Thanks for the nice comments. JessicaV, I was really surprised at how the oiled knife just glided through the dough. May an expert breadmaker will shed some light on deflation. That wouldn't be me! Sharon, we like this bread a lot. I only had light rye flour so the rye flavor was subtle but the vinegar and sour cream really add to the taste. I didn't have caraway so subbed a scant teaspoon of fennel seed which I ground course (measured the seed and then ground). I hope you try it. I am really pleased with the results of using the bread machine for the dough and then baking in the oven. I had stopped using my breadmaker years ago because I didn't like the way it baked the bread. I hope others will dust off vintage macines, Lee Here is the recipe that Laurie posted: Sour Cream Rye Bread from "The Bread Lover's Bread Machine Cookbook" by Beth Hensperger, (2000) Havard Common Press, Boston, MA page 139 2-pound loaf 3/4 cup water 2 1/2 tablespoons balsamic vinegar 7/8 cup sour cream 3 TBLSP dark honey or molasses 3 TBLSP vegetable oil 2 1/2 cups bread flour 1 1/2 cup dark rye flour 1 1/2 TBLSP instant potato flakes 1 TBLSP + 2 tsp. gluten 1 TBLSP + 1 tsp. caraway seeds 1 1/2 tsp. ground coriander seeds 2 tsp. salt 1 TBLSP bread machine yeast or 2 1/2 tsp. SAF yeast Add wet ingredients and then dry ingredients into loaf pan in the bread machine. Use the standard setting. I bake mine in the bread machine but you can use the dough setting I guess. If using the bread machine to bake, set the crust on medium. Beth says the loaf is delicate when coming out of the pan so remove carefully and cool it standing on its side. I left it in the bread pan overnight to cool so didn't notice any delicacy taking it out. Lpink's notes: I used low fat sour cream and some non fat greek yogurt since I was almost out of sour cream. I drastically reduced the caraway and corriander. I used crushed caraway since I don't like seedy rye. I think I only used about 1/3 of both for the recipe. The flavor was still good with just that amount. I also used somewhat less salt, again maybe 1 1/2 tsp. I used half honey and half molasses for the sweetener. I also used some whole wheat bread flour in place of the plain bread flour, but not a whole lot, like maybe the equivalent of 1/2 cup for this recipe.

Dark rye flour is like using whole wheat flour, or a 100% extraction - it's milled from the whole grain so you have the bran, germ and endosperm making up the flour. Light rye is like using unbleached flour - 60% extraction - the bran and germ have been removed. Medium rye is between 75-85% extraction and may contain some bran/germ. Light rye will be much lighter in color and texture in a recipe than dark or medium rye. In and of itself, rye flour doesn't impact the flavor of bread all that much, it's all the add-ins associated with "rye bread" that flavor it: coffee, molasses, onions, caraway seeds, fennel seeds, etc. You can add caraway seeds to white bread and people will think it's a light rye bread because caraway is the flavor they associate with rye, not the rye itself. You can use rye flour in recipes that don't require a lot of gluten development - try it in cookies, muffins and other quick breads - in combination with wheat flour. What we call Pumpernickel Bread in the U.S. has very little in common with real pumpernickel, which is a heavy, coarse steamed bread. This was a favorite BM recipe from "Bread Machines for Dummies" by Glenna Vance and Tom Lacalamita. LIGHT RYE BREAD (instructions for 1-1/2 # loaf with changes in (----) for 2#) 1 c. water (1-1/2 c.) 4 t. vegetable oil (2 T.) 1-1/2 t. salt (2 t.) 2 T. sugar (3 T.) 1-1/2 t. fennel seeds (2 t.) 1 t. caraway seeds (1-1/2 t.) 1-1/3 c. medium rye flour (1-2/3 c.) 2 c. bread flour (2-1/2 c.) 2-1/4 t. active dry yeast (1 T.) - do not use a fast-rising yeast 1. Be sure all the ingredients are at room temperature before you place them in your bread pan in the order listed. 2. Select the Normal or Basic setting and a light to medium crust color and press Start. 3. Open the lid after the machine has kneaded the dough for about 5 minutes. the dough should be formed into a very soft, sticky ball. If the dough is sticking to the sides or the bottom of the pan, you need to add a bit more bread flour. If the dough appears firm, add more water. Your machine still has kneading time and will work the water into your bread dough. Keep checking your dough until you're satisfied that a soft, sticky ball has formed. 