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Overlay/Inset Cabs: Help me Sort these pics out PLEASE!

12 years ago

OK. I know the difference between inset and overlay in the broad sense.. Partial overlay not so sure but I think the drawers and doors just are smaller looking and you can see the surrounding area. I don't know the terms very well.

Framless and framed also confuses me a little but I know my cabinet guy quoted me for framless.

Is this partial overlay (or full)?

A)

Our old kitchen cabinets: What are these? Full overlay I know but in the corner it looks inset?

B:

C:

SO, my custom cabinet guy says his overlay cabinets have the look of inset (kind of). I think he puts filler in between so that the doors and drawers, lets say, aren't right next to each other. Here is one of his pics but I don't know if it shows what he's talking about.

D:

Of course, I'll have him show me again exactly what he's talking about. He did show me at someone else's house but now I'm not so sure what I was looking at. I have a feeling he means something like this: These are full overlay with filler, right? It makes them look a bit more inset, right? (if that makes any sense) What do you think about this? The desk drawers look inset- are they? But the uppers & drawers on the right are overlay, right?

E:

I saw this on another site which said full overlay filler:

F:

By the way, we planned on doing overlay on the bottom to save money and supposedly you get more space in the drawers... and inset on the top to give more of the look we're after and we won't have that many uppers. I guess like these:

G:

H:

Now these full overlay look very different from each other. (I and J) One has no spaces in between and the other does. What's going on here?

I:

J:

Are these 2 the very definition of full overlay?

K:

L:

Thanks for your help. It's quite possible I am wrong in some of these classifications!

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Comments (7)

