monica_pa -- And what does the Blue Cross coverage cost you (and possibly your employer)? That $100 for an ER visit is only a portion of your overall cost.

There is a shortage of MD's everywhere, not just in Canada! I live in a Chicago suburb and there's a shortage here. It's not just a problem in 'rural areas'. In the USA there is a shortage of MD's practicing Family Medicine. Medical students paying big bucks to become doctors go into the more financially rewarding 'specialties'. (And those are more rewarding because insurance covers more 'panic' situations than it does routine ones.)

In America insurance executives decide who gets what treatment and at what cost because THEY decide where the money goes. (If you doubt me, ask your doctor.) It sounds as though in Canada MD's are making those decisions.

Americans pay twice as much for a standard of care that ranks lower than some third world nations. Insurance and drug company lobbies control Congress with their campaign donations.

American businesses are hamstrung by having to pay health costs for their employees, and their retirees. How can an American company compete with one in a country where health care is not balanced on Business's shoulders?

Health care in america is so expensive that people take dead-end, low-paying jobs just to get *some* coverage. A single hospital visit can push an individual or a family into bankruptcy. Many Americans are sicker, longer because they have had no preventive care -- it isn't available or it is too expensive.

patti43 -- Thanks for your endorsement of the VA -- a highly praised GOVERNMENT-RUN system since its reorganization several years ago.

There will be big fight here over any changes to our health care because...insurance and drug companies have big money to lose. That's what it will boil down to because so many of 'We, the People' fail to look at facts and run on rumor. I'm hoping MD's and Big Business (other than those with huge vested interests in the status quo) will come down on the side of a better plan than we have now: single-payer insurance.

Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it.
When I worked we had coverage for our family. Which cost about $30. per month. This included eye, dental, everything.
Now we are two and just turned 65 and have Medicare but we are faced with a drug and supplemental plan which cost us around $500 per month. With a 1000 plus deductible through Blue Cross. The older we get the more it will cost. We are healthy and on no medicine. After working for 30rys and not paying for much I find this disheartening. In one way I think your way may not be so bad but....all we hear are the bad things.

If you are a low income or only live on Social Security in the states we have several programs to help that I think included Eye and dental at least for family. Not for the elderly.Medicare doesn't cover eye, hearing or dental. If you should have cancer and are terminal. You most likely will have Hospice help care for you in your home.

It makes you apprehensive to grow old. I like being independent. If you have to go into a Nursing home and you have no money you get put on state. The care is the same I have been told for those either with coverage or on state care.
Thank You for all your input,
Keep it coming.

I feel so strongly about this subject.

I have strong feelings that this country (US) should never require a person to lose everything they have worked for should a catastrophic illness occur. No insurance will cover catastrophic illness forever. In our society, if you can't afford the insurance, you can be one serious illness away from losing everything and bankruptcy.

I feel strongly that if this system could be fixed, it would have been fixed already. It would have been in the best interest of the party in power to do so during their time in power.

Both parties have had 40 years to fix it, it hasn't happened (I feel the same way about our public school education) - the time has been given to fix it and this has not happened.

I feel that all the countries who provide health care via taxes should be deeply studied by a panel of experts here for a two year period, work out the bugs and adjust so it COULD work for us, then implement it within a four year period of time. Just do it.

Doing something of REAL substance of change that has at least a chance of working is better than doing nothing but making vast campaign promises, like both administrations have done for the last 40 years.

This is a real hot button for a lot of U.S. citizens - a few might agree with me, many would regard me as a heretic. I used to think that tax based medical care was a terrible, terrible idea, but I have come to believe that our system is a worse idea. I got tired of waiting for someone to fix it. I now feel that a willing heart and drastic change in our thought process on this is the only hope we have for anything of real substance to take place.

However, I greatly fear that in another 20 years, we will still be talking about how to fix our crumbled health care/public school system. I kind of expect it.

This is something that I've always wondered about...

There are so many commercials on TV and ads on the internet offering insurance - Aflac, Geiko, etc. Their rates seem reasonable and they brag about their coverage.

Are their rates considered expensive too? Similar to you going to your local insurance company and purchasing a policy? One I came across offered worldwide coverage for around $1,600 a year but I can't remember the restrictions.

Just wondering.

