 ribs)

Looks like the 1 hour per rib jkom mentioned is a good GUIDE but as you can see the larger cuts all took the same time. The temp of the meat when it goes in the oven will definitely play in. It also appears that the larger the cut the less time per pound.

Maybe the original directions for this method say something about cooking times.

I have one oven. Once the roast reached 120, I removed it from the oven and covered it with foil. I then turned the oven up to 350 and baked the potatoes and corn pudding (green bean and mushroom sides were stove top). Once the potatoes and pudding were done, I cranked the oven up and preheated to 500, uncovered the roast and finished it in the oven for 20 minutes. I covered the pudding and the potatoes stayed warm while the roast was finishing.

Everything was nice and hot at serving time.

It is hard to determine an exact roasting time because of the variables. As Sharon noted, the beginning temp of the roast, for one. The number of ribs isn't a big factor as the heat is penetrating from all sides.

Since the roast will easily hold for a couple of hours between the slow cooking and the high heat finish. it's best to just plan to have it done a little early. Mine was 6 hours, start to finish. Add to that 1 additional hour between fridge and when I put it in the oven.

My side dishes went into the oven when the roast came out after reaching 125. They needed 30-45 minutes at 350, easy.

Caution: I would not try this method with pork or poultry as both are more subject to bacterial growth at low temps than beef is. It would make me very nervous.

Here's the original link from the Serious Eats site. Click on the link in the article for the recipe.

Nancy

Here is a link that might be useful: Perfect Prime Rib

Thanks Nancy for the link!

The fact the roast holds so well makes the "timing" less of an issue. I was using the number of ribs more as a factor of size in helping judge time.

I made my first prime rib roast too. I think I was so intimidated because it is pretty pricey compared to a regular roast. It turned out well but I don't feel the love for prime rib. Everyone else loved it. I also tried a oven safe thermometer - I burnt my right hand fingers because it was instinct to try and pull out the thermometer when I went to check the reading.

What did you all do for Au Jus???

I make a red wine or Port sauce, which I think is much tastier than an au jus.

Posted by jeri "What did you all do for Au Jus??? "

Interesting question. With low temperature roasting, you will get very little Au Jus.

All the juice stays inside the meat. With the price you pay for the meat, that's not a bad thing, unless you really must have Yorkshire pudding.

dcarch

For au jus, I purchase extra rib bones. I order them ahead from the butcher. I make thie au jus the day before. The bones are roasted with celery, onions, garlic and carrots until the bones are nice and brown. Then everything is put in a stockpot with water and red wine and simmered until the meat falls off the bones. The stock is strained, first through fine mesh then through cheesecloth, then refrigerated until the fat solidifies. The fat is removed and the stock reheated and reduced.

I had my first roast too, with lots of garlics (around 20 cloves for 10lbs of meat) and thymes. Served with baked baby potatoes, caramelized sweet onions and thymes. 500 first and lower to 300. Then my aunt decided to bring store-bought apetizers that need to be in the oven at 400! A lot of closings and openings and leaving the oven door open later, I managed to get it cook to med rare, the most tender and most flavorful roast beef ever, according to my guests and my taste LOL.

Sharon, thanks for doing the research and posting. I thought I read through Helene's link but couldn't find anything. Nancy, thanks for posting the link again. I will try this method with my next PR and report back and let you know how it went. It will be a while though, at least a month or more.

dcarch, I've picked up hit and miss info on the sous vide from you and FOAS. When I decide to take it on I'm sure I'll have a few questions for y'all.

Catherinet, I do have a second range in the garage that I use often when entertaining. I also do my canning out there as well as most of my baking in the summer. Saves a little on the AC bill down here during the summer. Before that I used a couple of toaster ovens if needed for the other sides that needed to bake/roast.

David

A beautiful roast!

I am going to try cooking my first prime rib on NY day using this method. I am so nervous.

What do you guys season the outside with?

