Welcome from the pets forum. Some of the people here are the same, but this is a much better place. Since I'm allergic to salmon, I can't offer any tips about cooking it. When you cook with wine, the alcohol goes away so it's safe for childeren in that respect. I'm sure some people here might tell you not to buy cooking wine and to just use "real" wine for cooking.

Hi vaccumfreak! I never considered using real wine before. Does it make much of a difference in flavor?
Sorry you are allergic to Salmon.Do you eat any other types of fish? I love Orange roughy too but it kinda hard to find here.
Anyways great to know cooking wine wont harm my child.She loves Salmon which I find kinda odd as most kids dont like fish that much.I cooked hers seperately only using lemon because I wanted to be sure the wine wouldnt harm her first! Not trying to have a drunk ten year old,LOL.

"Cooking wines" are generally lower-quality wines; salt has been added and sometimes other herbs/spices/flavors as well.

Cooking doesn't eliminate the alcohol. That's a common misconception and can be a real issue for an alcoholic.

How much alcohol is removed depends upon the cooking method and the duration. So if you add Grand Marnier at the end of the cooking time, about 85% of the alcohol will remain. If you flame Crepes Suzette about 75% of the alcohol will remain. But if you cook a beef burgundy 2-3 hours, about 6% will remain. It's hard to imagine a recipe where every single bit of the alcohol is gone by the end of the cooking time. If it were, most of the flavor would be gone also, which would kind of defeat the purpose of using wine in the first place.

As far as the safety is concerned, it's not "unsafe." But whether that makes it OK for your child in your family is something only you as parent can decide. In some families wine or watered wine is offered to children at the table. There is also wine for ceremony, i.e. the Sabbath. In other families the philosophy is children shouldn't be exposed to alcohol at all and that includes the cooking.

Carol

Thank you for your outlook Carol. The way I cook it is on high and poured over the fish right away.Alot of it boils out and needs to be added back in. I have to cook it this way as I have found many Salmon to be very thick and then the fish doesnt cook all the way through.

If all of the alcohol is not removed,then I think I will stick with cooking wine.At least then it will not be as high a percentage my child is ingesting.The kind I used did have added in herbs and stuff I think and was a Chablis.It was very good!

Most wine is about 12% alcohol, not very different from the cooking wine's 10%. If you are comfortable cooking with one, you can be comfortable with the other. The amount of sodium in the cooking wine isn't all that healthy either.

I do not cook with alcohol because I am scared to ruin a meal. I didn't mean to repeat a misconception though. I was repeating what I had been told. The amount of alcohol depends on how long it is cooked. Here is an interesting article that has times and percentages listed. It also says why cooking wine isn't so good, though that was answered here already. Hope that helps!

Here is a link that might be useful: Wine article

I just used regular wine and skip the cooking wine altogether. If a recipe calls for white wine, I generally use Creamed Sherry as I think it tastes much better in a recipe.

Cooking doesn't eliminate the alcohol. That's a common misconception and can be a real issue for an alcoholic.

But Carol is correct, some of the alcohol is cooked away but the taste is still there.

Michelle

LOL!! "Creamed Sherry"? Sounds good! Cream sherry is a sweet wine and will add quite a sweet taste to a dish.
Cooking wine is expensive compared to wine of a better quality without the salt.
If you worry about the alcohol in wine how about vanilla? My bottle of vanilla extract is about the same percent alcohol as 80 proof vodka. Do you worry about the alcohol in vanilla cooking out?
As for what "they say" about 3/4 of the alcohol remaining after flaming a dish...I strongly disagree. The reason why the flame dies when you pour rum or brandy on it and light it is because the fuel has burned out....or has burned so low it no longer will support combustion. Did you ever flame something? And did you ever try to light some 60 proof grand mariner or drambui? It's almost impossible to do unless you warm it so that some of the alcohol turns to vapor and can be ignited.
And...if you pour 1/2 a cup of 10% wine over a dish....you will have 10% of a half cup of alcohol which would be about 2 teaspoons. If you cook off half of that...it's down to 1 teaspoon and if that dish serves 4 you are down to 1/4 teaspoon of alcohol.
Alcohol begins to evaporate at 175 degrees ( about), so keep in mind that cooking a wine lessens it's volume and concentrates the flavor just as reducing a beef stock concentrates the flavor into a demi glace.
Linda C

I always thought all the alcohol was cooked away too or at least what was left was so insignificant that it couldn't hurt anyone. I am talking about recipes like spag sauce where you add red wine at the beginning and simmer for hours. My mom always cooked with wine even when I was a child. First she used cooking wine then switched to regular wine. I have cooked with it my entire adult life (am now 55) and don't think I have suffered any ill effects. IMHO
Clare

Ah ha, Linda C just opened my eyes as to why I don't like vanilla extract, the alcohol... Thanks!