I guess I don't understand - when did health care become a "right"? I have always considered it to be something I would buy, like food or shelter. No one owes me that, either. I consider my health care to be my business, no one elses. I don't want a government to be in charge of my health care and to tell me who I can see and when I can see them, even if it's "free", which it isn't, everyone who pays taxes is paying for it. And our government doesn't have the best track record for wisely handling social programs, you would have to admit. Why would this one go any better?

I buy my own health insurance, I have Blue Cross, I pay over $250 a month and I have a fairly high deductible of $2500.00 per year. I have yet to make my deductible, even with a surgery a few years ago.

My uncle, a Canadian, waited over 2 years for his cataract surgery. My mom, an American, got hers done a couple of weeks after diagnosis.

Ont-gal, don't I remember you having some testing done a few years ago for some scary stuff? And didn't you have to wait MONTHS for those tests? I recall MRI's or something like that. I remember thinking at the time that it was just awful that you were having to wait so long and you were scared for an awful long time.

Thank you, Canadians, for your input. Jasdip's DH seems to be the only Canadian who prefers the US way. Why is that? Because his employer offered a great insurance plan and paid for it! Had he worked at a different place, his insurance would have been different; he would have had to pay a lot more if he'd worked at my husband's company.

Insurance companies are businesses, and they mean to make money. Tons of it. I hope the US will join the rest of the industrialized world regarding health care, and soon!

By the way, I have to "wait" about 60 days for a routine exam appointment with my American doctor, but when she orders a test, it's scheduled in a day or two. Seems that's how it's done in Canada, too. It isn't supposed to be drive-through service.

No one is calling health care "free." That's a ridiculous thing to say, one that fans the flames of fear. It means you don't get it.

I don't understand why you don't mind insurance companies running your health care think a national system would be incapable. YOU are NOT in charge of your health care, only in charge of selecting which company you can afford to pay premiums to. Your insurance company is in charge. And you have to be able to afford to make those premiums. Miss one, tough luck. Your premiums probably come right out of your paycheck, so don't lose your job. If you do, I hope you've saved plenty to cover those premiums, because they're going to keep right on coming due.

Perhaps your uncle's cataracts weren't interfering with his vision. My mom's didn't for years. When the time was right, she had them removed a few weeks later.

I just had to wait 2 months for an ultrasound for what could have been cancer (luckily it wasn't)!

I just personally think it's pathetic that the "greatest country on earth", not to mention the richest, should have people suffering or dying due to lack of food, shelter, or health care.

Flamingo you don't think health care is a right????????????? I really can't fathom that. Don't you have something in your bill of rights about "the right to life"? How can you live if you can't afford health care/treatment/operations, etc?

Oh, but I do get it, Shermann. And with Canadian relatives, I heard their side of it and no, Uncle Red didn't have minor cataracts. He waited and waited and got blinder and blinder before finally getting the surgery.

I realize socialized health care is not going to be "free", of course someone is paying for it, just not necessarily the recipient. That is what I meant when I said "free". What do you call it when someone doesn't pay taxes and doesn't work and still gets health care at no cost to them?

I am providing my own insurance, I only work part-time and no benefits are provided to me or for me, I foot the bill entirely and I watch my premiums go up every year. My income may soon cease but I will still continue to pay the premiums because I want to have insurance. Insurance that I had to find myself, it was a chore to get it and to fill out reams of paperwork and I had to comply with all kinds of things but I did it because I'm a responsible adult in charge of my own life. I actually didn't have any insurance after Woody retired, for a few months, and I hated that. So I made the effort and got it. And it's tripled in cost in the last 7 years, but I'll cheerfully keep paying it.

I think some people tend to forget that when they get something from the government, it's because that government took something away from someone else, first. I'm not saying this about anyone here at the KT, but when I see people with their hands out expecting their government to provide them with something, they don't stop to think how the government is going to pay for it, first.

Holy cow. I'm speechless.

Your insurance costs you $3000. a year plus deductible. That's a lot on a part-time salary, don't you think? Does it cover dental? Eye glasses? Prescriptions? What scares you so much about "government" that doesn't scare you about insurance companies spending millions on advertising, paying marketing firms and sales people, hiring huge staffs employed just to deny payments for insured procedures, all the while making huge profits from your premiums?