I seasoned my PR with Lawry's Seasoning Salt. The best PR I have ever had was at Lawry's Restaurant in downtown Chicago and that's how the salt became famous. I love the stuff but I only use it on beef.

Magic, be sure to come back and let us know how you PR turns out.

Nancy

I will, Thank you!

wizard - I have also had the famous Lawry's PR in Chicago and thought it was fabulous. Just a different taste than PR coated in Morton's Kosher salt which is what the Hilton was using when I worked there. I also use Lawry's on beef items but sometimes I use a pinch in a breakfast strata or a sprinkle on mac n cheese before it goes in the oven.

So I tried this slow roast method about 2 weeks ago but I am just now getting around to uploading the pictures. Better late than never eh?

I have come to the conclusion that no one in my family likes meat rare. We are med-rare to med people. I tried the method on a small 2 rib roast. I pulled it out at 126 degrees and let it rest for 30 minutes while the oven cranked up to 500. When I went to put it back in the oven, it was still 126 even though it was tented with foil. I expected it to have climbed some but it didn't. I had it at 500 for about 12 minutes and got a nice crust but it was too rare for us and it even seemed to have a bit of a grey ring anyway. When my family asked why I changed the way I cooked prime rib, I told them that I was trying to get rid of that over cooked grey edge. They told me that was their favorite part. Too funny! I love that part as well. Oh well, I guess we are a little wierd. I defrosted my big 10 lb prime rib for this weekend but I will go back to my old way of 450 for 20 minutes and then cooked at 325 until medium.

Here was my attempt before I put the slices back in the oven for a few minutes.

OMG!!! And you put that beautiful meat back into the oven??
Looks beautiful!!
(can you tall I had popcorn for lunch and no dinner...yet?)

In this case, you can see what is happening. The fat ring basically insulated the heat from getting in the center.

But the roast still looks very good.

dcarch

Our family must be weird too, because that is way too rare for us.

Dcarch, I see what you are calling the fat ring, but--it "insulated the heat from getting into the center"? Could you expand on that a little please? Seems it would sure throw off your (our) timing/cooking.

I never did get to cook our PR for Christmas. DH was ill so I froze the PR and will be making it soon when family can come. I don't cook roasts as much as I used to and feel rusty!

No way that beautiful roast would have been put back in the oven here. Looks just about perfect to me.

The use of the Low & Slow method is really very simple to understand how it can achieve great control of the cooking of the meat, whether you like the meat to be rare, medium rare or well done. Of course I use the the absolute L&S method with the lowest controllable temperature by using the sous vide method. It is impossible to go wrong, whatever degree of done-neess you prefer, always 100% perfect. It does not matter how cold or how thick the meat is.

The thermal conductivity of meat is complicated, but in general, lean meat conducts heat about 2 1/2 times better than fat. Yes, the higher the heat in cooking, the less control and uniformity of your end result will be. That's why the L&S method is the most used method by expert chefs for making the best beef.

dcarch

It is possible to achieve rare, medium rare to well done beef regardless of the method you use. Over the years I'ved tried pretty much all the methods except DC's favourite sous vide method, and I get consistent results regardless of the method.

I prefer the high heat method. Turns out a perfect roast every time (Or at least perfect for my taste) and it doesn't take hours to accomplish.

Thank goodness there are enough methods to make everyone happy.

Ann

I did my second prime rib for Xmas last year. The first one I did a while ago I overcooked I think because I was relying on time and weight. This second one turned out near perfect. I used the low and slow method with the blast of heat before serving and it was perfect for my husband with an asbestos mouth. He likes his food piping hot and when I try to "rest" food he thinks it's getting cold. Anyway I used my oven temperature probe and set it for 125 and I think prime rib is something like that sleep number mattress that they are always hawking on tv -- you have to learn what specific degree of meat is your personal favorite. In our case, 125 was a little too rare so now I know next time I'll try 130. I made a wonderful au jus the day before(because dcarch was right, very very little juice came out of the meat). I skimmed the fat off of the au jus to use for Ann T's yorkshire puddings (which were fabulous). Two of my guests like their meat more medium well so I just warmed their slices in my perfect au jus for a while -- I think I read somewhere that that's what restaurants do and it worked and I served additional au jus in my butter warmers and everyone enjoyed dipping their yorkshires in it. My only screw up, and no one else knew but me, was I overfilled two of the yorkshires and had a bit of a boil over mess on my oven floor - thank goodness for self cleaning ovens.