4. After the machine has completed the baking cycle, remove the pan from the machine and the bread from the pan to cool on a wire rack. If you cut the bread before it's cooled for about an hour, it will look doughy. The bread has to cool completely to allow the structure to set. Per serving - 12 servings per 1-1/2# loaf, 16 servings per 2#. Calories - 130; Protein 4 g; Carbohydrates 26 g; Dietary fiber 2 g; Total fat 2 g; Saturated fat 0 g; Cholesterol 0 mg; Sodium 290 mg. Grainlady note: This recipe is great with dilly cream cheese on it and topped with sliced cucumbers. I always made it with 100% rye flour milled from the whole grain I milled at home. PUMPERNICKEL \- makes 2 7x3\-1/2\-inch loaves (source: Bread of the World \- by Jennie Shapter) 4 c. dark rye flour 2 c. whole wheat flour 2/3 c. bulgur wheat 2 t. salt 2 T. molasses 3\-1/2 c. warm water 1 T. vegetable oil 1\. Lightly grease two 7x3\-1/2\-inch loaf pans. combine the rye flour, whole wheat flour, bulgur wheat and salt in a large bowl. 2\. Mix the molasses with the warm water and add to the flours and the vegetable oil. combine to form a dense mass. 3\. Place in the prepared pans, pressing well into the corners. Cover with lightly oiled plastic wrap and let sit in a warm place for 18\-24\-hours. 4\. Preheat the oven to 225\-degrees F. Remove the plastic and cover the pans tightly with foil. Fill a roasting pan with boiling water and place a rack on top. 5\. Place the pans on top of the rack and transfer very carefully to the oven. Bake the loaves for 4\-hours. Increase the oven temperature to 325\-degrees F. Top up the water in the roasting pan if necessary, uncover the loaves and bake for another 30\-45 minutes or until the loaves feel firm and the tops are crusty. 6\. Let cool in the pans for 5 minutes, then turn out onto a wire rack to cool completely. Serve cool, very thinly sliced, with cold meats. Cooks tip: This bread improves over time. Keep for at least 24 hours double\-wrapped inside a plastic bag or waxed paper and foil before slicing. \-Grainlady

I love the caraway seeds in rye bread, Dad didn't, so much. I told him it was too bad, if he wanted me to share, he'd eat it my way. LOL Actually, I divided the dough in half and added caraway to one loaf and left his without. Ann T's recipe is very good, I like it a lot. When I don't have sour cream, I make this one which calls for yogurt, I always have that because I make my own several quarts at a time. This is a dark pumpernickel rye from Dorie Greenspan. Carol/Readinglady first pointed me toward it, and for that I thank her. I've found prune lekvar in cans occasionally, but it's easy to make it using the directions in the recipe. I will admit that Dorie Greenspan completely lost me on the shaping and the resting in the sling, LOL. I cut the recipe in half, toss the wet ingredients in the bread machine after melting the chocolate, butter and shortening. I follow with the dry ingredients, top it off with the yeast and salt, set it on dough. When it's done kneading and rising I shape, rise and bake. (shrug) It works for me, but I'll give you the whole package deal, in case you want to do it that way. (grin) Pumpernickel Rye Bread 1 cup boiling water 1 tablespoon instant espresso 2 1/2 ounces unsweetened chocolate, coarsely chopped 1/4 cup unsulphured molasses 1 stick (4 ounces) [1/2 cup] unsalted butter, cut into small cubes 5 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast Pinch of sugar 1/2 cup warm water (105 to 115 degrees F) 2 cups plain yogurt, at room temperature 1/4 cup solid vegetable shortening 1/2 cup prune lekvar* (also sold as prune butter in specialty markets and some supermarkets) 2 tablespoons ground caraway seeds (grind whole seeds in a spice or coffee grinder) 1 1/2 tablespoons caraway seeds 1 tablespoon salt 3 1/2 cups coarse rye meal or medium rye flour 6 cups (approximately) high-gluten flour, bread flour, or unbleached all-purpose flour Melted butter, for greasing the mixing bowl * Prune Lekvar: Put 3 cups (packed) pitted prunes in a medium saucepan, cover with water, and bring to the boil. Lower the heat and simmer until the prunes are very soft, about 10 minutes; drain, reserving 1 tablespoon of the liquid. Place the prunes and liquid, 1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice, and 