vjrnts -- We've been having a similar discussion in kitchens (link below) and it looks like pretty much everyone would agree with you.

In our home, there is one original fixture -- a chandelier in the great room. No original panels in this craftsman house, maybe a couple original windows, no other fixtures or built-ins. So we have little to preserve in a certain sense, but as we are working on it room by room we are trying to restore the period feel but including modern appliances and such. We're somewhat limited in the kitchen by the budget, so we'll have a regular ole refrigerator for all to see and probably a jimmied dishwasher panel.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen discussion

I would never hesitate to upgrade the electrical system (it's a safety issue in many cases, anyway), or to replace a plain jane tub with a cooler version, assuming your structure could take any additional weight of the larger volume of water.

I live in an 1840-ish house, but you can bet I've got indoor plumbing (still got the outhouse, but use it for tools). I think that where people get into trouble with old houses is when they don't think long and hard before making serious alterations to how the house looks from the outside (e.g. start changing the fenestration patterns, or begin adding additions) or how the house rooms are arranged inside.

So, I would have no problem plunking a fancy whirlpool slipper tub down in your bathroom, if that's what you crave. I would begin to want to think twice if the tub had to have a major changing of the windows, or if you had to remove a couple of walls and rearrange the rooms' walls. I would also have no problem plunking said tub right down in the original living room if you wanted to convert the living room into a bathroom.

For kitchens, I have no preference whether it's either original features or frankly different, more modern ones. We have been updating our cooking spaces since a week after our cave-cooking ancestoresses organized the first one, anyway. I don't like to see artificially older styles, but that's purely a personal taste. The danger comes when you're planning the upgrade, and the windows aren't where you want 'em and you start to think, well, we could move it, or change it and while we're at it, bump it out here, then put in an addition, and before you know it you've got a completely different-looking house than when you started.

I believe remuddling comes in when you start to bury the structure's original "bones" with poorly thought out add-ons (or take-aways) or begin to tear out old components simply because they are old, only to replace them with modern facsimiles. Windows are at the biggest risk for that, which is too bad because many older windows, can be brought up to modern standards within a reasonable cost and/or home-owner effort.

The very best advice I can give to new (or even new-ish) old house owners is take your time before you commit to any change. Satisfy the "make it ours" urge by restricting yourself to clean-up, spruce-up (paint/paper/repolish floors) jobs and then live in the building for a year or more. The ideas you bring in when you arrive will surely be changed, for the better, once the house has had time to tell you what it really needs.

The other practicality is that often people are a little under the gun financially when they've just moved and taken on a new mortgage, etc. Give your pocketbook a little breather, and stow away some cash for these projects. Then when you're ready, you'll not only have better, more informed ideas, but a little bankroll to do it right. Which will make it easier not to have to compromise so much on quality, which is always more expensive. Plus any project you were thinking of, that evaporates after you get more used to the house will leave you with more resources to devote to the one that really needs it!

Molly~

PS When you are doing any necessary upgrades to electrical, plumbing search out for and insist on workers who know how to do that without damaging the older elements of the house. Don't let an electrician dictate that you have to tear out all the plaster just so you can have a few new outlets, for instance. You can have the outlets, AND keep the wall surfaces, but you may need to lose that electrician if he won't take the time to do it right. Don't let tradesmen tyranize you into harming your building.

M

We've got an 1830's house..last time anything was done to it was back in the 40's. There have only been five other families to live in this house. We've been here almost 10 years and haven't even gotten to many of the things that need doing because as is often the case with old houses you have to take care of what's been neglected over the years BEFORE you can move forward with updates.
Molly made a good point about living in a house BEFORE you mess with it's bones. Until you've spent at least a year in a house getting use to it's quirks you aren't familiar enough with it to judge how the changes you are planning will affect it.
I cringe when peeps buy old houses and start ripping things out right away or start throwing "no maintaince siding" on and end up hiding all the lovely gingerbread or fishscale shingles or changing window sizes.
Having it updated inside isn't always a bad thing. You have to be able to function in a house BUT when the house no longer resembles anything close to the original footprint,especially on the exterior and every window, door and wall has been redone to modern standards then why even bother to own a old home.