And, why isn't health care a right? Casey knows our constitution better than we do.

Heck, Sherr....i'm in the states - my health insurance is great, but no vision or dental. $40 for a visit to my doctor and $100 for an ER or outpatient surgery visit. Everything else is covered 100%

And it's only $10,200/year.

But without it, my medical bills for my RA alone would be over $20,000.

I'm retired.

Aflac?

Shermann, why should the government have to provide something for me that I am capable of providing for myself? That seems to be where you and I are having a fundamental difference. I don't want to depend on the government for anything. I am for smaller government, less involvement. And I'm not alone in this thinking, by any means.

I don't have a part-time job because I have health insurance and I don't have health insurance because I have a little job. I have health insurance because it's my responsibility to me and my family. And I don't recall saying that I was scared of the government, please don't put words into my mouth. I will admit to getting really nervous though when I see how much money is being spent in Washington DC. I also believe in fiscal responsibility, as well as personal financial responsibility.

Casey, our Constitution provides us with the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I believe they meant that each person has the right to live their own independent life, not to be used by another man. I don't believe their intention had anything at all to do with healthcare just like liberty doesn't have anything to do with incarceration for a crime.

flamingo, i don't quite understand if your income ceases how are you going to be able to pay for private insurance?
where is the money going to come from? and does this mean you don't recieve medicare at all? (if you're in my age bracket)

I echo what Karen said. Living in Newfoundland our MCP (medical care plan) looks after pretty well all of the costs. The only time I ever had to pay out of pocket for anything at the hospital was the surcharge for a private room when I had my gall bladder out several years ago and that was only $30 a day over and above what MCP would pay for. That amount may be somewhat higher now. I had carpel tunnel surgery last summer and it didn't cost a cent - not for appointments with my family doctor, not for visits to the surgeon, not for any tests and procedures, nothing. The only thing I paid for was the pain meds afterwards and even 80% of that was paid for by my group insurance. So the whole thing was about $6.00 out of my pocket.

If there is an emergency, the wait time to see a specialist and get tests done is minimal. Elective surgery is another matter, however. That may take a while as emergency and medically necessary procedures take priority as thay should. There is often a wait at the ER but if there is blood or heart involved you will be seen very quickly.

If there is a medical reason for surgery, there is no charge. For things like cosmetic surgery, there is a charge as it is not covered by MCP.

I'm satisfied with our system and personally have had no problems. I've heard horror stories as we all have but they seem to be few.

Maybe she has a big pile of money squirreled away that she won't mind spending on insurance. I hope the economy doesn't get her first.

I'm glad you're capable of providing insurance for yourself, flamingo, but not everyone is. Take me, for instance. I've worked my entire life, so has my husband. And we were insured through his work. BUT...we were each diagnosed with cancer within six weeks of each other four years ago. He was old enough to retire and go on Medicare, but, alas, I am still not. My job did not provide insurance, as I, like you, worked part-time at that time.

So, here I am 61 years old, having had kidney cancer, unemployed because of the economy and uninsurable because of the cancer. We worked. We saved. We thought we were prepared. Instead, we got hit hard by thousands of dollars in uncovered medical bills, and now, almost all of what was left of our entire retirement fund has gone bust because of the economy.

I didn't intend to get so personal, but some people think they live charmed lives and don't realize that sometimes, things happen. I've always been infavor of a national health system, but now I'm adamant about it.

I hope your pile of money is huge, flamingo.

i don't quite understand if your income ceases how are you going to be able to pay for private insurance?

I think you are confusing wages with income.
There are other forms of income, which the US calls "Passive" income.
Income from pensions, savings, investments and, if a person has paid into it (by earning wages during one's lifetime or a wage earning spouse's wages) - Social Security - available after a person is in their 60's.

True, monica, but unless you have sizeable savings and investments, it is very difficult to come up with the premiums for private insurance.

flamingo - do you think those who can't afford to buy health insurance shouldn't have the right to treatment if hurt or ill?

Because I think that may be what you are saying. Please correct me if I read you wrong.

