I love the caraway seeds in rye bread, Dad didn't, so much. I told him it was too bad, if he wanted me to share, he'd eat it my way. LOL Actually, I divided the dough in half and added caraway to one loaf and left his without. Ann T's recipe is very good, I like it a lot. When I don't have sour cream, I make this one which calls for yogurt, I always have that because I make my own several quarts at a time. This is a dark pumpernickel rye from Dorie Greenspan. Carol/Readinglady first pointed me toward it, and for that I thank her. I've found prune lekvar in cans occasionally, but it's easy to make it using the directions in the recipe. I will admit that Dorie Greenspan completely lost me on the shaping and the resting in the sling, LOL. I cut the recipe in half, toss the wet ingredients in the bread machine after melting the chocolate, butter and shortening. I follow with the dry ingredients, top it off with the yeast and salt, set it on dough. When it's done kneading and rising I shape, rise and bake. (shrug) It works for me, but I'll give you the whole package deal, in case you want to do it that way. (grin) Pumpernickel Rye Bread 1 cup boiling water 1 tablespoon instant espresso 2 1/2 ounces unsweetened chocolate, coarsely chopped 1/4 cup unsulphured molasses 1 stick (4 ounces) [1/2 cup] unsalted butter, cut into small cubes 5 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast Pinch of sugar 1/2 cup warm water (105 to 115 degrees F) 2 cups plain yogurt, at room temperature 1/4 cup solid vegetable shortening 1/2 cup prune lekvar* (also sold as prune butter in specialty markets and some supermarkets) 2 tablespoons ground caraway seeds (grind whole seeds in a spice or coffee grinder) 1 1/2 tablespoons caraway seeds 1 tablespoon salt 3 1/2 cups coarse rye meal or medium rye flour 6 cups (approximately) high-gluten flour, bread flour, or unbleached all-purpose flour Melted butter, for greasing the mixing bowl * Prune Lekvar: Put 3 cups (packed) pitted prunes in a medium saucepan, cover with water, and bring to the boil. Lower the heat and simmer until the prunes are very soft, about 10 minutes; drain, reserving 1 tablespoon of the liquid. Place the prunes and liquid, 1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice, and 1/3 cup sugar in the work bowl of a food processor fitted with the metal blade and process until puréed. Scrape the prune butter into a bowl and stir in 1/4 cup very finely chopped walnuts. Packed in a tightly sealed jar, the prune butter will keep in the refrigerator for at least 2 weeks. Makes about 1 cup. Brush a large (about 8-quart) bowl with melted butter; set aside. Mixing and Kneading Put the boiling water and espresso powder into a small heavy-bottomed saucepan and stir to dissolve espresso. Add the chocolate, molasses, and butter and cook over low heat, stirring occasionally, until the butter and chocolate melt. Pour the mixture into another large (about 8-quart) bowl. Meanwhile, whisk the yeast and pinch of sugar into the warm water; let rest until creamy, about 5 minutes. Using a wooden spoon, stir the yogurt, shortening, lekvar, caraway seeds, and salt into the butter-chocolate mixture. When the ingredients are well blended and the mixture is just warm to the touch (no hotter than 110 degrees F), stir in the yeast and the rye meal. Using lots of elbow grease, stir in enough of the high-gluten flour, 1/2 cup to 1 cup at a time, to make a very moist dough. (You’ll probably use almost 6 cups of flour.) When it is too difficult to stir the dough, turn it out onto a work surface well dusted with high gluten flour and knead until smooth and elastic but still soft and moist, about 10 minutes. The dough may seem a little pasty at first ��" because of the rye meal ��" but its texture will change with energetic kneading. While you’re working, add only as much additional flour as you need to keep the dough from sticking to the table and your hands. (You can make this dough in a heavy-duty mixer fitted with a dough hook. Once the yeast and rye meal have been added to the other ingredients, mix on low speed, scraping down the sides of the bowl as necessary, for about 2 minutes. Add about 5 cups of the high-gluten flour, 1 cup at a time, and beat on low speed for 3 to 4 minutes. Increase the speed to medium and beat in as much additional flour as needed to make a soft dough that will clean the sides of the bowl, then beat for about 8 minutes, until the dough is smooth and elastic.) First Rise Form the dough into a ball and transfer it to the buttered bowl. Cover the bowl with buttered plastic wrap and top with a kitchen towel. Let the dough rise at room temperature for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, or until it has doubled in volume. Second Rise When the dough is fully risen, deflate it, turn it over, cover as before, and let it rise for about 1 hour, or until it doubles in bulk again. Rolling and shaping Deflate the dough, transfer it to a lightly floured work surface, and divide it in half. Work with one piece of dough and keep the other covered with a towel or plastic wrap. Lay 2 clean kitchen towels on the counter and sprinkle them with flour; keep close at hand. On a lightly floured surface, pat the dough into a rectangle about 8 inches by 14 inches. Starting at the short end farthest from you, roll the dough into a tight roll, pinching and sealing the seams you form with each roll as you go. Stand the roll on end and push your fingers down into the loaf, tucking some of the dough into the loaf as you burrow your fingers down into it. Then squeeze the end of the dough to elongate it, pinch it to seal, and fold each corner into the center, creating two triangles ��" it’s like making hospital corners on a bed. Tuck the end under the bread, attaching it to the bottom seam, and repeat the borrowing, squeezing, folding, and tucking with the other end of the coil. Rotate and plump the dough to get a nicely shaped, rounded oval. Place the loaf, seam side up, diagonally on one of the floured kitchen towels and form a sling by joining the opposite corners of the towel, slip an S-hook through the hole, and suspend the sling from a cupboard or door knob (or tie the ends of the towel together to form a sling and suspend it). Shape the second piece of dough in the same manner and tuck it intoa sling. Rest The loaves should rest undisturbed in their slings for 40 minutes. The Topping and Glaze Sesame and/or caraway seeds )optional 1 large egg white 1 teaspoon cold water Position a rack in the lower third of the oven and preheat the oven to 450 degrees F. If the loaves are to bake on a baking or pizza stone, preheat the stone too and generously dust a peel with cornmeal. Of they will bake on baking sheets, brush or spray one or two large, preferably dark steel, baking sheets with vegetable oil and sprinkle with cornmeal. For added flavor, use some sesame and/or caraway sees in combination with the cornmeal to dust the peel or sheets. (To create steam in the oven, you’ll be tossing ice cubes and water onto the oven floor. If you don’t think your oven floor is up to this ��" it can be tricky with a gas oven ��" put a heavy skillet or roasting pan on the oven floor and preheat it as well.) Whisk the egg white and water together and push the mixture through a sieve; reserve. Release the slings and transfer the loaves, smooth side up, to the prepared peel or baking sheet(s), keeping the loaves at least 3 inches apart. These loaves are very big and unusually soft, so handle them carefully. Give the loaves a last plumping with your hands and using a sharp serrated knife or a single-edge razor blade, slash the top of each loaf 3 times: The slashes should run horizontally across the loaf at a slight angle and should be about 1 inch deep. Paint each loaf with a generous coating of glaze, taking care not to paint the slashes. