I appreciate this thread because just tonight (rather, late afternoon on our drive to a vegan potluck -- how happy am I to find people like us here!) I was telling my husband that before I started reading this Kitchen forum I did not know there was snob appeal about knobs (and a "show-off" name brand to boot).

There are many things about which I learned here (Kitchen forum) but the biggest ticket one we'll be incorporating into our kitchen is the Never-MT.

I still have moments (which I've shared before) of wondering if it's all (the whole remodel) "worth" it. When I think about how much it's all costing (financially plus my swearing around the children!) and the fact that we're a young family, I'm left feeling conflicted. On the one hand we should not be spending the money, instead squirreling it away for the future. On the other, since the children are so little and we're no longer doing big travel (other than our once- or twice-yearly visits to Japan to visit family ... aaaah, the joys of a trans-Pacific flight with two toddlers), it's okay to spend the money so we're happiest here in our house, where we'll mostly be for years to come!

I handle our finances so I guess it affects me more. My husband, who is ten years older than I (and the sole financial supporter of our family), is totally blase about it (the financial aspect), saying "it's only money." No pun intended, but now that's rich! I am crazy-mad for David Mamet's line: "everybody wants it -- that's why they call it money!"

Like many here, I would suspect, we have a real and tight budget. We're not having any "well, while we're at it we may as well"s -- the only one I did have was because of money I received for my birthday, so I paid for my "extra" that way. It will literally be my gift.

As I wrote in a different thread, for us function always trumps form. Always. Now that's not to say we won't (hopefully, fingers crossed) have a beautiful (to us) kitchen when we're done! But every single thing we've chosen, every little and big thing, is to satisfy our needs for how we use our kitchen as individual and collaborative cooks.

We spent over a year researching, researching appliances, configurations, lighting, ergonomics .... And during that time, we were also able to articulate our aesthetic visions and marry it with the function.

When natesgramma recently shared her kitchen pictures I wrote how much I appreciated her detailed (open drawers / doors) photos -- to me, that's what is so great (& helpful) about GW! There are some clearly (judgment call) vanity posters, where we see pretty (and tres cher) pictures but not the function. And I think that was a bit of lynette63's point, the lack of planning in her neighbor's kitchen.

Sure, the kitchen which came with this house was ugly, but with some paint and minor cosmetic changes we could've "prettied" it up. But it still would've functioned like crap. And we could have an ugly kitchen which functioned beautifully, but then we would have "prettied" it up for that's the sort of people we are. Beauty matters to me. I'm vain about my personal appearance and my home because I want to be impressed. I don't need to impress others (although let's face it, encomium feels great!), but I want to just breathe easy in my body and space.

The neighbor's kitchen is not my taste, but what struck me when looking at the pictures is how poorly the space appeared to be planned. I understood it to be a custom house, which meant time and money went into its plan. I just felt bad for the owners knowing (well, assuming) that when they move in and start using the space they'll notice all the little things which are out of whack and kick themselves for not having thought of it before the build .... I've no doubt that when our remodel is done there will be things I'll wish we'd done differently as well, and we, too, shall have to live with it / them. We can only afford to do it once. Like divamum surmised, maybe being on a budget makes us more accepting of less-than-perfect?

Well, I think I've veered far off the original topic by now! So I'll leave that when I was in high school (mid-late '80s) I both carried a Papagallo bermuda bag (yep, had the monogrammed cover too!) and had a Flock of Seagulls hair style. Kinda makes you wonder about my vanity I referenced above, eh? Luckily my sons think I'm a princess (esp. when I wear skirts or dresses), so maybe I can fool them when they discover my old yearbooks ....

rmkitchen, what a lovely thoughtful post.

Like you, even though we're 90% done (and even though are budget has been absurdly low compared to many/most), I'm STILL having moments of "Ack - should we be spending this money when the economy looks about to tank?" and really feeling quite queasy about it all.

But then I see the difference that the changes to the structure of our house have made in the fabric in our lives. My daughter's entire existence is different now we have her big attic room upstairs - her social world has changed as she can invite friends over any time (since they can go upstairs and play without getting in the grownups way and, to be honest, it doesn't matter if I've cleared up the living room since they don't need to play there!) and, for the first time ever, she's "the one with the cool room and place to hang out". For an only girl, this is a REALLY big deal and she's happier than I've known her in quite some time (and, not at all by the way, having more privacy has prompted her to WILLINGLY spend time with the family - she wants to join us because it's not imposed by too-close-quarters).

The new kitchen has completely changed our dynamic as a family, as we "hub" in this friendly and useable space which just invites us all to hang out. We're cooking better (thus eating better), talking better (and more), the TV is turned off more often (HALLELUJAH! I hate the damn thing, but the other two are junkies), we're more organised (because the basic stuff of life has somewhere to GO and be PUT AWAY). My professional life is easier because my daughter's old room is now my music studio where I can practice and teach uninterrupted whenever I feel like it (without impinging on anybody else's activities in the house - we can all just get on with our thing as needed).

So, every time I have a panic attack (and nothing I have ever done - including getting married, giving birth, and singing in front of 30,000 people - has ever given me such angst as this remodel) I just think about what we've "bought". It hasn't been "home improvement" as much as "life improvement". It really HAS been that significant.

whoops! As I was saying...

