Is that at 30"w 24" deep refrigerator such as a Subzero? That is kind of an unusual location, and I am not sure how you would decide which doorswing would work best...

Inserting your plan in the thread.

{{!gwi}}

I find it easier to review and make comments when I don't have to go to another page to see a plan. Not that I'll have much to add tonight. I'm too tired. But I'm sure someone else will!

Hmmm. INteresting and unusual. Not quite sure what I think...Just trying to absorb it all and think how it might work.

One thing I notice is your prep sink in a 15" cabinet. The inside of any sink that will fit in a 15" cabinet will be much smaller than I'd hope to use for a prep sink. (I'm guessing a sink that is 12" on the outside, so 10-11" on the inside? Narrower at the bottom than the top usually.) Will your pots and colanders fit? Will you be able to wash and prep veggies, chicken, etc. and not bump your knuckles?

palimpsest - In a previous drawing, I had the fridge against the wall on the left. Turning it gave me the chance to put in a small closet for broom and vacuum hose. I imagine left hand door swing so that I can use the counter beside it. Not sure of make but definitely counter depth.

rhome410 - The 15" cupboard was just a guess, I haven't actually looked at sinks yet. There is room to widen that cupboard if I need to. I plan on using it for prep but probably not to wash pots. Good idea to check the colander size.

lisa_a - thanks! I thought I did pretty well just scanning the drawing and getting it to the website. You are right, it IS easier to be able to see it close by.

I think that with a 30" wide true counterdepth as you have drawn, you may be restricted to Subzero and Liebherr. Thermador and Miele (and Gaggenau?) make freezerless columns as far as I know, but then you would need a separate freezer. Most other true counterdepth or "counterdepth" which is really closer to 28" deep is 36" wide.

Keep in mind that the Subzero and Miele in this configuration are $5000-7000, the Liebherr a bit less. This might not be a concern in your budget. But I don't want you to plan a kitchen around a very specific appliance size, that either restricts your options or is out of budget.

Thanks palimpsest. I originally put in a 36" french door fridge but thought I might have problem being too close to the counter. I have enough space, if I keep the fridge there, to choose a different size. I am seriously considering a 24" all fridge and putting the 18" all freezer column in the pantry area (adjusting the other units as needed).
Any thoughts on the overall layout and the oven placement?

how about putting a shallow 'broom' closet at the end of your pantry - facing out with doors on the very end. it only needs to take a few inches from your pantry. you could even put a few shelves up high in there for extra canned goods since they wouldn't be deep shelves.

this would be like the pantry another gwer put on the 'side' of her built in fridge.

then you could put your fridge inline with the cabinet run and facing forward.

Hi Carol,

Re the fridge, I'm pretty sure you can't put in a SubZero without a real wall behind it. If nothing else, you need to get the services to it, which is true for any other model as well. They usually want the electrical mounted well above the wet zone (4').

I'll be the bad guy. I think a lot of us are focusing on details like the fridge and prep sink because this plan is interesting, but really might not be the best layout. I'd be happy to take a whack at it, but I have meetings and probably won't have time until the weekend. Regarding what we were talking about in Appliances, however, the path from the stove and prep area to the ovens, as drawn, should work fine. It might be two steps more than best of all possible worlds, but given that you're trying for a bigger kitchen rather than a tighter workspace, it works.

My first question is about ventilation. Do you already have ductwork where you put the cooktop? Or is that the only area where it really works? It looks like the clean up sink is against a solid, interior wall, which is often the best place for a proper hood.

What kind of foundation do you have? Is it slab? Raised? Over a basement? How hard/easy is it to move services, especially drains? Is the clean up sink in the plan located where the current plumbing is? How much can be changed?

One small, fairly unimportant comment: The pantry wall is fine, the opening to the kitchen is fine, but it's going to look funny as drawn. You might just have been saving pencil strokes, but you should continue the wall that the railing abuts, next to the pantry wall, to an inch or three beyond where the cabinets are. It's just a little partition that can be easily added. Put a tall piece of art on it for people to look at as they enter the house, and you've both shielded the view of the kitchen from the door somewhat, and given a nicer finish to the area.