ML

About the cataract standard required for surgery here. It is reasonable. People qualify for cataract surgery long before they are blind, and I know this for a fact. I can find out what the requirement is tomorrow, if anyone wants to know. Some older people, like my MIL, just want to get things "done and over with". She was told that her cataracts were "slow growing" (that's how it was described to her), so that determined how long she waited, also. All the while she was telling me she needed her cataract surgery because she couldn't see, she was reading fine print in magazines and threading needles. At the time I looked into what the requirements are to qualify for cataract surgery. I don't remember what it was, but to say you have to be blind, really is an exaggeration. My dad's were faster "growing" and he had his done quickly. As I said earlier... it all depends on severity, as far as speed of treatment. Flamingo, if your uncle preferred the American way, there was nothing stopping him from going to the U.S. to pay for it to be done, if he wanted it done before the criteria was met (and that's a cataract thickness criteria-not a time frame criteria).

Doesn't it seem that there would be enough money for national health care if there was no profit involved? What if no time or money was spent denying health care for certain reasons? What if all the money spent on advertising and executive pay was added to all the money spent by employers and individuals for premiums was added to the pot? What if the cost of a procedure was the same for everyone, instead of more for the uninsured, who are least likely to be able to afford it but aren't represented by a large "pool" of insureds? What if hospitals and doctors didn't have to adjust their rates upwards to cover the costs of "charity care?" What if health insurance companies didn't have to pay lobbyists to keep congress from considering a national system?

I'd like to see a comprehensive comparison of Canadian system costs and ours. I wonder if it is as complicated as our system. Since Canadians' life expectancy is now longer than Americans, their system can't be all that bad.

Hmmm. I have no idea about this, but I also wonder if the Canadian Income tax system is as ridiculous as ours. But that is a whole 'nother matter.

Do Canadians who come to the US to get health care pay for it out- of-pocket? Or does the Canadian system reimburse the American hospital and medical teams? At what rate - American prices or Canadian?

I know that when my son needed stitches while we were in Toronto, we didn't have to pay for anything. Because they didn't even take our home address, I don't know how or if they billed any party in the US. We told them we were Americans in the ER, they stitched him up and sent us back to our hotel. In about an hour. I had forgotten about that.

That's something else to look into.

If you are in the US on vacation and get sick or are in an accident and have to go to a hospital, as far as I know you will get reimbursed when you return to Canada.

If you want to go to the US for surgery or tests because you don't want to wait in Canada, you pay for that yourself.

I think in some instances your doctor might send you to the US for experimental treatment or something that is not available in Canada and if so you won't have to pay.

I think, and I stand to be corrected, that in emergency situations, such as hospitalization from and accident or the like, that our MCP will reimburse any out of pocket expenses we may incur. If medical care in the US is by choice, I think we have to pay for it ourselves.

I never travel to the US without health insurance from the CAA or Blue Cross, not even for a few days. My group insurance covers me here in Canada but not in the US.

Thanks, Casey and Barbara. When we left Toronto after my son's stitches, we were sorry to be leaving. That is a beautiful city.

I just googled the cost of cataract surgery in the US. Looks like it's between $3000 and $3500 per eye. Plus the costs of travel and accommodations. That's a lot of money to pay out-of-pocket to have it done quickly. Very interesting.

I'm sorry Canadians have to put up with such bashing. I would love to have your system.

I think Casey and Barbara are right. I did have to go to the hospital for something minor when I was in Florida once, but my employer plan covered it.

Sherrmann, you made some good points that I hadn't thought of. Part of what you are paying for when you pay insurance premiums are profits for the executives and shareholders of the HMO's. It would be interesting to see a comparison on costs between the two systems.

Flamingo, I'm only trying to clear up misconceptions about our health system, and provide information, I'm not trying to change your mind. I wouldn't presume to do that. While I was eating my salad, I was thinking that it works out nicely that you live there and prefer your system, and I live here and prefer ours. But I don't feel it to be a negative that Canadians have the right to be able to readily access good health care. In November, a local plant is closing and many people I know are going to be laid off. I'm glad they won't have health care worries to add to their problems.

Sherrmann, it is all right that you got personal. Many of us are in the same boat and know exactly what you are talking about. I hope the system is changed soon so that you and all get medical attention.

Many people work all their life and manage to save almost enough for retirement. Then, a few years before the magic date, they come down with a major illness only to have their insurance premium rise until they can no longer afford it. Or the company they work for pushes them out because the insurance company raises its rates and points to that persons name and says, if not for this person your premium would be $XX. Then they have preexisting conditions and are denied coverage from another carrier.