Thanks for your thoughts, and for the link to the kitchens forum discussion. I'm glad to see that I'm not out of line in my thinking. Obviously, some updates are desireable, or we'd all still be using outhouses, but, man, some of the awfult things that were done to these lovely old houses in my new neighborhood in the 60s and 70s...

One example: Our sellers told us about the previous owners removing the vinyl/aluminum (dunno which) siding from our house and finding the traces of the corner coins and dentils and other detailing that had been removed to install the siding! They restored the trim, one side of the house per year. It's gorgeous now, although I do have to say that I'm not looking forward to paying to paint it! But, heck, in the 60s the house was 40 years old, not considered historic (yet) and I can see the longtime owners (they were there from the 50s to the 80s) thinking it would just be so much easier to deal with siding. But the house has so much character with the coins and the dentils!

Oh, well. I will not be guilty of such a remodel. Besides, my friend on the neighborhood planning board would stab me. :-)

Carol in NY wrote:

"BUT when the house no longer resembles anything close to the original footprint,especially on the exterior and every window, door and wall has been redone to modern standards then why even bother to own a old home."

Amen, sister!
Molly (in NY)

All that is old is not necessarily good. I'm sure old homes can suffer from original ugliness, tastelessness, and senseless floor plans just a new homes can; they were just probably made with materials that last longer!

Please, a moment of silence in memory of the 1920s house across the street from me. A contractor gutted it and removed 100% of the charm, including the butler's pantry/pass through, original sink with wallmount faucet (just like in Bungalow Kitchen!), beautiful moldings, nice wooden double-hungs, etc. etc. He stuffed it with whatever he thought was trendy these days like travertine. He painted it beige, and it now looks exactly like a house you might find in a newer suburb. The windows especially are gosh awful ugly. The contractor obviously wanted transformation, not restoration.

And a moment of silence for the house we sold a year ago that had hgh quality original wood cainets in the kitchen. May the cabinets rest in peace as their home gets gutted in favor some new-fangled something.

"... when you have an old house that has a style of its own, how far do you go to preserve that style, and how much do you compromise style to add function or comfort?"

The main points that affect modern residents are not very visible: upgraded HVAC, electric and plumbing.

The kitchens and baths can be done to have modern conveniences and a good layout, with a 1920's "feel" in the cabinet styling (plain square-framed, usually white), counters (red or green linoleum was popular, as was subway tile with a racing stripe of a bright solid color), and color scheme.

Other living areas can have better wiring, yet keep the 1920s "feel" with wall color and drapery style.

HOWEVER!!!!! Remember that Art Deco and the start of the modern movement in design started in the 1920s ...

An interesting question, no doubt the opinions will vary widely. I've allways felt that it's an old house in the 21st century, so there is no reason for me to try and keep it an old house in the 19th century (when it was built). My wallpaper and paint choices, both inside and out are not historical. There isn't a scrap of Victorian style paper in the house, I actually don't like the patterns/colours much... While I own a lot of old furniture, the ages vary from Victorian to 1940's and the decor is not particularly like it would have been in 1871. However, the house has a specific style and is still an old house, I don't intend to change that. I have no problems painting the windows a non-historic colour, but I certainly won't be replacing them either. Main features like the trim, fireplace, slate roof and stone cladding are all staying and some have been restored, but other things like the ancient heating system have been replaced. The wiring and plumbing will all be modernised at some point as well. They were never of any major historical importance to the house and are mostly hidden behind the plaster, so I won't miss them. The garden isn't landscaped historically either, although I have a formal 1920's style, I still enjoy growing the new plants as much as the old ones.