So, every time I have a panic attack (and nothing I have ever done - including getting married, giving birth, and singing in front of 30,000 people - has ever given me such angst as this remodel) I just think about what we've "bought". It hasn't been "home improvement" as much as "life improvement". It really HAS been that significant, and in the light of that, a less-than-perfect counterop seam, a tile border that isn't quite what I had imagined, "boring" white appliances and slight gradations of maple coloration seem to be pretty trivial, really. As far as living our lives in this home is concerned, it's been an unqualified success for us.

:)

The couple we visited a couple weekends ago did not know about full extension drawers, Blum glides, and most of the "stuff" we on GW have added to our cabinets/kitchens. They depended on the builder to put in whatever he thought was best for them. Perhaps the owners of the house in question depended on the "experts" i.e. builders to tell them?

Let's face facts. For most of us here, if we didn't have access to GW, our kitchens/homes would be totally different.

Fashion -- tres chic, red sole, will be destroyed if you step in a puddle, scuffs easily, mars instantly, can't run far, can't stand for hours, can't wear next year :) for $610:

Function -- waterproof, insulated, comfortable, good traction, excellent comfort on concrete, resists abrasions, marks and chemicals for $156:

{{gwi:1574109}}

Dear heavens!!!! I do believe I've just advocated a kitchen comparable to Aerosoles!!!! NAY!!! NAY, I say!! No compromises! I want it all! I want a kitchen that performs like a Red Wing boot and looks like a Christian Louboutin pump. YIKES! (She says, hanging her head, and admitting a penchant for Birkenstocks, which are ugly, out of style, and comfy but not otherwise practical--just like my old kitchen. Sigh. When the kitchen is done do I have to start wearing my pretty shoes?)

So many thoughtful posts. When I was in the planning stage, two of my sisters were quite outspoken about the fact that I was remodeling a kitchen in a home that was only 8 years old, with appliances that were less than two years old. I guess it does sound a little wasteful, but at the time the house was built, I had no interest in cooking, and would, in fact, have been perfectly happy to have omitted a kitchen from the floorplan. The kitchen that I ended up with was builder grade all the way, and a really bad layout to boot. It didn't look all that bad, but it had faults like an OTR microwave (not knocking those of you who have them--just didn't work for me), a cheap range stuck in a corner, and a dishwasher that sounded like a freight train coming through.

A few years later, I discovered that I enjoy cooking and baking. We upgraded the appliances, thinking that would make a difference, but it was like putting a pig in a prom dress. All it did was look better. Function was still just as bad, and felt even worse because now it mattered to me. We decided that, since we're here for the long term, we would go for a total remodel. We sold the appliances to my MIL, ripped out everything but the tile floor, and ended up with a whole new kitchen.

There were, and occasionally still are, moments when I question the soundness of the decision from a financial aspect. However, I walk in that kitchen every morning, and smile. I love working in that room, and, corny as it sounds, it has truly made a difference in my life. It means a lot to me that my husband gave me the gift of a new kitchen, both in the money he earned for it and the hours he spent on the DIY parts, and, nearly two years later, I still (okay, here's the really corny part) get tears in my eyes and have to stop to give him a hug of thanks sometimes when I'm cooking dinner.

I've been in my home since 1994. when we moved in I had no idea that my kitchen was so dysfunctional. It's taken me all these years to figure out what exactly were the bad parts and what needed to be fixed.

So sometimes I think when new houses are built and people need to make decisions without ever having lived in a space it has to be very hard, and often the kitchen just becomes a totally non-functional space because you don't really know what you need until you've been there. So I can completely see why people quickly remodel new spaces.

pllog, your entry gets my vote as Best Post Ever - I am laughing so hard (all the while thinking, "She is so right!") SHOOOOEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!!! The perfect analogy.

I guess most of us remodel because we're dealing with worn out Payless Shoe Source, and wind up with Aerosoles or Naturalizers (even if we splurge and buy them Bruno Magli buckles and charms to fulfil our need for sexy bling)

:)

what sort of kitchen would $2.00 Old Navy flip flops be? Because if the kitchen represents my footware, that's what I should have gotten. rofl.

OK, this shoe analogy is really bothering me, because it's hitting a little too close to home! :)

My DH thinks I'm nuts for the amount of money I spend on shoes. The problem isn't that it's a lot of money. The problem is that the shoes are ugly. Well, maybe not ugly, but certainly not stylish.

Probably my favorite shoes are a pair of well broken-in, very casual, really ugly, flat, black Mephisto slides. They aren't quite Aerosole ugly, but they're close. They cost about $400, which is insane, if you ask me, especially for casual shoes. But they are sooooooo comfortable, they do look decent enough that I can wear then outside my house, and they will never wear out!

I guess I really am a function-first kind of gal, and like I said before, I really do appreciate quality. Fashion (obviously!) comes way down the list for me. Am I going to end up with an ugly, casual, flat, black, well broken-in Mephisto kitchen?! Yikes!! Wait a minute! I kind of like the sound of that. :)

If there were ever a shoe that perfectly illustrates function over fashion, holligator, Mephisto would have to be it. I call mine my ugly shoes, but on a trip to NYC, I was the only one in the group that didn't have aching feet after a few hours of sightseeing.

