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Kitchen Floor Plan Critique - New to Forum

11 years ago

I have seen such great feedback given to other plans here that I would greatly appreciate if you could provide some suggestions on m kitchen reno.

This will be an open concept kitchen, we are not going to be using a table, but the right half of the island should allow for seating of 4 people. We are going to be using the Electrolux Icon Twins for our fridge and freezer, followed by a Microwave / Oven cabinet.

Thanks a lot in advance

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Comments (9)

goldilockss
Original Author
11 years ago
this is another view that may help visualize the kitchen plan.
From Kitchen
robo (z6a)
11 years ago
34 inch aisle plus stove backing on dishwasher is way too tight. Landing space to left of cooktop, which will also catch stuff from fridge and oven, is very insufficient. Can you chop off 12 inches from back of island to increase clearances between sink and stove? Can you make island even longer, pushing in to family room, to get more space to left of stove (24 inches would be nice) and get stove away from dw? If your island is now that long would you consider putting sink and dw in it and putting stove on back wall to avoid venting issues?

I love a long narrow island: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/what-is-the-width-of-your-island-does-it-work-well-for-you-dsvw-vd~247624-is-the-width-of-your-island--Does-it

Also is the family room the centre of the house? Might be worth considering a counter depth fridge where the pantry cabs are to keep snack getters out of your kitchen.
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lauren, I spent what seemed like forever (it was actually over 6 years!) drawing up the plans for our house. My earliest plans were, in retrospect, awful (I didn't know what I didn't know!), so try not to be too disheartened by the comments people make about your plans; they are trying to help you. I looked back at your previous "final" plan from your post on Feb 10 at 9:39, printed off that one and this, and am looking at them side-by-side. I'm not clear on several things. If you're building on 10 acres of flat pasture land in Illinois, why is the orientation of the most important rooms to the southwest? Seems like that would put a lot of unnecessary heat into them in the summer, and that they'd get hit by some strong winds in the spring and winter. All of this will increase your heating & cooling needs/bill. And the most desirable elevation, the southeast, is entirely taken up with the bedroom suite. Can the orientation of the house be changed? Could the master BR suite and study be switched and the MBR then moved back to the right of the screened porch behind the present study, and the garage be moved so that its SW wall is where the present study/deck wall is? The laundry, bath, and office can be reworked if these other moves could be made. I'm also trying to understand why guests pulling up in the driveway would have to go all the way around the garage to get to the front door. Can you post or draw a sketch of the lot, road, and possible driveway access choices, and possible building locations on the lot for the house? To get rid of so many corners to save on costs, try drawing a rectangle with a wing bumping out on the right side to the SW & NE. Place the 5 main rooms. Then, instead of bumping out a room to get more space, try moving the whole side or back wall of the house a few feet or inches as you play around with the minor rooms. Once you get the rooms more or less settled in place, you will find that moving pieces of short & long room walls by inches (many times, as I'm sure you already know!), you can fit everything in to a much less expensive footprint. Also, even though most houses have the fireplace on an outside wall, it's much better to have it on an interior wall from an energy efficiency point-of-view. Also, I know there is a different feel to a screened porch, but realistically, wouldn't you get more use out of a 4 season room? You have to build a foundation and roof for a screened porch, so that's already a major expense. Adding an insulated wall and lots of windows would cost more up front, but get you much better living space, IMO. Anne
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Are you going to bumpout the cooktop at all? If so, I'd go light on the whole cooktop area, top to bottom. If not, I am really torn, like you. I'm not sure I'd like the different colors on that area. Is the trim/ornamentation on the island going to be light or dark? (I ask, because of your inspiration photo that shows 2 colors on the island) If the island has 2 colors, I'd do it on the mantle area, too. If not, I'd stay with one. Which one, I can't decide. I'm not sure I like it being the only thing on the perimeter in the light color, but do like how it'd connect with the island, and am probably leaning toward that option...Having it all the lighter color.
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Wow. A lot to digest. Bmorepanic, thanks for a completely different look. I will have to think about your ideas as I work around the kitchen. I have always been reluctant to put the main sink on the island - assuming that my family would clutter up the area with mugs etc. Also, the sink and d/w in that position are far from our kitchen eating area and will generate traffic congestion and extra steps. The pantry zone may well be a good place for the fridge but I still think of that area as the hallway (which it is currently). Lots to ponder. Plllog - my current kitchen which was done about 30 years ago has a 48" sub zero fridge in the empty area between the pantry and prep counter just down from where I drew in the new fridge. It is plumbed, we have never moved it so don't know how it is attached, but it does not have a wall either behind or at either side, just melamine panels to match the kitchen cupboards. It must be attached at the top and bottom. Funny thing about this fridge