If one has no insurance, this is what happens. The doctor gives you pills, creams for the symptoms, and sends you to another doctor who does the same thing. You just keep being referred until you run out of money.

Flamingo, healthcare is not just a right. It is humane. I would alleviate the suffering of any animal if it were in my power to do so. It is my guess that someone in your family owns an insurance agency or is a doctor.

Doctors have major stock in insurance companies. Did you know that? Seems like a conflict of interest to me.

I am for socialized medicineÂand you can sneer your lips when you say it, just like you do with the word liberal, but I do not care. RussiaÂs revolution was over food while AmericaÂs may be over healthcare.

Doesn't it seem that there would be enough money for national health care if there was no profit involved? What if all the money spent on advertising and executive pay...

A national health care system includes many executives and business offices, just as much, if not more, paperwork and tracking than a private insurance company.
Also advertising. Not to draw customers, but to disseminate information to the public.

The profit that a government department earns is used to supplement monies received through taxation. No "profit" - higher taxes.

Sherrmann, I was typing and thinking so I didn't see your last post before I posted mine. I'm actually surprised that there were so many Americans on here who were interested in hearing about our system. We do love it, and we have trouble understanding criticism of it. Every time I ask anyone around here why Americans wouldn't rather have a non-HMO guided health system, nobody seems to know the answer. Even if you ask people here who gripe about the Canadian health system, most of them would not want to give it up.

My husband just said that American HMO's and hospitals and other bodies that profit from health care are about to roll out a campaign railing against socialized health care as it threatens their profits. I don't know... maybe we are misinformed over here. There seems to be a lack of knowledge/information on both sides. Like I said, every time we hear in the news that "we don't want a socialized health care system", we Canadians scratch our heads and wonder "why not"?

Monica, I don't see any advertising. We get all our info from our doctors and pharmacies. There is probably a similar amount of paper work. I would still guess that it's cheaper to have a system that is not profit driven, but that's just a guess.

You know, I typed out a big long thing but just deleted it. I'll give you the highlights-

I'm not on medicaid or anything like that, I pay my own way. Personal responsibility.

No doctors or ins. agents or anything like that in our families. This is just a belief we hold- we take care of ourselves.

Health care should be available to everyone. And like any other service, I believe it ought to be paid for.

Geesh. How did my post fire up all you folks into making comments about my "bags of money"? I'm not rich. We live a modest life. We make hard decisions and don't buy everything we want. And we pay our own way.

I'm sorry for those of you going thru tough times, I'm sure we'll have our share of them at some point, too. The difference is, though- I won't expect the whole country to change to suit my needs.

flamingo, just chiming in to lend my support; I agree with you.

Bravo, Flamey

How is somebody who makes minimum wage supposed to pay their way to somebody who makes $120.00 in five minutes? Not everybody is blessed with intelligence. Not everybody has the opportunity of a good education. Not everybody has the opportunity to meet the right people to give them a start in life. All of that being said, many people would be glad to pay and are able to pay; however, without insurance they cannot get proper medical care no matter how much they want to help themselves because doctors will not treat them without insurance. No man is an island. The proud will be brought low.

I have found this thread very informative as I knew nothing about the Canadian way of health care. In fact I knew very little about the American way, until I was diagnosed with cancer. I'm fortunate that I have insurance and they have been very good. I do truly believe that with the great medical care that I'm receiving that I will beat this terrible illness.

If I didn't have insurance I know that I would be dying, as I wouldn't have received anything close to the care I've had.

Totally agree Flamingo! You summed it up very well.
We have had times that we had to be on COBRA until benefits started. It's not cheap. In 2007 we were on COBRA for 6 months to the tune of $850.00 a month and that was only for medical. Of course we would have rather spent money on something else but we feel health care is a must have and if it ends up costing us that much every month then so be it.
Better than not being covered.