Function first is a great way to live, whether its shoes or kitchens. My kitchen layout is a little unorthodox with a lineup of refrigerator, ovens, dishwasher, and sink right in a row, and the cooktop on the other leg of the L, but it works beautifully with my island within reach of all of them. Very little movement is required, no matter what I'm doing, and, on the rare occasion that I have a second cook, the island is wide enough that he or she can work from the other side. I'm so glad I didn't listen to three different cabinet stores who wanted me to do an island cooktop with a refrigerator at one end of the L, and ovens at the other. It would have looked more like a lot of other kitchens out there, but it wouldn't have worked nearly as well for me.

I apologize. I didn't see your reply about your countertops until just now. Glass countertops are definitely one of those things that would be for show and not for use. I'd have cracks and chips within days, and just wouldn't enjoy the cooking experience at all if I had to be worried about a surface like that. The glass sure does look nice in the pictures, though.

Again, I agree with cocontom. If Amtico is what you want, get it. I like it. Coco is also right about laminate. It's come a long way, and there are some really nice choices available now.

I'm sure whatever you choose will turn out great. You're off to a really good start with those ultra-cool cabinets.

the thing though is that Mephisto is actually like having a big "ugly" range. One that belongs in a hard working kitchen. They are glamorous but we all like them because we know they do the job. And even though they're not quite attractive we all know they cost a fortune so we see the value in them.

anyone who knows Mephisto looks beyond the looks of the shoes and says "ahhhh....expensive!"

or maybe I'm just a snob??? lol.

(I'm not a shoe girl but I'm a purse girl...)

plllog, I LOVE your post. I say this having spent 3 hours at the Napoleon show at the MFA in Boston yesterday in a pair of Tod's with 4" heels. How's that for an analogy??? :-) I'm afraid I might end up with the smart kitchen which is best looked at from across the room with a wine glass and petit fours (purchased of course).

Anyhow, it doesn't often happen but I disagree very strongly with Sweeby's post listing what I understand as separating fashion from function:
And of these six 'dream' kitchens:
- ONE had a really good work flow,
- NONE had a prep sink,
- NONE had two dishwashers or dish drawers, and
- NONE had a warming drawer near the cooktop.

In my kitchen which I'll submit works very well not just for one cook but for two, I have one generous sized sink that two people can comfortably work at and have never missed a prep sink. I considered it but couldn't see the purpose in losing counter space and worse yet! cabinet storage space in a smaller (although large to me) kitchen where fridge, work space and stove are in easy reach of the sink. & When I was considering a second sink it was really more a bar sink since by the wine glasses and service area than a prep sink. Given my finished kitchen, I'd still like one of these but I know I made the right choice not to have a second sink in my kitchen and while I'd love a bar area one, I can firmly say I wouldn't want it in the kitchen proper and I can't see where in my house I would want to allocate space for a bar sink. But a prep sink? If you have a smaller to mid-sized kitchen, a good sized main sink with useable work area on either side of it, I don't think you need a prep sink. In a large kitchen such as Sweeby's, sure I can see the purpose.

TWO DISHWASHERS? Never! - in fact, I'll submit that if I felt the need for 2 dishwashers that I'd have to take a big step back mentally because I'd think I'd fallen for the fashionable concept of maximizing realestate than designing with function in mind. It is preposterous to me that having 2 DW's defines that you've considered function at all, let alone favoured it over fashion. I used to have a warming drawer right under the cooktop. It used to house my cooking utensils :-). While I don't dispute the value of a good warming drawer, I don't think it is a must. I now have a cooktop with a very good simmer (Wolf cooktop 300btu simmers on the small burners and 600 on the larger ones). I even keep custards and whitesauce dishes warm on here. :-) While I'll confess that if it hadn't meant giving up storage that I didn't want to give up, that I might have gone for a warming drawer, it would have been by my oven to keep my oven baked dishes warm rather than my cooktop ones which do wonderfully on the simmer IF I need it at all.

I enjoy reading this because this is what I struggle with. I have lived with my kitchen for two years now and I have discovered what I like and what I don't like. I have oak cabinets and they were expensive when they were put in...some great custom features too. I feel so wasteful getting rid of them all together. I posted the "future fashion" post because I am so concerned about spending money and then in a year feeling it is outdated. I like to go with things that will have classic style and won't date a house. My furniture is all neutral and fairly non-descript for this reason. As I head into this kitchen remodel I know what I want and maybe I need to throw others expectations out so that I go with my gut. I have only so much money and there is the pool to sink money into, windows to replace and a kitchen. I would like some left to save too!
My thought is I go as neutral as possible so that as trends change I can add things in to "update" my kitchen.

I've been thinking a lot about this topic of fashion vs functionality lately too. I'm convinced that grandmothers are spinning in their graves today, seeing what we're all doing to their houses, LOL. "You got rid of all the carpet? We thought we had finally made it when we could wake up in the morning and not feel a cold floor against our bare feet! It's so much easier to vacuum than to keep hardwood clean and dust free! Why would you want to replace the vinyl kitchen floor with real tile? Do you know what a pain it is to maintain grout? And stainless steel shows every fingerprint, not like our avocado refrigerator!"

It does seem kind of ironic that in a lot of areas we've moved back to products used before our parents or grandparents, and products that generally require more maintenance, not less - in a time where it's pretty much guaranteed that every household has two working parents.