springroz
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I think you got it! I think K is frameless.
herbflavor
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Your old cabs are full overlay-the corner base cab has a partial lip it appears...apparently just on that cab. J has reveal, but not a standard reveal-maybe half inch reveal. Not seeing that too much anymore...in standard reveal cabs[not full overlay] the reveal is bigger.Pic A is standard reveal,which looks good and will save in your budget.[the dark monochrome color makes it work].K and L are full overlay. Is E a sample of what the man is describing with filler strip? G is very nice-the question is on the base-do you want framed or frameless-that's where storage space difference comes into play. Reveals are on the face frame and a function of the door dimensions....framed/frameless is the construction of the carcass. Frameless will always have full overlay.Framed can have a door with reveal or full overlay door.On pic G, I would do the uppers to match the lowers....the inset appearance on the tops is not that significant due to size of doors/darker color/smooth grain. Inset is nice where glass is introduced/lots of crown molding/latch hardware/etc. Can't go wrong with frameless lowers/full overlay and you could get standard framed for uppers with full overlay and save over the cost of doing it as the pic shows and still look beautiful. Pic A will cost someone much less and it is more than nice, but not high end as pic
G is. One's budget drives how to get a desired look if time is taken and the Cabinet Company has some wood species/stain options/maybe an edge profile, even if inset
or frameless/full overlay cannot possibly work due to budget. You're studying the looks/options of cabinet choices: frameless was traditionally a European thing-has caught on here-a bit more precision in construction is needed because the frame was used as part of really stabilizing cabinets in this country. Frameless I think is pricier, and is by no means the only choice. Framed with full overlay doors is quite standard fare-nothing at all wrong with that. Are you tired of your doors or need a new floor plan entirely??
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Custom should mean that you can get what you want that mass production does not offer. Cabinets offered every 3 inches is a function of mass production over the last 40 years or so as cabinets have shifted to being made from outside sources and not by the carpenters who build the house. Most larger cabinet companies order their doors from companies like conestoga who only make doors at mass produced levels. Now conestoga makes them to any size if wanted. Your semi custom companies as a general rule build the cabinet boxes and do the finishing of the cabinet units. Semi Custom generally means they will modify the parts they build which means the face frames and the box size. So you can modify depth and add an extended stile where a filler would go otherwise. A custom company is supposed to mean in its pureist form that they do not have a book of generic sizes and instead they design and price a kitchen of any specs and build it. I personally prefer the abiltiy to work with larger companies that have more years of combined expeirence with more expensive equipment and longer warranty that is backed by the length of time the company has been around. I do not see the worry of how long the local retailer has been in business over warranty concerns when the warranty ultimately comes from the cabinet maker. Now, to be fair most large cabinet companies that are custom need something of a base line to allow a person in a showroom far from the cabinet plant to design and price a kitchen quickly. This creates the need for a product line you can work with as a designer. A book of standard sizes and configurations is needed as a baseline to work from. We end up with a long list of modifications that can be done to a cabinet to create the custom layout where the standard cabinets are modified in countless ways to create the perfect fit and still be able to arrive at a fixed price as a designer who is not an employee of the cabinet maker. I work with 2 companies that have books like this. Yet one is custom and one in my opinion is not even though they call themselves custom. Geppetto will build anything I can dream that is technically possible. Bridgewood will not. Both call themselves custom companies. One is highly modifable (Bridgewood) and one is custom Geppetto. When I meet someone that just needs the cabinets to fit just right with no fillers and wants a low price I use Bridgewood and the price is lower. When I meet someone who wants a lot of personalized look to the kitchen and needs inset door styles I use Geppetto. Hoods are another animal that is a pain. Stanicci makes nice hoods and many custom companies offer them. A true custom company will make the hood themselves with what ever look you like. Stanicci allows a designer to use a symbol on a drawing and in a 3d that has an exact price. I like a wood hood or a custom metal hood from Rangecraft hoods. Ultra modern chimney hoods just do not do it for me personally. To each his or her own I suppose. Inset door style is definetly more elegant when used with a nice finish. I think you have made the right choice.
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I like partial overlay. In my last home, I had partial overlay in my kitchen, living room built-ins and office cabinetry. They were all custom cabinets. The house was a tiny (880 s.f.) 1960's box near the beach. There wasn't much dictating style for the neighborhood (we had a flat roof and our neighbors were in an 1800's Victorian), so we just did what we wanted. In my current home, we have inset cabinets in the kitchen, which I love, but I think if we didn't have a budget for the inset I would have gone with partial overlay again. I just like the look. I think the above examples are beautiful. Here are a few examples from my previous home of partial overlay (sorry, only one kitchen example). This was our living room. We installed the fireplace and surrounding cabinets which were partial overlay. This was a Tuff Shed that we turned into a detached office. Our lot size was only 2200 s.f. so space was tight! The previous owners had installed the shed, but when I was pregnant with our daughter, we turned the shed into our office with custom partial overlay cabinets. Here is the partial overlay kitchen cabinetry (and laundry room beyond) that was installed by the previous owner.
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Fishes: Yes, we do have an eating area. It is narrow, only about 10' wide so we are placing our table with chairs there with a banquette against the wall. There is also a basment door and the door to the back staircase in that area so wall space is limited. These old houses are charming but can be complicated. I am toying with adding glass front display cabinets above the banquette so that I can get my display somewhere. I have a large collection of blue and white transferware that is displayed on shelves in our soon to be gone butler's pantry :(. With the lack of wall cabinets in the L I think having display is tough unless we put it in the sit down eating area of the kitchen. Can't wait until I can get my husband to show me how to post our layout so that people can see what I am trying to explain. I agree that your baking area more than makes up for the lack of wall cabinets. I am going to try to get out to dutchwood next week for a visit and a better idea of all the possible cost and upcharges.Have you gone there yet?
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Are any of these DW's a KitchenAid? That's my top runner... I saw a YouTube video instructing one to use a normal toe kick panel along the full run - to hide the fact that it is a machine - just like it appears in Cat_Mom's pic. You will have to remove the entire toe-kick if you need to remove the machine, but 1) This rarely happens and 2) it is easy to do. So, this is my plan too! Munchladyland - Our DW died and our kitchen remodel is a ways off, but I'm going to get the paneled DW now and just change the panel when we know what we are getting. I think these come with some sort of temporary front (correct me if I'm wrong!), but I think DH can make a temporary one if need be.
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2LittleFishies
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks, herbflavor! I'm going to go through that again before I comment. We are now in a totally different house (not the one pictured) and are gutting and redoing the kitchen. We would like to do some glass on the uppers. Here are two inspiration pics. I love the inset with these kitchens as it seems to go with the "look" of the kitchen. However, to save money I thought we could do overlay on the bottom and inset on the top. We are following the same (similar) color scheme.

Of the above, I like E, F, G, H, I, K and don't like A or J.
catbuilder
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The corner cabinet in your old kitchen has an inset door because it's attached to the lazy susan and won't revolve with it if it overlays the frame. Your comment about overlay drawers having more room than inset is not correct, assuming you are talking about framed cabinets. The drawers themselves are the same size. Only the drawer front (the decorate piece of wood that shows) is different. The drawers in frameless cabinets have more room, because only 3/4" (instead of the typical 1-1/2") is taken up with the "frame". Frameless cabinets also won't have rails between the drawers, so you will have more vertical room.
2LittleFishies
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We are doing frameless cabinets.
2LittleFishies
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
What do you think of the look in picture E?
catbuilder
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Personally, I think it looks like cabinets with filler pieces. It's trying to be what it isn't. Full overlay is a great look, and is what frameless does best.

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