'Cancer and other life-threatening medications are not covered. Everything you get in the hospital is, but the cost is yours to bear when you come home, and I know they can run into thousands per year....per month in many cases.'
HOLY COW! I can't imagine. When I last had chemo.. for two days, every three weeks, just the chemicals alone were $20,000 each treatment. 20,000 every three weeks... not including the nurses, iv, intravenous saline, blood tests, bags of liquid benedryl.. I'm pretty sure that we wouldn't have been able to afford that! wow!

we pay some where around $850 to $900 for our insurance premiums. yeah, a lot.. but it paid for my treatments.

dont' like the lifetime Cap they have on insurance, most are set a ONE million dollars and whether you use it or not they take $20,000 or $25,0000 away a year.

In the state of Washington, you CAN get insurance for preexisting conditions.

people with NO insurance DO get things taken care of, and it is written off by the hospitals... they go to the emergency room .....

I hope you beat it, Maryann. It's been almost four years for my hub and me. I wish you well.

I don't think those of you who agree with Flamingo understand how fragile one's personal economy is where health care is concerned. One major illness can completely wipe out a family, no matter how well-prepared or careful or well-intentioned they are. If you only have so much money, you only have so much money. I don't think you can get more than one second mortgage on a $180,000 house that still has a first mortgage.

Flamingo, and I guess several others here, do you think we didn't "take care of ourselves" or that we don't want to now? Modest hardly describes the way we have always lived. Your remarks about "personal responsibility" and paying your own way are insulting, as if we chose debilitating illness and squandered our finances, or lived the high life. We didn't, and I hope you never have to spend your money the way we did.

So you think health care should be available to everyone, do you? My care alone was nearly $270,000, and my husband's was twice that. How on earth can simple wage earners save for that? Yes, we had insurance, but it didn't cover everything. How can an uninsured person prepare for that? How can a low-wage-earner afford insurance premuims of $3000 a year, or $850 a month as another poster did, plus deductibles, and still provide for a family? Do you realize how fortunate you are to be able to pay that? And don't tell me you worked hard, got educated, etc. So did we.

Many companies are no longer offering health insurance to new employees, even college-educated, full-time employees. That is going to be a new wrinkle in the health care fiasco.

I see that Katwa thinks hospitals just write off treatment for the uninsured. Do you realize that trips to the ER are much more expensive than the dr's office? That they wait to go, hoping they'll get better and won't have to go because they can't afford the medicine the doctor might prescribe? And who do you think pays for those visits that get written off? We all therefore pay higher hospital costs and insurance premiums.

I don't understand why you don't think there can be a better way. Why can't our country study what works in other countries and apply it here? What are we so afraid of? As somebody said upthread, "It's humane."

I live in British Columbia. Our healthcare system certainly isn't perfect, but the costs of procedures aren't directed back to the patients like they seem to be in the U.S.
I make fairly decent money, but because I support my adult daughter who is unable to work, my medical premium is $10.80 per month. I do pay for my own prescriptions but I don't take anything regularly so that would be an antibiotic or something similar if I needed it.
In 2007 I had major surgery that didn't cost me a cent. For years prior to that I was in and out of the hospital regularly and put to sleep every 6 weeks to deal with a problem that couldn't be fixed while I was awake. Again, no charge to me.
The only time I was charged out of pocket was for an ambulance call when I wasn't able to take myself to the hospital.
I have Kidney issues, so if I need to see a doctor I can usually get in quite quickly - if I go to emergency I am whisked right in. I know a lot of people that have been waiting 2/3 years for knee operations and other surgeries that are not considered life threatening. I am very fortunate (if you can understand what I mean by that) that my medical issues are such that if I need help I get it quickly.
I wouldn't think I would fare so well if I lived down south of our border. I feel so bad for those of you that have those astronomical hospital bills to pay.
Suzan J

I worked for the same employer for 16+ years and always felt blessed and privileged that I could afford health-care under my employer. Then I lost my job and am now struggling to find health insurance. Either no company wants to take you with a pre-existing condition or they charge you absolutely astronomical rates with minimal coverage.
Flamingo, for many it has nothing to do with "personal responsibility". Many have no insurance simply because they cannot afford it. The cost can be astronomical (i.e, food on the table and roof over our heads...or health insurance?). And there are many who are uninsured because they simply cant get coverage (pre-existing coverage). It has NOTHING to do with "Personal Responsibility". I knew before marrying my husband of his heatlh issues. Should I NOT have married him because of the health/insurance risks I knew we "might" face further down the road (which are not life-style related BTW)? Flamingo, your monthly rates, and deductible, are LOW compared to what many pay for private insurance....I'm sure you count yourself very lucky everyday. I know I certainly would if it were me.