I fully expect that the cycles will spin again. Who knows, maybe even that 70s panelling will come into style again - no smudges or painting to worry about!

sandsonik, personally, I think that vinyl is MORE work, not less. I used to find that vinyl would both scratch and get scuff marks that I used to have to scrub and scrub and scrub to not-quite-eliminate. Tile grout can be protected with sealer (which won't of course completely eliminate dirtied up grout by itself) and I find that vacuuming the tile rather than sweeping it does a much better and cleaner job of cleaning up the brown-making grout lines. I do sweep often during the week but once a week I do the kitchen and bathroom tiles with my VC (and its tile cleaner attachment).

Also, use a good vacuum cleaner on hardwood with a hardwood bristle (I have a Miele with the separate hardwood brush attachment) and it actually buffs the floors as it cleans. My floors are clean and shiny - shinier now than when I bought the house. I used to live in rentals which all had carpet and I can say without a shadow of doubt that hardwood and tile are easier to clean than carpet. BUT you need a good VC.

It's interesting - I find the designer clothing analogies more and more appropriate, really, and it's helped me to clarify my own thinking as I realise that my opinion regarding kitchens is no different than my opinion on most other material goods.

I love beautiful things. I love luxury fabrics, clever designs, fine leathers, good food and elegant surroundings.

However, 1. I do not have the kind of income to indulge in the elegant luxuries I often admire and 2. I LOATHE conspicuous consumption, where it's clear that money has been spent only BECAUSE it was "expensive" and not because it served any function or had any particular aesthetic appeal.

So, where does this lead me? I eschew things which have zero (or limited) function and exist ONLY to have the "designer" label (similarly, things which are actually quite ordinary, but which cost the earth ONLY because they have the designer label). And for the luxuries I do want, I seek them out in sales and at significant discount. For instance, as a singer, I require a lot of evening clothes, and I like the good stuff. Can I afford it?! Not a chance. But I can go to the Saks and Nieman outlets, wait for the last-ditch-clearance-rack sales, get lucky finding high-end stuff in unlikely places (it's always worth a look, right?) and generally keep my eyes open.

Now, as I said before, this only really is possible when one has time - when I've been really busy, there's no doubt I've spent more because I've had less time to do the "seeking out" part of this equation. But, even then, I find it very difficult to pay an overpriced top dollar.

Granted, this is all very personal - one person's "elegant" is another's "conservative and boring" and somebody's "cutting edge design" is another's "Gawdalmighty how do they live with THAT?!", so I accept that it's terribly personal and choice is what makes the world go round.

One final point: a lot of these "must-haves" that are creeping into kitchen design aren't really "necessary" at all, as mindstorm so eloquently demonstrates. Useful, perhaps - but maybe not for everybody, and maybe not so useful as to be indispensible. I think it's very easy to get into "zOMG 'everybody' has one of these so it MUST be required now!" (especially if a KD is pushing for something) mentality and not REALLY asses whether we need it for ourselves; I think this is where the tight(er) budget really focuses the mind since you can't always just give an extra a nod.

Goodness me but I'm Rambly McRambleton on this subject aren't I!?

(PS Oh, and btw, I have a pair of Mephistos which are black patent leather moc-croc - comfort AND a bit of bling!! :)

OK, as I was reading the latest follow-ups on this, I had to laugh so much I snorted. Right now, I'm wearing my other most favorite shoe in the world...my Cole Haan fisherman's sandals (I get to wear sandals in January because I live in Florida). Not terribly expensive, because I bought them on sale, but OH SO comfortable and not at all fashionable. Well, maybe they were fashionable for five minutes in 1997. Well, I loved these so much, when I found out they were being discontinued, I had the guy at the store do a nationwide search and I bought nine pairs. I have said that I now have enough to last a lifetime and will probably be buried in these sandals.

What made me snort is that when we were shopping for appliances and settled on a fridge, my husband said it was so big that he wanted to be buried in it.

Are we morbid or just really, really functional people?? :)

Mindstorm wrote:

Anyhow, it doesn't often happen but I disagree very strongly with Sweeby's post listing what I understand as separating fashion from function:

And of these six 'dream' kitchens:
- ONE had a really good work flow,
- NONE had a prep sink,
- NONE had two dishwashers or dish drawers, and
- NONE had a warming drawer near the cooktop.

That's a good point -- These items are certainly not necessary to have a functional kitchen. But these kitchens were supposed to be ULTIMATE kitchens in homes that sell for 10 times the average home price for our city.

And to think that only one of those kitchens had a decent work flow! But two or three of the others would have had a good work flow if they had put prep sinks into the islands instead of requiring the cook to walk all the way around the kitchen to get from the fridge to the sink to the range. And while you certainly can't say two DW's are necessary, it would be a much-appreciated luxury in a home where lavish large-scale entertaining is done regularly.

My point was simply that all of the money was spent on visible kitchen bling instead of functional kitchen luxury.
Guess my kitchen won't resale well??
But then, it enriches my life every single day. I can't count how often I've said to my husband (who built it) or my mom how much I love my kitchen.

Have you gals actually LOOKED at Aerosoles recently? I've got a gorgeous pair of dark red, high-heeled, ankle-strapped Aerosoles "FM" pumps that I can actually wear all day! Plus several other pairs that never fail to get me compliments from women young enough to be my daughters. No stiletto heels, but with weak ankles I could never ice-skate either. (LOL!)

plllog - wonderful post!

Reasons for 2 DW's: keeping kosher, entertaining, or 2+ children. Not that I have 2 DW's, but I can see the point. It's all about what kind of life you live, and how the kitchen will serve it.