As Ann said, "-I prefer the high heat method. Turns out a perfect roast every time (Or at least perfect for my taste) and it doesn't take hours to accomplish. "

Ann is so correct; it all comes down to personal preference, if the method works for you, that is THE perfect method.

"Sous vide" is such a lousy name which causes so much sous vide phobia to many. It has nothing to do with "cooking under pressure" or "in vacuum" It is nothing more than an oven (water oven) that can control temperature reliably and precisely for very low temperature cooking. If you have a convection oven with digital temperature control or a smoker with digital temperature control, you can almost cook the same way as with a sous vide cooker. It is all about temperature control.

I do want to clear up one point with what Ann said; NO, sous vide does NOT take longer time to cook, in many cases it takes less time. I can have a frozen 12-lb block of rib roast cooked in the SV cooker without waiting for a few days for it to be thawed, and cooked in about the SAME amount of time as in any other method (it thaws much quicker in a SV cooker, and no resting time required).

The long cooking time, as much as 72 hours, is a very special feature that only sous vide (low temperature) can achieve. You can tenderize very tough cuts of meat (beef, pork, chicken---) by cooking it a long time under controlled low temperature. For instance, You can have inexpensive bottom round /chuck steak SV cooked to fork tender and still medium rare. Otherwise the only way is to make pot roast or stew, which I classify the quality of meat cooked that way (very delicious) as chewable, but not tender.

paprikash, I don't go by well-done, medium, medium rare, and rare anymore because those terms mean different things to different people. I have a chart of color photos depicting the full spectrum of done-ness that I show to my guests and ask them exactly how they like their meat done, and the meat will be done exactly the way they like every time. They will be no guessing, no taking chances and no mistakes. You just don't want to make a mistake with over $100.00's worth of beef while your friends are waiting. The other thing you can do with SV, if after cooking the rib roast at 125 F and you decide it is too rare, you can re-cook it at a higher temperature, say 128F, or 129.2F or 132.5F or ----- without losing quality. I am not sure that can be done with other methods.

--------------------------------
Two meals with very tough cuts of beef, medium rare London Broil and Bottom Round. Sous vided 48 hours. They were very tender, and there was no need to thin slice across the grian.

dcarch

dcarch, you are the Pompeo Posar (look it up, ye born after about 1960) of food porn! and I mean that in the best possible way.

Followup on my adventure, as listed earlier in the thread: the holidays were terribly busy for me, and I neglected to put the leftover food in the freezer promptly. About a week after the Christmas dinner, there were a couple of beautiful med-rare slices of beef lurking in the fridge, and I gobbled them down quickly in a hurried lunch.

I paid for that dearly. I was sick as a dog for about 48 hours. Has little to do with making the food rare (although, maybe, overcooked meat doesn't spoil as quickly). On the good side, I wanted to lose weight in 2012, and I lost 7 pounds in 24 hours. Not the way I wanted to do it though.

At any rate, follow common sense. Put food away quickly and if you're not gonna get to it in a couple of days, freeze it.

Posted by arley "dcarch, you are the Pompeo Posar (look it up, ye born after about 1960) of food porn! and I mean that in the best possible way.------"

Hahaa! I did have to look up P Posar. That's because I only read the articles. :-)

Sorry it was not that comfortable for you to loose those 7 lbs. The good news is that your body is much stronger now to deal with other situations.

dcarch

Joanm, that beef also looks perfectly done to me, maybe even a bit overdone (says she who has been known to just eat beef raw). to each their own, though. I cook beef well done for Elery's daughter, who says she will gag and vomit if she sees one bit of pink, not only on her steak but on any one else's too. I did tell her it was too bad, she'd better just not look at mine because I'll cook hers well done, but mine is going to be rare. Don't yuck my yum, I tell her. (grin)

arley, I do hope you are entirely recovered, that's losing weight the hard way, my condolences.