I have no problem paying my fair share for medical/health insurance. I DO have an issue with insurance companies having the option of denying, at their discretion, persons with pre-existing conditions the option to even GET health insurance And then, adding insult to injury, the right to pick only the "healthy" ones to insure. Or charging monthly fees that are simply beyond the reach of the average American

I would be MORE than happy to pay for health insurance. At a reasonable cost actually even "above resonable"... if I could only find someone who would insure my husband

Even while I was still gainfully employed and had most of my health insurance paid for by my employer, I was still for a health plan similiar to what they have in Canada. I think they have a much better health care system than what we do here in the States.

Very interesting post. Thank you all for the good information.

It isn't just that for-profit insurance and drug companies inflate health care COSTS for Americans (bad enough to pay more than twice what countries with single-payer systems pay), but they also dictate what health care IS in America because they control who gets paid for what care and treatment.

Ask your MD about reimbursement for different types of care. Ask the office manager how many different forms they have to file, plans they have to be familiar with. All this is inflating cost while limiting care. Note that there is a dearth of young Family Medicine MD's -- because medical students know they will only collect big bucks from insurers as Specialists.

People here arguing for being self-reliant and for private insurance are already paying for charity cases, in addition to paying the million-dollar salaries of insurance and drug company execs and profits to company stockholders. Under a government single-payer system the poor -- along with everyone else -- get PREVENTIVE care. They live better, more productive lives and don't cost millions in care after they are acutely ill.

Public health IS important -- not just because it is humane, but for selfish reasons. Do you want to eat food prepared by someone untreated for TB, HIV, whatever?

Studies HAVE been done. Americans pay much more for a much lower standard of health care. Look at insurance, drug and hospital profits. Look at infant mortality rates. Try to find an internist.

American businesses can't compete with businesses in single-payer health insurance countries as long as they must shoulder health care costs. It's an antiquated system.

Millions of Americans are happy with Medicare. The VA system is lauded today, for care and for economy, where once it was a disorganized mess. Every 'system' has waste. Right now Americans are wasting money and getting less for it than equally intelligent citizens of other first world countries with single-payer insurance. What's good about that?

Laissez-faire hasn't worked out so well on Wall Street. It has no place in health care.

When I was at my CPA's office a few weeks ago, we were discussing the high cost of health care. He opened a drawer, pulled out a piece of paper, and laid it down on the desk in front of me. It was a bill for $78,000, which he explained was for ONE cancer treatment. Luckily, he has Medicare and a supplemental policy!

I think the U.S. healthcare system needs reform, but it's not just because on of issue. Insurance companies must make a profit, and my experience is that they try everything they can to avoid or delay paying claims. Government regulations that are supposed to protect us end up costing us in the long run, and malpractice insurance is through the roof.

Many more reasons---too many to list---but it stinks for the patients. The insured end up paying for the uninsured, and the underinsured take it in the shorts.

I think that we Americans are very fearful of change from the standard way of operation - we are very used to being considered the best and the most advanced. It's terribly difficult for most of us to admit that we have fallen way behind the eight ball, and other countries have not only caught up, but passed us by. It's very hard to admit that our old ideas and patterns no longer apply to this new world and economic situation. It's a very small world now.

When confronted with an idea that has worked for another country of people, so many of us immediately point out all the "why's it won't work" rather than considering the idea of adapting a modification which would make it also work here.

Why?

We don't want to fix what we can't admit to being broken. We are in the process of paying for that attitude right now in many ways.

This is why I fear we will be having this same discussion a decade from now, both on our crumbling health care system and our public school system. We don't much care for change.

I am a patriotic American, I deeply love my country, warts and all, who wants what is best for my country and it's people - I want us to thrive and grow.

Currently, we aren't.

Just my own personal take on it.

The insurance/drug company business will do anything to not have the system change. I think alot of Americans are fed scare tactics and propaganda that make them afraid that we will become "socialists"if we have health care reform. I see it as being similar to the big communism scare, which alot of people (including my grandparents) still aren't over.