{{!gwi}}

Dunno. It might be better like this - dishes, ref and micro on the easily accessible side. Main sink usable for either prep or cleanup. Pick your poison on the ref/pantry thing. I might look round in the sears outlet or ebay for a small set of ref drawers. Sometimes they're affordable.

I do not think much is gained by having the refrigerator turned that way, and plllog is correct that it would be difficult to make it completely "freestanding". The sheathing would have to be expertly done. Mine SZ clamps to the floor I believe, but some are top heavy and attach at the top back.

I'd find some other place for brooms, vacuum, etc., other than take up precious kitchen space. Alternatives: garage, laundry, utility room, hall closet, room closet. A small whisk & dustpan can fit under a sink or in a pantry.

Wow. A lot to digest.
Bmorepanic, thanks for a completely different look. I will have to think about your ideas as I work around the kitchen. I have always been reluctant to put the main sink on the island - assuming that my family would clutter up the area with mugs etc. Also, the sink and d/w in that position are far from our kitchen eating area and will generate traffic congestion and extra steps. The pantry zone may well be a good place for the fridge but I still
think of that area as the hallway (which it is currently). Lots to ponder.

Plllog - my current kitchen which was done about 30 years ago has a 48" sub zero fridge in the empty area between the pantry and prep counter just down from where I drew in the new fridge. It is plumbed, we have never moved it so don't know how it is attached, but it does not have a wall either behind or at either side, just melamine panels to match the kitchen cupboards. It must be attached at the top and bottom. Funny thing about this fridge is that it was, apparently, very noisy so the previous owners had the motors taken out and mounted in the basement below with extended pipes to run the coolant. So it is not as heavy as most SZs.
Ventilation is currently on the wall just down from where bmorepanic drew in the stove. We currently have an industrial strength (30 year old!) remote blower on the roof. It still works! I had planned to use downdraft venting which has only a short run under the floor to outdoors under our deck. I could also vent it up to the attic if I find a pretty enough hood, though the view is important to me.
The house is over a basement and plumbing is accessible if we take out the lower ceiling (I think). The floors are hardwood throughout the upstairs and I would not want to rip them up to do major plumbing works. My positioning of both sinks is quite close to where my two current sinks are so it would save dollars to keep them there. I haven't really researched the drain situation - it is a bit odd as we are on a septic system and the tank is in the front yard at a level between the two floors, so all the plumbing runs through an old crawl space behind the kitchen wall where the main sink is.

There seems to be general agreement that the fridge should not be turned. I could easily take out the broom cupboard and put the fridge on the long wall that the clean up sink is on in my drawing. As I think I said before, I may go for a narrow 24" all fridge and put a really narrow 18" freezer next to the pantry. I'm off to the big city (Vancouver) in a week and can really look at appliances then.

Thank you all for the time and effort you've put in. Keep the good ideas rolling ! Please.
Carol

That refrigerator wall isn't structural?

If its not, can I ask why you wouldn't do a 4 foot wide island? instead of the "L" shaped one.

bmorepanic - I'm not sure what you mean? The reason for the L shape is to have two zones - a prep zone and, close by, a cooking zone - both facing the view. Would you have the cooking and prep on perpendicular sides of a 9' x 4' island? I've never thought of that. Wouldn't it look oversized for the space?

Despite the fact that the kitchen now has a fair amount of space, I have tried many layouts that have not worked for one reason or another. Prior to this plan, I was trying to work within the confines of the existing kitchen which has a piece of counter and the large fridge extending from where I drew the fridge (running parallel to the windows). The new pantry area is actually hallway at present. The current entry into the kitchen is next to the cooktop part of the L. Taking out the fridge and counter opened up the space to the hall and will make it more functional but people will still have to walk through that area to get to different sides of the house, as they will have to walk past the clean up sink or through the dining room to get to the deck. This kitchen really is the "hub" of the house!

This is what is so great about this forum - that all these new ideas open my eyes to other possibilities. Thank you.