1/3 cup sugar in the work bowl of a food processor fitted with the metal blade and process until puréed. Scrape the prune butter into a bowl and stir in 1/4 cup very finely chopped walnuts. Packed in a tightly sealed jar, the prune butter will keep in the refrigerator for at least 2 weeks. Makes about 1 cup. Brush a large (about 8-quart) bowl with melted butter; set aside. Mixing and Kneading Put the boiling water and espresso powder into a small heavy-bottomed saucepan and stir to dissolve espresso. Add the chocolate, molasses, and butter and cook over low heat, stirring occasionally, until the butter and chocolate melt. Pour the mixture into another large (about 8-quart) bowl. Meanwhile, whisk the yeast and pinch of sugar into the warm water; let rest until creamy, about 5 minutes. Using a wooden spoon, stir the yogurt, shortening, lekvar, caraway seeds, and salt into the butter-chocolate mixture. When the ingredients are well blended and the mixture is just warm to the touch (no hotter than 110 degrees F), stir in the yeast and the rye meal. Using lots of elbow grease, stir in enough of the high-gluten flour, 1/2 cup to 1 cup at a time, to make a very moist dough. (You’ll probably use almost 6 cups of flour.) When it is too difficult to stir the dough, turn it out onto a work surface well dusted with high gluten flour and knead until smooth and elastic but still soft and moist, about 10 minutes. The dough may seem a little pasty at first ��" because of the rye meal ��" but its texture will change with energetic kneading. While you’re working, add only as much additional flour as you need to keep the dough from sticking to the table and your hands. (You can make this dough in a heavy-duty mixer fitted with a dough hook. Once the yeast and rye meal have been added to the other ingredients, mix on low speed, scraping down the sides of the bowl as necessary, for about 2 minutes. Add about 5 cups of the high-gluten flour, 1 cup at a time, and beat on low speed for 3 to 4 minutes. Increase the speed to medium and beat in as much additional flour as needed to make a soft dough that will clean the sides of the bowl, then beat for about 8 minutes, until the dough is smooth and elastic.) First Rise Form the dough into a ball and transfer it to the buttered bowl. Cover the bowl with buttered plastic wrap and top with a kitchen towel. Let the dough rise at room temperature for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, or until it has doubled in volume. Second Rise When the dough is fully risen, deflate it, turn it over, cover as before, and let it rise for about 1 hour, or until it doubles in bulk again. Rolling and shaping Deflate the dough, transfer it to a lightly floured work surface, and divide it in half. Work with one piece of dough and keep the other covered with a towel or plastic wrap. Lay 2 clean kitchen towels on the counter and sprinkle them with flour; keep close at hand. On a lightly floured surface, pat the dough into a rectangle about 8 inches by 14 inches. Starting at the short end farthest from you, roll the dough into a tight roll, pinching and sealing the seams you form with each roll as you go. Stand the roll on end and push your fingers down into the loaf, tucking some of the dough into the loaf as you burrow your fingers down into it. Then squeeze the end of the dough to elongate it, pinch it to seal, and fold each corner into the center, creating two triangles ��" it’s like making hospital corners on a bed. Tuck the end under the bread, attaching it to the bottom seam, and repeat the borrowing, squeezing, folding, and tucking with the other end of the coil. Rotate and plump the dough to get a nicely shaped, rounded oval. Place the loaf, seam side up, diagonally on one of the floured kitchen towels and form a sling by joining the opposite corners of the towel, slip an S-hook through the hole, and suspend the sling from a cupboard or door knob (or tie the ends of the towel together to form a sling and suspend it). Shape the second piece of dough in the same manner and tuck it intoa sling. Rest The loaves should rest undisturbed in their slings for 40 minutes. The Topping and Glaze Sesame and/or caraway seeds )optional 1 large egg white 1 teaspoon cold water Position a rack in the lower third of the oven and preheat the oven to 450 degrees F. If the loaves are to bake on a baking or pizza stone, preheat the