I have a college degree and a good job, but if I lost it and had to pay $850/month for COBRA insurance, it just couldn't be done. That is practically my entire paycheck as it is.

Most people who have systems such as Canada, France, and England like their system, and I can almost guarantee that what they are paying in taxes to run that system, is far less than most Americans pay in health care every year.

Money is what it's all about! The few people who are rolling in the dough will freak Americans out in every way they possibly can in order to keep the money coming in.

Jenn, that's what my husband and son think too.

I have to agree with Flamingo. I also have to say that there are state run programs for people who can't afford healthcare, sliding scale type programs. Here in Ky it's called KCHIP. Depending on your family size and income you pay little or nothing. We've been on it, when the ex was making minimum wage. His whole family is on it still and refuse higher paying jobs because they don't want to give it up or their food stamps. I never understood them. I finally decided to help myself and my family and go back to school so I would never have to be on any type government healthcare or food stamps again.

I pay about $60 a month for my health insurance. Blue-Cross, Blue Shield.

I also know what it's like to work in a government run healthcare program and it's far from perfect. I see the flaws it in everyday I work, compared to other hospitals. For instance, linen isn't brought in on the weekends, long holiday weekends are really bad. Nothing to clean the patients up with, no clean gowns or pjs. Supplies are not ordered for long periods of time, last year we didn't have any water pitchers for months. We've run out of urinals, iv supplies, etc.... I've never heard of other hospitals having the same problems.

And before someone asks me why I don't leave, it's because I have too many years invested toward my retirement, the benefits are better than other hospitals and I like taking care of the population we take care of. Our care is really good when we have good staffing and supplies, our patients even come back to visit us when they're in for a routine appointments.

Denzel Washington performed in the movie "John Q." It really portrays our broken health care system. Many people want to stick their head in the sand because they have health care and cannot believe that others do not. Everyone should watch "John Q."

I like our Canadian Health Care System and have never had a problem with wait times. Some doctors do charge you a yearly fee for calling in prescription refills or for Doctor's notes. My Doctor doesn't but a lot of my friend's doctors do so.

Ontario is trying to get the Doctors to also open clinics for those who haven't a regular family Doctor. My Doctor runs a clinic with another Doctor as well as taking appointments in his office. Often Doctors are overworked because they have too many patients because we are so short of Doctors. They finally opened a satellite medical school at the University of Windsor to train Doctors.

I know some cities where women have to wait for mammograms but I have not had that experience here in Windsor. Windsor has also just opened an angioplasty (sp) centre in Windsor so patients don't have to go do Detroit or to London for one.

Patients from Windsor are often sent to Detroit for emergency procedures that cannot be performed here. OHIP covers those services.

What I don't like about our health care system and I think it should be against the law is that Doctors have the right to refuse you as a patient. They are paid by the Government so no patient should be refused. My sister needed a new Doctor and went to see a new woman Doctor that was taking new patients. My sister is a good patient, follows Doctor's orders to the tee but she has a lot of things wrong with her health plus she is a senior. After seeing my sister's medical chart this Doctor refused to take her as a patient. That is just not right. What ever happened to the Hypocratic Oath.

I think Ontario is also on the road to allowing pharmacists to prescribe medications for things like rashes, etc. I often talk to my pharmacist first before my own Doctor about my symptoms.

Also in Ontario we have Tele-Health. We can call toll free and talk to medical personel about symptoms we may have or concerns. They will then direct you to the next course of action whether to call an ambulance or to go to the ER or to see your Doctor the next day. I feel comforted to know that I can call someone in the middle of the night if I don't feel well and I also used the service often when caring for my Mom.

When I know I am going shopping in Detroit I purchase medical insurance before I go. Normally I would buy insurance that covers me for a year but I don't go to Detroit as frequently as I once did. OHIP will cover some of the cost of a hospital emergency stay in Detroit but not all of it.

We have a Health Tax that we as employers and employees pay and it is deducted from our wages much like Employment Insurance is and submitted to the Goverment by the Employer.

Also you can deduct medical expenses on your Income Tax and there is also a Trillium Prescription Plan that is run by the government but I don't know too much about this or if it is still active.

I think we are fortunate as Canadians to have free health care like we do. Unfortunately the way things are going I think we will be paying for a lot more services than we do now.

Anne