is that it was, apparently, very noisy so the previous owners had the motors taken out and mounted in the basement below with extended pipes to run the coolant. So it is not as heavy as most SZs. Ventilation is currently on the wall just down from where bmorepanic drew in the stove. We currently have an industrial strength (30 year old!) remote blower on the roof. It still works! I had planned to use downdraft venting which has only a short run under the floor to outdoors under our deck. I could also vent it up to the attic if I find a pretty enough hood, though the view is important to me. The house is over a basement and plumbing is accessible if we take out the lower ceiling (I think). The floors are hardwood throughout the upstairs and I would not want to rip them up to do major plumbing works. My positioning of both sinks is quite close to where my two current sinks are so it would save dollars to keep them there. I haven't really researched the drain situation - it is a bit odd as we are on a septic system and the tank is in the front yard at a level between the two floors, so all the plumbing runs through an old crawl space behind the kitchen wall where the main sink is. There seems to be general agreement that the fridge should not be turned. I could easily take out the broom cupboard and put the fridge on the long wall that the clean up sink is on in my drawing. As I think I said before, I may go for a narrow 24" all fridge and put a really narrow 18" freezer next to the pantry. I'm off to the big city (Vancouver) in a week and can really look at appliances then. Thank you all for the time and effort you've put in. Keep the good ideas rolling ! Please. Carol
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Comments (13)
Thanks very much everyone for the feedback! Sorry for picture difficulties, I couldn't get the pictures to load otherwise for some reason! I had 3 contractors and a kitchen/cabinet designer over yesterday. Fortunately, it seems like my budget range overlaps with ballpark figures the contractors were willing to throw out, so that's a relief! The KD agreed with the general layout and said I should have minimum of 36" from the pantry to the peninsula, but I will see about trying to make the clearance there as much as possible, like up to the ~42". I can put down some tape and stack some boxes and see what clearance would work best for me. Its already a small kitchen, so anything I can do to make it feel a little more spacious would be valuable. Also in agreement on the lazy susan - it adds nothing and drawers would be nice, and I could put in a cookie sheet insert or something, just generally get more out of the cabinet. I will definitely do that! The KD also mentioned that instead of a kidney-shape pullout in the blind corner, I should just give up on that space and go with normal drawers as it would be a good way to get more fixed-size drawers in the kitchen (right now, the only fixed-size drawers I'd have would be those next to the oven, probably 15" wide, and ones at the top of the peninsula). So eating that dead space would add 3 or 4 drawers. The KD also recommended a single bowl sink. I don't know, it seems so convenient to have 2 bowls, though maybe 36" cabinet isn't big enough to have a 2 bowl sink with at least one bowl big enough for pots and pans? The KD also said that reducing the sink size doesn't really give me much benefit, only a wider cabinet at the other end of the counter that will be up against a wall anyway. I will have to research if a huge one bowl sink or maybe a 70/30 two bowl sink might work. Out of curiousity, would more than 24" between sink and oven be for more prep space? I can't fit anything bigger than about 24" in my oven, so I figured if I was doing a pizza or turkey, I could pull it out and put it right on the counter. Unfortunately I am pretty restricted on the sink because I can't move the drain enough to put it on the other wall with my state's plumbing codes. I can easily run water line down for fridge, but the drain is the greater issue. I actually mapped out a plan with my sister very much like yours mama goose, but the building engineer said people tried in the past and it wouldn't pass inspection. I don't like the corner sink, just a personal thing, and I like having my drying rack in the corner there. Any recommendations on where the trash can pullout should go? I'd like it to go in one of the bases.. If I were to drop down to 60" of cabinets on the peninsula, could I switch to a 30" cabinet, 12" cabinet and 18" cabinet for trash? Or maybe they'll have a 15" trash can pullout, though I doubt it. I still get a drawer above the trash cans, but would the top drawer get smelly and gross with trash underneath? KD also recommended microwave in a center cutout of the pantry, which I'm inclined to do as it would take away a small eyesore and I personally very rarely use a microwave (though I know future owner may want a place for one). As an aside, two of the three contractors told me they'd only work with me if I used their cabinet lines, as its where they make most of their money. One of them only used Bellmont cabinets, which I read about and was not impressed. The other had a little more selection: Marsh, Wolf, and J&K Cabinetry (Chinese made). The Marsh seem ok.. but reviews are mixed and contractor estimated $6-7k for my small kitchen. The last contractor said they are fine with whatever cabinets I choose, and, despite having carpenters that can install them, would understand if I wanted to have cabients installed by someone else. If Woodharbor comes back in my price range, I'll almost certainly go with their cabinets and the contractor that offered flexibility.
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robo (z6a)
11 years ago
Also is that window location set?
tracie.erin
11 years ago
Do you really want your view from the family room into the kitchen to be a wall of tall, towering, cold lineup of stainless fridge/freezer/ovens? Wouldn't you rather put the cooktop with a really cool hood there instead?