Put me in the "functional" category. I enjoy the pretty appearance of my almost-done kitchen, but treasure the functionality. Now DH and I can stand in one spot and load the dishwasher from the cleanup sink or unload the clean silver, leftover containers and dishes into the storage cabinets/drawers. DH can grab a snack from the fridge and warm it in one microwave while I'm defrosting something in the other. Best of all, I can work in one continuous flow to the right from prep sink to 42" of counter space to cooktop and have my utensils, spices, pans, small appliances and a spare trash can all in front of me, within a step or 2.

Widening the focus a little, I wouldn't want the kitchen that launched this thread, but more because of the layout than any other reason. The tile border boo-boo would bother me too, and the apple hardware (where do you even find something like that?!) doesn't charm me in the way that it apparently did the owners. I don't see anything wrong in having a laugh at it, though. If the owners can't laugh at themselves, they don't deserve applie pulls!

Just for a moment, let's remember that something like half the world don't have running water in their kitchens and be grateful right now for our immense good fortune, and laugh at our preoccupations before returning to them.

80's big hair? Oh please children - 60's raccoon eyeliner, white lipstick, ironed hair, and the joy of the pre-pantyhose days: making the ends meet between the bottom of your miniskirt and the top of your garter-belted stockings, while getting into and out of an all-in-one desk chair in junior high!

Fudge. Am I the only person who missed the "original" thread? Because the linky no worky. I'm curious about the kitchen with the apple pulls that sparked such interesting convo....

oh Molly....you're dating yourself lol....

I think there always will be people who buy things just because of the name. Hell, I am one of them. I have a serious Coach purse addiction and yes, I only buy them because they say coach and I like the feeling of knowing that I have something nice. I do not buy jewelry and my mom will sit and harp that I spent $400 on a purse but she says that while wearing a $400 necklace. Someone else has a $1000 faucet (I don't even know what those are because I am TKO but not TFO -totally faucet obsessed) but the fact is that the $1000 faucet probably doesn't perform better than the $200 faucet. And the $2000 robern medicine cabinets don't make me look 15 years younger. But it's ok. Some people like to say "well it's a robern" or "its a coach" or "its a wolfe" And that's ok. The same as people who buy "The North Face" clothing, or "Polo". All these items are status symbols and people like to show them off. There are very few people in the world who honestly don't buy into those labels. I give them credit. And again, as long as you see it for what it is, then hey, who's to say how you spend your money.

But like Molly said, it's good to know how fortunate we are as a society as a whole. Even those of us doing kitchens on a tight budget are far better off than many in this country. Even apple lady (and hell, I just ditched a kitchen full of apple stuff, I should send it to her) has more than most people. So if you can laugh at ourselves and our consumption (even if consumption is buying apple drawer pulls) then we're in tough shape.

They are only kitchens after all. No matter how nice, or how expensive, they won't fix our lives.

Great shoe analogy!

I can't resist asking: I'm curious about when the TKOers relax and let someone else make the decisions. I've found, since I've had children, that I just am not capable of controlling everything that I want to control or of making personal decisions about every detail. I just don't have that much energy. I'm trusting my contractor to find good solutions. I'm trusting the electricians to choose good, reasonably priced lights. I'm trusting my plumber when he says I really ought to replace the drainpipes and garbage disposal now. I'm trusting my child's pulmonologists when they prescribe four daily asthma medications. I'm even *gasp* trusting my mechanic.

We get regular messages from family, the media, and this board that we need to check every detail. I don't have time in this life to learn everyone else's job well enough to make every decision, and I don't want to slide into that mindset. When I do, I start expecting to be cheated; and I don't enjoy my days. I'm not saying I don't try to be informed and understand what's happening; rather, I'm making a conscious decision to have some faith.

I wonder if, in the kitchen from the previous thread, the owners trusted their experts? Some functionality may have been better as a result; some - like the heated trash - may have been worse.

As for 80's fashion: I tried the Ogilvee perm and had those horrible jeans that were so skinny there were zippers at the ankles. Let's just say the perm made me look pretty special.

From the other thread, I can tell you with certainty that there were no experts involved. Not even an architect.

As for the apple knobs, all I'm going to say is apple resin handle Vicki Anderson. Google away.

Thanks, all, for sharing my shoe laugh with me :)

Yes, if you must have a red sole on your fuchsia shoes, you can, but it sure does clash! Talking about buying something for the name and trend rather than using sense :)

Buffettgirl, we're in trouble if our kitchens are supposed to match our favored footwear! I do not want a Birkenstock kitchen :) I really don't want a red sole Louboutin type kitchen either :) Too trendy, even if they're pretty. And I don't want the iffy quality that my lovely, comfy, 4" bronze baby dolls have either :)

Mollyred, You've pointed out exactly what I meant about the Aerosoles: They're much vaunted for their comfort, and have many good looking styles, though they're not at the forefront of fashion. I just hope creating the (mostly) perfect kitchen isn't as hard as finding a perfect pair of shoes :)

I agree we're all very lucky to have problems like choosing cabinets. But I think the reason we obsess and the reason we're TKO is that no matter the budget we're spending significant chunks of our resources on these kitchens, and while they won't, as Buffettgirl says, "fix our lives", they do have the potential to significantly improve them as Divamum and others have attested. And unlike shoes, we can't just cast them aside if they don't fit right. It's not just buying something different (a big enough problem) but all the time and mess and stress and disruption that remodeling involves. I cooked great things in a truly tiny, rudimentary kitchen years back, but can I just tell you how much better it is to use a KA mixer than a fork and a pot to make cake batter?