Both my parents were alcoholics so I may be bias but I personally don't think it's a good idea to let children get used to the taste of alcohol... Just my opinion, no hard facts behind it...

Rita

Same here. My pantry always includes Sherry and Vermouth- two wines that add great flavors to foods. My kids grew up on it and I don't see them having any ill effects. BTW, congrats on having a ten year old who loves salmon LOL!

First off, the "they" that says 75% remains after flaming is the USDA Nutrient Data Library.

Unfortunately, while their charts that I've seen address flaming, stirring into liquid mixture and simmering, etc., they do not list my most common use of alcohol in cooking - to deglaze or otherwise boil down to practically nothing. I'd have to think that either of these would result in negligible alcohol left over.

Vanilla without alcohol is readily available. I buy it at Trader Joe.

There are non-alcoholic wines available. I personally don't see the point! ;) I think they would be suitable for adding a flavor of wine.

Ariel and Fre are two brands I know of. You can find them in the wine section where the booze-y wines are I think.

Here is a link that might be useful: Recipes made with Ariel wines.

It's the flavor of the wine, not the alcohol that makes a dish taste the way it does. I don't know why they even invented cooking wine, as it is more difficult to adjust the salt in the recipe if you use cooking wine. Besides, it tastes awful. I always cook with good wine, wine that complements the dish and may be served with the meal.

Do you have an alcohol-free household or a religious objection to alcohol? If not, then IMHO it is much wiser to expose your children to the facts of alcohol than to hide them. All other Western nations allow children to drink, and the US has a higher rate of alcoholism.

Refer to Linda C's post for the math, and don't worry about your daughter. It should just be another ingredient in the dish. Good wine enhances many a dish, but if the flavor of your salmon is perfect with cooking wine, use it.

I'm getting too long-winded here, but I worried a lot more about the effects of chemicals in commercially processed foods (peanut butter and the like) than about wine (I know about the sulfites in wine), so I tried to serve as little as possible of boxed or prepared foods. Also, just in case you're wondering, I'm not a drinker - a bottle of wine lasts a couple of meals around here, and I don't use it or serve it every night. It depends on the dish, of course.

Sherry

I've always cooked with real wine and since as Linda pointed out there is so little alcohol left in each serving, I've never been concerned about using wine even when Matthew was little. If done right, you shouldn't taste the alcohol anyway. Just the added flavour that a wine/liquer contributes to the dish.

Ann

I'd avoid cooking wine just because it's so incredibly salty. (That's how they avoid paying alcohol tax, and can stock it on grocery shelves--it's got so much salt in it, it isn't classified as an alcoholic beverage because it's virtually undrinkable.)

As far as the amount of alcohol left, ethanol boils at about 173 degrees Fahrenheit. (That's 78.4 Centigrade for you metric fans.) If the dish is above 173 F for any length of time, that alcohol will volatilize. I'll leave it up to the food scientists to let us know exactly how much, but use your noggin: if you've marinated something in an alcohol-containing marinade and then throw it on a 600 degree grill, most of those ethanol molecules will evaporate (and maybe ignite), and you probably wouldn't have much if any alcohol left. If you're making a cream soup or maybe some potage St. Germain into which you stir a dollop of sherry in just before serving, most of that alcohol will remain in the dish.

In my younger days I was a clerk at a business that sent out groceries and supplies to towboats moving barges up and down the Mississippi. I could always tell which boats had alcoholic cooks--they're the ones who ordered vanilla extract by the quart. (Disgusting, eh?)

Arley, yuck..
LOL

I use alcohol in my baking and cooking, but we don't drink it from a glass..My oldest is at the "age" of experimentation..and thinks the smell let alone "taste" of alcohol is disgusting..but he has no problems eating foods that have been given a good splash or two of Liquor, wine or beer...
His favorite baked goodie..Frangelico Coffee Cream Cheese Swirl brownies. LOL
My middle one, 10, LOVES Beer Bread...

I don't know why they even invented cooking wine,

Long ago, when rich folk had personal cooks, the master would salt the wine so the kitchen staff or other servants would not drink it...hence the birth of cooking wine.

I always use real wine too, but if you are concerned about ensuring that no alcohol remaining in a prepared recipe, get an alcohol free wine, like suggested above.

Another tip for those who cook with wine but don't drink it. Take any leftover wine, pop it into an ice cube tray, freeze it and stick it into freezer safe baggies for use later.