stone too and generously dust a peel with cornmeal. Of they will bake on baking sheets, brush or spray one or two large, preferably dark steel, baking sheets with vegetable oil and sprinkle with cornmeal. For added flavor, use some sesame and/or caraway sees in combination with the cornmeal to dust the peel or sheets. (To create steam in the oven, you’ll be tossing ice cubes and water onto the oven floor. If you don’t think your oven floor is up to this ��" it can be tricky with a gas oven ��" put a heavy skillet or roasting pan on the oven floor and preheat it as well.) Whisk the egg white and water together and push the mixture through a sieve; reserve. Release the slings and transfer the loaves, smooth side up, to the prepared peel or baking sheet(s), keeping the loaves at least 3 inches apart. These loaves are very big and unusually soft, so handle them carefully. Give the loaves a last plumping with your hands and using a sharp serrated knife or a single-edge razor blade, slash the top of each loaf 3 times: The slashes should run horizontally across the loaf at a slight angle and should be about 1 inch deep. Paint each loaf with a generous coating of glaze, taking care not to paint the slashes. Sprinkle the loaves with caraway and/or sesame seeds, if you’re using them. Baking the bread Put 4 ice cubes in a 1-pint measuring cup and add 1/4 cup cold water. Put the loaves into the oven, immediately toss the ice cubes and water onto the oven floor (or into the pan), and quickly close the oven door to trap the steam produced by the ice. Bake the loaves for 10 minutes, then reduce the oven temperature to 350 degrees F and bake for 35 to 40 minutes more, or until the loaves are deeply browned and the bottoms produce a hollow sound when rapped. (The internal temperature of the loaves should measure 200 degrees F on an instant-read thermometer.) Remove the loaves and cool on a rack. The loaves must cool completely before they can be cut, so plan to wait 2 to 3 hours after baking. Storing You can keep the bread in plastic bags at room temperature for 2 days or wrap the loaves airtight and freeze them for up to 1 month. Thaw, still wrapped, at room temperature. This is a moist and sweet rye bread, very good with bean soup. Annie

I don't have a dark rye recipe, but I do have a pumpernickel recipe for bread machines. My recipe is for a Panasonic machine, and so you might have to adjust it for a Zo. Lars' Bread Machine Pumpernickel Bread (for Panasonic Bread Machine) 1 cup dark rye (or pumpernickel) flour 1/2 cup whole wheat flour 1-1/4 cups bread flour 2-1/2 tbsp semolina flour 1-1/2 tbsp vital wheat gluten 1-1/4 tsp salt 3 tbsp cocoa 1-1/2 tsp brown sugar 1-1/2 tbsp dried milk powder 2 tbsp caraway seeds 2 tbsp onion powder 2 tbsp melted butter 1-1/3 cup strong coffee (use 2 tsp coffee powder in warm water)* 2 tbsp dried chopped onion 1/4 cup molasses 2-1/4 tsp active dry yeast Combine the flours, salt, sugar, and milk powder in the machine. Grind the caraway seeds in a spice grinder (or coffee mill reserved forspices), and add the onion powder, if it is in chunks. Grind the onion powder (if necessary) with the caraway until there are no more chunks, and add to the flour mixture. Gently stir the ingredients together using a plastic spatula that will not scratch the surface of the machine. Add the melted butter, and stir this in gently as well, scraping off the spatula as needed. You can also use the internal paddle, turning it from the bottom, to mix these ingredients. I have found that mixing the dry ingredients together first makes a more even loaf – it does not hurt to give the machine a bit of help. Assemble the machine container into the machine, making sure to lock it in place (I forgot to do this once, and it was a disaster). Add the chopped onion to the coffee, and stir in the molasses. Pour the wet ingredients into the machine container, and close the lid. Add the yeast to the yeast dispenser in the top of the machine, and plug in the machine. Set to “basic” loaf and medium size. I prefer dark crust, but medium crust setting will work also. Turn machine on or set the timer if you want a delayed baking. After the bread is done, use the plastic spatula to gently loosen the sides of the loaf, and turn out onto a bread board. Butter all sides, top, and bottom of loaf, and set the loaf right side up on a wire rack to cool for 30 minutes.