But having decided that more modern finishes are more appropriate to the appliances I'm choosing, I now have to face that my original thought of porcelain tile countertops won't go. A fashion thing. A decision purely about style rather than function (I know others disagree but I find tile highly functional). So the shopping begins...

This is a great thread, I'm a flip flop kitchen gal, not quite Old Navy since I buy them at Nordstorm but they're still flip flops.

I'm struggling desperately to pick a countertop that I want. Society tells me it needs to be a solid surface, esp. granite. Budget and DH tell me no way. I actually like the look of ceramic tile and grout lines (GASP yes I like grout lines). I currently have the original tile in my 1962 ranch house and it's in great shape (except where I broke it banging the hardwood cutting board against the sink edge repeatedly but that's another story). DH changed the grout to charcoal gray about 10 years ago and I've never had a problem. Same with the grout in the shower, it's original and white and it looks really good still (the rest of the bathroom is deplorable but grout is good).

Solid surface is so popular these days that's it hard to find ceramic tile with all the trim pieces (grr).

I do have 2 dishwashers hehehe, the rest of the new kitchen is (will be) a very small, very functional kitchen for me, it's a J shaped kitchen and designed just for me. No one really needs to be inmy kitchen. The pantry is outside of my triangle and the fridge on the outside edge of it so the family can get to snacks without being in my way (glory, glory, hallelujah) I've been in the most dysfunctional kitchen forever. It's a really weird galley kitchen with about 8 feet between the sink wall and stove wall with a HUGE oak table in the middle of it. I always have to skirt around the table to get anything and if more than one person is in the kitchen then we end up ring around the rosy-ing the table. The cabinets were all builders grade plywood, made in place and in terrible condition. The vinyl floor was original (gone now).

Anyway this is a very timely thread that frees me to use my oak cabinets and tile counters (jk on the oak cabinets, they're maple). We have discussed using oak on the bar top though and both of us really like it.

Fascinating thread!

I live in Red Wing boots and Crocs, which go oh-so-well with my thorn torn gardening duds (I work from home). Is it any surprise that I chose oak cabs for my new kitchen? :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: My Eventually Almost Mostly Finished Budget Craftsman Kitchen

I should clarify - (I need an edit function) My sentence should ahve read "So if we can't laugh at ourselves and our consumption (even if consumption is buying apple drawer pulls) then we're in tough shape."

I see no problem at all with being TKO. I'm here after all ROFL. And plllog is correct - even the budget minded here are spending huge chunks of money. But it all needs to be in perspective. What I meant when I said it wouldn't change our lives is not that it can't change the quality of our lives, sure it can. If my new kitchen allows me to entertain more and I enjoy that, then it does change the quality of my life. But sometimes when I talk to other people it almost sounds like the new kitchen or the new house or the new addition (or the new shoes or purse etc) is going to fix all their problems. "If only I got this new kitchen then I could cook meals every night and DH wouldn't go out so much." A kitchen isn't going to fix that.

for Cate - some of us LIKE being involved though and feel that it's our job to be involved since it's our money. I would no sooner let my electrician pick out my lights as I would let my gynecologist pick out my underwear. Yes, I trust that the electrician knows if I need this wire here or that wire there. That's his job. But the other stuff, the decorative stuff, that's the fun part. When my GC said the other day "here's the decision - do you want your half wall this high or this high?" I like to think what would work for me and then decide. I don't want him to put in a half wall that doesn't meet my needs. It's his job to build it, it's my job to know what I want and need.

robin d, I've admired your kitchen since the first time I saw pictures of it. It's so warm and inviting. The cabinets are wonderful with your woodwork. What a nice blend of style and function!

LOL, mindstorm the "comments" in my post weren't necessarily my opinions. I love, love, love tile, for instance. I was just commenting on how styles change, and many of the things that previous generations viewed as improvements we've abandoned in order to go a generation back!

Like carpeting...when I was buying my house, any house that an elderly person was selling had wall to wall carpet covering the hardwoods. These days, everyone wants hardwoods, but you can bet it was probably a proud moment in those people's lives when they installed the plush, warm wall to wall - you know? And my grandma was really, really proud of the linoleum (that held up like a rock, I must admit) she put in when she built her house in the 50s. "That's not the cheap stuff," she would say. "The color goes through to the other side." I always wondered what useful purpose that served unless you planned to flip it over, LOL!

So, when I watch HGTV or redecorate my own house, I can't help think of some previous owner spinning in their grave at our decisions. No doubt the things we consider the height of style or function will be just as laughable to our grandchildren.

The plant analogies are good for me because nobody should make whatI do and spend so much on shoes!

The perennials comment above (and really, nothing personal) would illustrate my thought that function and fashion are somewhat is the eye of the beholder. Autum Joy is a bummer in my yard (becomes completely flattened before blooming by rain and four footed life). Altho its a good plant, it doesn't function for me.

It's something to think about - that the optimum function for you may not be the same as the common wisdom of this site (or any other). I think we all try to help with fashion or function or both, but we sometimes forget that what works for us may not work for a different person.

Perversely, I love show homes. The kitchens are usually terrible and make me feel fortunate to have put in the effort to make a kitchen that works for me - even if it only cost as much as their flooring!