Also, as others have mentioned, your island is way too wide for the space. The length seems OK.

To be honest, I would give up at least the twins for a standard 36" wide fridge, and possible do a range instead of cooktop and wall oven too. But, I like a challenge so I have thought out an option that leaves you with every appliance plus about 30" of pantry space. :) Here we go...

What I would do is redistribute the appliances so that left wall is not so ugly. I would put the range with a nice hood on the left wall, with the wall ovens down towards the bottom of that wall. I would put the fridge on the end of the sink wall which will give you a pretty nice work triangle, although the island is a bit of a barrier and the DW is in the way. If you want, you can swap the ovens and fridge at this point and add a prep sink to the left end of the island.

The freezer is accessed less often so I would put it on that 72" pantry wall with a 30" side tall pantry cabinet next to it. At this point you have no nearby landing space for the fridge or pantry - but do you really need it for frozen or room temp items? I don't think so, but if you think you need it you can swap out 15" of the pantry space for 15" of countertop next to the freezer on whichever side the freezer opens to.

Either way I would not go less than 48" for the top aisle, 42" for the bottom aisle, and 42" for the left aisle. This means your island can only be 27" wide, which means:
a) just the base cabinetry (no seating), or
b) just counter with no cabinetry underneath (seating allowed on both sides), or
c) 12" deep base cabinetry (standard depth is 24") plus an inadequate seating overhang of 12" (recommended minimum is 15", your sitters will be uncomfortable, or
d) 12" deep base cabinetry (standard depth is 24") plus an adequate seating overhang of 15" (which will reduce the bottom aisle to 39" - would not do if you put the fridge on the left wall, since that will then be a major traffic aisle), or
e) some combination of the above a-d. Personally I would do one or two base cabinets at the left end of the island (option a) and then extend the countertop on legs, with no cabinetry beneath (option b) to allow for the seating that you want.

I hope this helps!
tracie.erin
11 years ago
Oh, that link robotropolis posted has exactly the cabinetry-table hybrid kind of island I was talking about in my option e) above. Here's the picture in-line:

[Contemporary Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103)
Gooster
11 years ago
I'll let the experts chime in, but I'll add I have a similar sized shape, but have about 6.5 more inches in width to deal with. I will have a long narrow (104x39" island) with seating on one side. You might want to play around with a "spoon" shaped island and post dimensions of the surrounding rooms, to get a better idea of how much room there is to play with. (But you'll have to adjust that small remaining run to the right of the doors -- you have another pinch point there)

This post was edited by gooster on Thu, Feb 28, 13 at 12:32
bellsmom
11 years ago
I played with your plan. This is what I think I might do. It gives you room to open all appliance doors and still pass by. I would put a small prep sink in the island, and I would evaluate a drawer microwave there. I love my island so equipped. Trash goes by prep sink.

This plan does involve putting the freezer elsewhere. But I think what you gain in functionality is worth it.

You could, I guess, put the freezer in the area to the right of the backyard doors. It wouldn't be much uglier therethan elsewhere. :-)

Anyway, there may be some ideas here you might want to consider.

You might want to look at Davidahn's great informative post on solutions for a dead corner. His numbers for square inches used are invaluable in deciding about this thorny issue.
goldilockss
Original Author
11 years ago
Thank you all for your suggestions, they make a lot of sense and will definitely incorporate your ideas. I will increase the landing area to the left of the cooktop and make the island thinner.

robotropolis ** To answer some of your questions, I'm being told that I cannot put the cooktop on the back wall due to code restrictions and yes the window and doors are fixed.

tracie.erin & gooster ** I see what you mean about a skinnier island.

Bellsmom ** thanks for the suggestion to look at Davidahn's post for dead corners.

Thanks again, you guys are great for taking the time to look at my crazy kitchen.
goldilockss
Original Author
11 years ago
Do you guys have any opinions between italian laminate (as per picture) and oak riff cut veneer?

The cabinets I am leaning towards are this style
From Kitchen

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