How do I make a large piece of beef. It depends on my mood. Sometimes high heat, sometimes low, sometimes somewhere in the middle. I like it all ways, except well done.

Annie

This was funny to read. I think you guys would be very proud of me from graduating from well done to medium. I was trying to have an open mind and try it rare for a change. I'm just not there yet. And all these years I thought my Mom ate bloody rare meat. It turns out she orders med-rare when she goes out. It just always looked alive to me since I was all about well done. When everything is said and done, it is hard to ruin a prime rib.

Dcarch, interesting information. I would be one of those people that would try souvide just for the ability to get it "exact". I just don't have time to even read about it these days. Was that really london broil? And was it really tender? That would be worth the wait.

My DH was born and raised in Hong Kong, so everyone eats their meat (no matter what kind) cooked well-done. As he points out, when you've bought your daily dinner meat at the butcher's and watched him chase the flies off the carcass so he can cut it up for you, eating rare meat is pretty much unthinkable.

It took me almost 15 years before I got him totally into medium-rare, and another ten before he got into rare-cooked.

When people talk about how Big Government is bad, we should remember that there were good reasons for a lot of the basic regulations, especially when it comes to our food. I told my DH if he'd ever read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" he'd probably be a vegetarian today!

Posted by joanm "----Dcarch, interesting information. I would be one of those people that would try sous vide just for the ability to get it "exact". I just don't have time to even read about it these days. Was that really london broil? And was it really tender? That would be worth the wait."

Indeed, "exact", "prefect" and "repeatability" is what sous vide is all about. The only time you can run into problem is the power goes out when you are cooking.
Yes, very tender medium rare London broil that was.

Posted by jkom51 "My DH was born and raised in Hong Kong, so everyone eats their meat (no matter what kind) cooked well-done. ------"

Well-done meat can be very delicious. Beef, chicken, cooked at 160F is well-done, not bloody and taste very good. Beef, chicken cooked at 212F is way overcooked and dry.

dcarch

I have always cooked my PR roast fast but after doing much reading I have determined that I will try slow roasting this time. I do however have a dilemma half of my guests like med-well and half like med-rare. So I will be cutting my roast in two and cooking one longer. If I have 2 4lb roasts how much longer do I cook the med-well roast @ 200 ?

Thanks

>>Beef, chicken cooked at 212F is way overcooked and dry.>>

Believe me, my MIL cooked meat until it was thoroughly dead. She once made a turkey for Thanksgiving and when I went to carve it up, the breast meat simply shattered, it was so overdone and dry. And she didn't believe (or know how) to make gravy. Possibly the worst Thanksgiving meal I've ever eaten.

But as my DH reminds me, his mother never cooked until she came to live in this country. In HK even the middle-class have servants. His amah used to pick him up from school, and when the family ate crab, she would shell every bite of it for him!

cooking at 200 degrees not cooking to 200 degrees already I think med-well is ruining a good roast LOL

Good question. That was my dilemma last year...how long to cook the roast at 200 degrees to reach 120. Unfortunately I was never able to find any info on cooking time. I'm not sure if you could extrapolate based on the 5 hr cooking time for my 14lb roast. Keeping in mind my roast was not boneless. I had the bones removed and tied back on.

"-- I'm not sure if you could extrapolate based on the 5 hr cooking time for my 14lb roast.---"

I know most advices you get regarding cooking time are based on weight of the meat, but that is not a very reliable way. The better way really should be based on thickness, not by weight. Thickness is what determines conductivity. In other words, if two pieces of meat are of the same thickness and one is twice as heavy because it is twice as long, they will be done at about the same time.

dcarch

My salad for lunch now looks so pathetic.