Well, first, I want to thank divamum for the kind words at the beginning, and for breaking off this thread, it's a great discussion!

Mari brought up a really good point earlier: if it wasn't for GW and the internet, would any of us really have kitchens that are so functional? (We certainly would not have this conversation without it...)

It's also interesting to think that what we consider to be fashionable OR functional may have already gone in and out of fashion before...my parents, in their first home, put in a stainless cooktop and wall ovens, only to remove the same in their next home and put in a brown 2 oven range. (It was a Crown something...Johnny Carson owned one!)

I love the idea of bling, and I am all about having what you want. However, if I am spending my money, I want it to be for something. It does amaze me at times to see a kitchen in a multi-million dollar home that is impossible to cook in. It may look gorgeous, and have all sorts of pretty cabinets and handles and a gorgeous range, but what is the point if it doesn't work?

SOmetimes it comes down to editing yourself a bit...I saw things about LaCanche ranges, and BlueStar, and Agas, and I lusted after them. I craved them. I stil do. However, if I bought one I would have my old fridge and my old microwave still, (neither of which worked very well) laminate countertops (which are lovely if you wanted but while I was appliance drooling I was soapstone salivating, so...) and laminate floors (my husband was craving hardwood) and probably a smaller window, no breakfast bar, and no half bathroom addition. All for a gorgeous showpiece that I would have never used enough to justify it's purchase. I got a Bosch; it's lovely and it's useful and I am happy, and I have a half bath, soapstone and hardwood. The function of the appliance may be superior to what I have, but it's function in my life did not work.

BTW, I have 9.5 AA feet, so the show thing doesn't matter to me...my mother told me "marry rich, you ahve welathy feet", but I didn't quite do that so I have Jimmy Choo/Ferragama taste, feet that only fit into Naturalizers, and a Payless budget! (Kinda like my kitchen, hee!)

Keep up the discussion, this is really interesting stuff!

Emmie

Wow you gals are waaayyy deep. I would love to post on this but I am reading it very late and have to get up and go to work tomorrow morning. What kind of kitchen goes with Born clogs and knee high boots. THose are my favorites. Okay the clogs for comfort and the boots for sass. This thread is great.

That would be a pretty funny thread - footwear picture matched up with a kitchen picture ROFL.

That would be a pretty funny thread - footwear picture matched up with a kitchen picture ROFL.

Hmmm...

Maybe it would be better if I waited for my finished kitchen pics. :)

I tried to find a pic of my Mephistos, but apparently, they were so ugly that Mephisto destroyed all photographic evidence of their existence.

Holligator, you know there's something awfully similar about those floor tiles and the sandal straps. Hmmm.

rofl...I was thinking the exact same thing!

my flipflops suggest a kitchen with a sand floor and tiki roof on a beach. Alas....I'm a dreamer...

Obviously not my REAL footwear, but what you'll find on my feet around the house these snowy days when I'm not going anywhere that I don't absolutely have to go. Almost got a camouflage thing going, huh?

Emmie, you're singing my song - I used to be a 10.5 AA (which was nightmarish); after having my daughter my feet went up to an 11m which is still bad, although a slightly more standard non-standard size! But, the resulting "hunt for shoes" combined with my innate diva tendencies means I'm a complete shoeslut. I certainly HOPE my obsession doesn't extend to kitchens, or we'll be remodeling forever!

That said (can you believe this thread has turned into Shoeholics anonymous? I'm lmao every time I open it up! Hmm... somebody's phd: "The stylistic implications of shoes on kitchen design 1995-2010" BWAH!), I find myself divided between the need for comfort and weird-size/shape feet:

{{gwi:1574117}}

And that for which my divasoul longs:

::cough:: Kitchens. Yes, we were talking about kitchens. Warming drawers. Prep sinks. Faucets.

Ok, just to keep it closer to topic:

function:
{{gwi:1574121}}

Fashion:

that sink is studded with real jewels and costs $24k!!
http://www.trendir.com/archives/000206.html

Divamum, if you bought that, you'd never have to face the embarrassment of walking in someone else's powder room and finding they had a sink just like yours. And when you got tired of the sink, you could just have it turned into some new jewelry, especially if you got a gold faucet to go with it. Sounds like a good investment to me! : ) Maybe I'll get one, right after I pay off my car that cost just about the same price.

that sink reminds me of this bra:
http://www.victoriassecret.com/fantasy1021/fantasy_bra/

but since I"m not a shoe fanantic but am a purse fanantic this is what my kitchen is matching.. freaky isn't it???

{{gwi:1574125}}

I have to add I do not, er (putting it delicately in case it is somebody's dream) like that sink. At all. (That kind of froufrou is sooo not my style, and that one in particular falls into my categtory of neither particularly aesthetic NOR functional, and only "valuable" because of the high price! I mean, what happens if one of the jewels goes down the drain? Or you chip it? Heck, just looking at those faucet handles makes me feel like I've wandered into some kind of weird alternate universe!).However, it just struck me as a good example to illustrate our point of "fashion" instead of utilitarian!!!!