Leftover wine is not typically a problem I have to deal with in my house :)

Well, live a little, learn a lot! From now on whenever I cook with wine I'll pour a little into the food!

All kidding aside though, please keep alcohol(uncooked) away from kids. Their brains are developing and alcohol has a devastating affect on developing brains. Babies born with fetal alcohol syndrome are less likely to have positive outcomes than those born addicted to cocaine. And that's the truth. A rare taste from mommy's wine is not the problem, but becoming an habitual drinker is.

OK I'll step down off the soap box now. I am sorry for bringing the forum down, but I work with developmentally delayed infants and toddlers and their families and this is an area that concerns me a lot.

I cook with wine all the time and I do not think it is a problem for my children. I even add it to my fruit salad without heating it at all. 2 tablespoons to a huge bowl of fruit salad amounts to a negligible amount per serving.

As for children growing accustomed to the taste of alcohol and later becoming alcoholics... As older children (preteen etc) my brother and I were allowed a tiny amount of wine with dinner, later we were allowed a glass. I personally never abused alcohol as a teenager or young adult. It was not forbidden fruit so it was not enticing as a way to rebel.

Terri, please share the recipe for Frangelico Coffee Cream Cheese Swirl brownies. Yum!!

-Robiin

Carol, you are right, it's a problem if you have alcoholics in the family that can't drink at all, especially if they are taking the Antabuse. A cousin of mine got sick while taking Antabuse and eating a bowl black bean soup that my mother had added a "splash" of sherry to. That cousin had been told to avoid even mouthwashes and cold medications that contained any alcohol.

Whether you want your child to have whatever residual alcohol remaining is your own choice. As for the cooking wines, it all tastes the same to me, and I think there's a big difference between my teaspoon of vanilla in a cake and that cup or two or wine in some recipes.

Annie

I think I agree with you Robin. I don't think a bit of alcohol added to a recipe is much of a problem, especially a cooked recipe. I just get worried that in this kind of discussion there could be an unintended message sent. And I often can't resist giving little sermons. I'll try harder! - M

My kids didn't like anything that had a hint of wine in it for a very long time. I got out of the habit of cooking with wine while they were small. Now that they are teens, their tastes have evolved. I often use wine now and no one complains.

It's funny, my kids never saw me drink when they were small. Because I rarely did. I just feel like I could be an effective parent if I was fuzzy headed. When they were older and I took to having a glass of wine in the evening they were shocked and may have planned an intervention!

I use alot of wine in my cooking and I have 4 kids...somedays I wish the alcohol wouldnt cook off LOL not for me for the kids!! I always cook with wine that i drink i am not happy with the results of cooking wine I find its too mild of a flavor.

Thanks, Cindy B, aka "trivia genius," for the wine-salting info! Mustn't let the help get tipsy. Now if you could tell me how to get quotes into italics in the follow-ups, I'd be mighty grateful! (But, I warn you, I have an old Mac.)

And, yes, DH and I were raised with wine at the table and in the food, and so were our kids. Not a drinker among us.

And, a little creme-de-cocoa in a chocolate ganache is indescribably delicious. Maybe I'll make a chocolate cake today. The weather is just right.

Sherry

I much prefer real wine to cooking wine. If you don't drink wine with your meal and are worried about what to do with the rest of the bottle (not an issue in this house LOL) then sub dry vermouth for white wine. Unlike wine, it keeps forever.

As for children and wine...unless you have a religious or health reason for not exposing them to wine, the little amount of wine per serving will not hurt them one little bit.

Kids from many cultures are introduced to wine at young ages with no health or alcohol related issues. To me it is strictly a personal choice, not a health issue.

sherrmann, I took a wine pairing class at a local college where the professor told us about the origins of cooking wine.

Off topic, but to answer your question, to put italics around a phrase use the following context, (but leave out the underlines)
<_i> PHRASE YOU WANT IN ITALICS <_>

Hope that helps!!

Well if nothing else, the question certainly sparked an interesting discussion. I really enjoyed hearing everyone's take on this.

Carol

In Milton Friedman's memoirs he mentions that during his time living in France, his children went to French elementary schools. The French children didn't drink milk, they brought wine diluted with water packed in their lunchboxes.

Just as an experiment....and to prove a point, try pouring some 80 proof booze into a shallow heat proof pan...warm it a little and light. Allow it to burn out and see what's left. Then taste the residue.
I lit some 80 proof rum and let it burn out. From my inexact measurements, there was about 1/2 left...perhaps a touch more. Then I let it cool and tasted it. There was a little of the bite of alcohol left....and a pervasive flavor of jet fuel! LOL!
Linda C

How would you make Coq au Vin without it? The recipe I have calls for 1/4 cup brandy and 1 bottle red wine. It is one of my favorite ways to cook chicken. Alton Brown's recipe calls for 2 (!) bottles of red wine!
Clare

I know would happily live forever without Coq au Vin! But here is a version made with non-alcoholic Merlot from Ariel. Copied from the link I posted above.