I've also done some remodeling work around the house, and while many people cringe at the idea of it, I personally feel you can tastefully extend and alter old houses. This house has undergone plenty of changes over the years, why not continue by adding some of my own. History is made by doing things, not just preserving them. I've replaced the old (rotten to mush) 1920's conservatory with a newer one which is actually more in keeping with the scale and style of the house. It's bigger, plus I've mirrored the shape/design of the windows on the house. Inside I've moved a door to turn a never used spare bedroom in to a walk in wardrobe, but I used trim in the original style so it looks like it should. I've also removed a whole wall between the drawing room and dining room to replace it with framed glass and double doors. The two rooms are both lighter and feel bigger, plus they easily open up for more space or can be closed off for convenience. It just makes the space work better. I'm also having a stained glass rooflight installed in the middle of the hall ceiling as I have a big three story hall, but for some reason the ceiling is rather unremarkable (possibly not original?) and a little more light would help it. I do have a big 10 foot window in there, but a large old tree I want to keep blocks a lot of the light from it. While I'm open to just about anything with decor, regardless of historical accuracy, when I do big changes that are permanent I insist on being very accurate. The conservatory had to be wood and I had it trimmed just like the house, just as the roof light will be cast iron. The only concession I've made is dual pane glass in the conservatory, simply because building codes require it, plus the old one with single glazing was difficult to heat/cool and resulted in large bills. Practicality does win over originality sometimes, but only for very good reasons. Otherwise, these alterations are approximately as they would have been constructed when the house was built.

Overall it's what you like and how important you consider the original materials. But, I don't feel anyone could say this house has lost it's character or historical importance.

Neighbors on my block are having a fit because owners of an old victorian enclosed the porch. I guess they tried to fight it but did not win. Now a young couple live there and seem to be very happy using the porch as a den. I think it depends on how long you plan to stay, your budget, etc. I have seen old homes wrecked by people who had no clue how to update. We have tried to maintain the interesting qualities of our home and the character without ruining the history of the home. Hard to do.We knocked down only one wall to update and that gave us a bigger masterbath. My dh also created a hall closet out of one long bedroom closet. When we moved in luckily alot of walls had already been repaired etc.and the electrical was upgraded. I fought with my dh tooth and nail to save the kitchen pantry. We compromised and moved the fridge into part of it. Our work has been mainly cosmetic.We spent one year just painting!!! I still have a hole in my bedroom wall that I cover with a picture. Plaster walls are a pain in the neck to strip, fix etc. They just have their own appearance and are never perfect!!! My hallway is taking me forever to get done. I still have tons of scraping, patching, priming and painting to do! I have seriously considered getting a helper to come in because I am tired of working on it!The house is functional now but still not where I want it to be cosmetically. !S.

pretty much what housekeeping said. i would totally, in an instant remove any faulty wiring. knob and tube circuits are okay if not overloaded and the wires are good. i would and did, bring the whole house up to current code. i couldnt take one outlet per room, no heat, etc. there is no way any electrical upgrades are even that noticeable except lighting, and i would even go state of the art on that, unless an old chandelier was involved. yes, you defititely need and electrician that knows how walls are built and how to cut plaster w/o the whole wall coming apart. and i do, but if i did your house i still WOULD NOT GUARANTEE TO FIX ANY PLASTER THAT FALLS OUT simply because i havent found a way yet that will cut a hole that will not make plaster fall out 100% of the time. i thought i did. but when i made holes in the closets for light switches, i discovered that inside closets only got one coat of plaster and it is very thin. cutting holes in a 8-10 baseboard is alot safer cause you have the base board to hold it to the wall. but this isnt a class in electrical work. definitely try to keep the old windows and wood trim/doors. those pine cabinets are a light colored wood originially, dont forget. you can sand and restain with pine and they will be light colored. got to admit alot of built in cabinets suck and theres usually no way to fix them so they have to be ripped out like a wisdom tooth with roots half way down your neck.