I really must do a "shoe comp" on my kitchen when it's finished, although I fear I shall buck the trend - most of my shoes are black, I seldom wear browns (classic "Winter" colouring here) and my kitchen is all tones of caramels and golds. Hmm..... The exception that proves the rule!? The look isn't the same, but the theology is, since it IS a mixture of utilitarian and purrrrty :)

Goodness me but this makes me giggle, which is just what I need before starting a busy day!!

lol, Buffetgirl, I think we're making the same point! I lost mine somewhat bc I came in here to type, went to look at the cans going in, came in here to type, tried to get my kids to share a toy, forgot where I was going... At any rate, thanks for helping me remember part of what I was thinking. The lights started out being decorative for me but ended up being functional. There's this weird swing between "ooh pretty I want it" to "I can't afford it, what's second best" to "let's just get what works and isn't a bare tube." The decorative element is definitely important to me, but I guess I end up far enough on the functional side of the spectrum that I do rely on what the pros are saying about each option. (Yesterday, when the electrcians came, I was surprised that they had 4" cans for the bar rather than the 3" cans I thought I was getting. No problem as far as I'm concerned - they explained that bulbs for the 4"ers are cheaper and easier to find, as is the housing of the can. So I am in control of my money, and am making what I consider decorative decisions, just not to the same precision as some.)

Re: the gynecologist - I would totally let her choose my underwear if she were putting me in a pair that took off two sizes, smoothed everything out, cost under $5, and made me look like some hot young thang.

But maybe we should stick to shoes!

Can anyone out there make a shoe test, like the Sweeby test, to figure out your Kitchen Fashifunctitude?

rofl Cate - yes I do see that we are going the same place now. LOL....its hard with typing to get the nuances of what we're trying to say.

bmorepanic,

You might have Autumn Joy in the wrong place- (too much shade?). Mine never reaches 4 feet high. But, if you wanna keep it where it is, try pinching the new growth when it's about 8-10' high- that might keep it more manageable.(And you can always use a plant ring- I finally broke down and bought several from Lee Valley that are like a grid supported by green plastic covered wires. Put them in place before growth is too high and let plant grow through grid. No more flopping!)

And part of growing the right perennial is putting it in the right place- which is why my customers really appreciate my input, and most of my business is either repeat or referral. It's totally blown me away that I seem to care more about my $10 sales, than my suppliers have for many many thousands of $$$. Our windows took 6 months to finally all get installed correctly- we were offered no discount or recompense for the delay and hassles (long story- won't go into it here). Not that I would EVER delay an order by six months, but even if I'm a week or two behind (I sell seeds online), I always include bonus packs.

And to carry the Autumn Joy analogy further- in your garden it doesn't work, in mine it looks good 8-10 months of the year- a definite winner. Lots of people love their marble, though I love the look, I KNOW I could not stand the extra care needed and that I would be bothered by marks, stains, etc. So, because it doesn't work for me, doesn't mean it's not an appropriate choice for someone else. BUT, this is where it behooves the supplier to inform the client- it bugs me to no end how much research is required for every single item. It certainly is a Buyer Beware atmosphere out there- some have lucked out in getting really good GCs, but for many, and for those of us DIY, it's a huge ordeal to have to investigate the pros and cons of EVERYTHING. (Sorry for the OT rant- I'm just so tired of all the work)

Anyhow, had to go check my favorite shoes- I kid you not- they are called "FUNCTION'by Solidus. Well, I thought that was the name, cuz that's on the sole- but I think that may be their motto. Here's a pic- Have worn them to two weddings- didn't mind the lack of fashion as I danced well into the night at both of them.

Function can be bought for about $10000 in a kitchen (IKEA, prefab granite, ebay the rest).

Fashion can be bought for .. um... $$$$$$$.

In the modern world, function is a given, is default, everyone can afford it.

Fashion is what makes it interesting, unique, exciting, extravagant, and keeps the economy going :)

Pharoah, I totally disagree with you here. In my opinion, if planning is about meeting project FUNCTIONAL requirements, *that* is where the bulk of the time, energy, effort, AND a hefty block of the budget goes. I can speak for the amount of time I spent on my kitchen and bathroom layouts and the amount of $$$ I shelled out to the architect and designers for the space and function planning - NOT THE BLING! - and I can tell you that it didn't come cheap. Planning the functional elements may have been a big yawn to all concerned but it is what kept me awake at night (interesting beyond measure), required loads of heads (unique?), and at multiple tens of K not exactly thrifty even if not wildly extravagant.

Actually, my takeaway from our project was that planning and labour are so much of the moolah, that it seems ridiculous to sweat the few hundreds or thousands of dollars that is basic vs. bling when every time a tradesman walks into your house, it is 10K to you. :-)

Pharoah, you're right that a basically functional kitchen can be had for a moderate amount of money. But so can a fashionable one (e.g., your prefab granite--granite is a fashion item).

But there's a difference between fashion and style. Fashion is what is currently popular and which will tell the tale of its time. Fashion colors in the '60's started as pastels and went psychedelic, in the '70's they were "natural" earth tones and colors taken from nature, in the '80's they were club colors like neons, metalics, and jewel tones, in the '90's there were a lot of classic colors (primaries and neutrals) and tropicals (especially teal), in between all the black, black as night, black as coal, the sun blotted out of the sky black. This current decade is pale cool colors, especially sage and sky, candy colors, and supersaturated primaries and secondaries, like hypercrayons.

Style is knowing you look good in coral and planning your wardrobe/home around it no matter what the fashion is.

I plan to have a stylish kitchen, but it likely won't be particularly fashionable. But that's okay, because I don't intend to redo it. Ever.