Petite Coq au Vin

A chicken cooked gently in red wine, now what could be more French or more delicious? I took this classic and used the Rock Cornish game hens, the small flavorsome North American bi-partisan or multi national experiment in genetics and bathed it in a Napa Valley ARIEL Merlot. Add new potatoes to the "casserole" and spinach as a side dish and you'll get more than a "whiff" of the pleasures in store for you at the French flavored tables of Quebec in Canada.

Serves 6

1/2 tsp. Olive oil
2 Rock Cornish game hens 24 ounces, each cut in half
10 ounces pearl onions, peeled
3 ounces Canadian bacon, cut in 1/2 inch pieces
2 medium turnips, peeled and cut in 1" pieces
12 medium mushrooms, whole
1 pound tiny new red potatoes whole with skin intact
1/2 tsp. Thyme
1/4 tsp. Salt
1/4 tsp. Pepper
3 bay leaves
1 1/2 low sodium canned or homemade chicken stock
1 1/2 cups ARIEL Merlot
2 TB sherry mixed with 4 TB water (slurry)
1 pound spinach leaves, washed and stemmed
2 TB chopped fresh parsley

Preheat the oven to 350 degrees. Heat the oil in a 10-inch skillet on medium. Brown the hens skin side down, turning once, 5 minutes. It will be a tight squeeze, but no matter. Remove from the pan and set aside.

Place the onions, Canadian bacon, turnips, mushrooms, potatoes and thyme into the pan and cook stirring 2 or 3 minutes. Add the salt, pepper, bay leaves and pour in the stock and wine. Return the browned hens to the pan, cover, and bring to a boil. Bake in preheated over 40 minutes.

Remove the chicken to a plate to cool slightly, before removing the skin and bones. Leave the flesh in the largest pieces possible. Discard the skin, bones, and bay leaves. Carefully strain the liquid into A fat strainer then pour back into the pan (through a sieve) without the fat. Bring to a boil and let it Boil, uncovered, 10 minutes to reduce the liquid and finish the vegetables.

Stir in the slurry and return the cooked chicken. Place a handful or raw spinach leaves into each of 6 bowls and ladle the stew over the top. Sprinkle parsley on each serving.

Nutritional Profile (per serving)

% of Daily Value:

Kerr

Calories:

316

Fat (gm):

7

Saturated Fat (gm):

2

Calories from Fat:

6%

Sodium (mg):

707

Fiber (gm):

9

Carbohydrates (gm):

31

"Creamed Sherry"? Sounds good! Cream sherry is a sweet wine and will add quite a sweet taste to a dish.

Huge difference compared to white wine and I think Creamed Sherry is excellent in chicken dishes. I generally use less then a T. but it adds so much flavor. I've not noticed that it adds too much sweetness but it is good!

If I am deglazing a pan with wine, say 1 c. or more, I use white wine. Too much Sherry is not a good thing!!

Our grocery store went out of business last year and I picked up several bottles of Creamed Sherry for $1 a bottle.

Michelle

I only use cream sherry in sweet dishes...for example a custard like a zabaglione or a fruit compote with cooked fruit or a tea cake, perhaps a trifle.
For soups like black bean or she crab or seafood bisque I use a cocktail dry sherry.
In other words I use cream sherry for dishes made of cream ( and over ice for dessert!) and cocktail sherry for creamed dishes.
By the way....the sherry is not "creamed"...it is cream sherry, aged differently and darker and sweeter than amontillado, or fino. I suppose they call it "cream" because of Harvey's Bristol Cream. As the story goes Bristol Milk is a kind of Sherry...and when a taster sampled Harvey's newest sherry, she said that compared to Bristol Milk it tasted like cream...hence the name.
I have a soup recipe that calls for cooking a chicken in 2 cups of dry sherry and chicken broth, and then adding onions, peppers, tomatoes etc...The flavor is wonderful...sweet but not too sweet. But once I was low on cocktail sherry and used some cream sherry to make up the difference. It was too sweet! lemon juice helped...but it was still too sweet.
I find that when I add a lot of wine to a dish, it better be long cooking, but for that dollop of wine as a finishing touch, it doesn't need much.
I have been served sea food bisques of one sort or another with an accompanying little vial of sherry to add to my taste. I like that.....
Linda C

Wow,thank you all for taking the time to respond to my post!
I would have to say that the way I cooked the fish,was to boil it in a frying pan with the cooking wine. The fish did not taste of alcohol,just had good flavor.
I wouldnt let my child drink it from the bottle uncooked,LOL.
I also didnt know they made unalcoholic wines.I wonder if they taste as good.
I remember as a kid,my mom made a few dishes with wine as well. I dont ever remember feeling weird after eating them or anything.
I think Linda C is probably correct about alot of the alcohol evaporating,at least the way I cook it on high and boiling.
Thanks again :)

The Antabuse is something guests don't advertise either. A friend of mine made some french onion soup for neighbors and the husband freaked out when he learned the soup had alcohol in it. She found something else for him to eat but who'd of thought? I had never heard of it before.

If you know someone well enough to fix them a meal, you know if they are a "recovering alcoholic". Antabuse has possibilities of causing an awful reaction from things like certain topically applied substances containing alcohol and even certain fumes that Dr's are reluctant to perscribe it any more.
I once witnessed a friend order a margarita without the tequila, but unknown to her it had triple-sec. We thought she was having a heart attack. She was taken to the hospital by ambulance. Very scary thing!
Alcohol treatment centers recognize the futility of the drug. The reaction can be very severe and it doesn't really solve the problem but temporarily.
Any alcoholoic I have ever known (and I have known way too many!) is so proud of being dry, that they DO advertise it....rather like an ex smoker, or someone who lost 5 pounds last month and is laying off fats.
Linda C

Robin, I'll share it tomorrow..Hubby is whinning about the laundry still on the bed...It's 10:13pm...and no one but me can apparently move it...

My daughters spent part of their childhood here in Spain where it was often customary to give the children a few drops of wine in a glass when it was being poured for the adults at the table. But it was diluted for them with a good squirt of the ever-present mesh-covered squirt bottle of carbonated water that graced most tables during that time. It was used for diluting drinks or drinking straight and was useful for moistening a napkin to mop off any food spills on your clothing while you dined LOL. If you see old photos of Europeans dining in restaurants or even at home pre-1970s you will often see the familiar mesh-covered sifon bottle on the table. I always had one on my dinner table. We would take the empty bottles back to the corner store and for a peseta or two (think cents) get a full bottle in return. (Now does that make me sound old!)

This is one way I have made salmon and it was good. I'm accustomed to cooking with wine and wouldn't worry about serving this to children...but you could just give a small amount of the sauce if you were concerned. Here's how it looked when I made it:

1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon dry mustard
1 teaspoon dried thyme
1/2 teaspoon ground black pepper
4 (6-ounce) salmon steaks or fillets
2 teaspoons honey
3 teaspoons olive oil, divided
8 cups spinach leaves
1/2 teaspoon minced peeled garlic
2 cups red seedless grapes, halved
1/2 cup dry red wine

1. Combine salt, mustard, thyme and pepper; mix well. Rub salmon fillets with honey and sprinkle with half the seasoning mixture.
2. Heat 2 teaspoons of olive oil in a nonstick skillet. brown both sides of salmon fillets. Toss spinach and garlic with remaining 1 teaspoon oil in a 13x9x2-inch baking dish. Place salmon on spinach, cover loosely with aluminum foil and bake at 300°F for 10 minutes.
3. Sauté grapes in skillet used to brown salmon. Add wine bring to a boil, season to taste with remaining seasoning mixture; reduce by half. Serve salmon on spinach; top with grape sauce.

Served on a bed of spinach and spiced with garlic, thyme and mustard.

Recipe Source: California Table Grape Commission.

SharonCb

My goodness, that looks good, SharonCb.

OT, but I just looked at your homepage. WOW! I'll think of you with each shovel-full of snow this winter, and as I'm wiping the humidity off my brow in summer!

Sherry

Sharon, your salmon has been on my TODO list for far too long now. I've got to try some salmon recipes soon.

Michelle

Sharon, is this the 'sifon' you were talking about?

I have one and use it a lot. Sad to say they stopped making them.

Here is a link that might be useful: sifon

Arley, yes that's similar to the ones we used to get in every grocery store. They were refilled at the factory though, so they were carried back and forth to the corner store as part of the daily shopping trek LOL. Darn heavy they were when filled too!

SharonCb

I grew up with a case of charged water sitting in the pantry. When it got nearly empty we ordered another. It made the best ice cream sodas....and egg creams. nd as I remember my parents would drink it mixed with whatever alcoholic beferage they were drinking. And the bottles didn't always have the mesh but were often blue colored glass.
Linda C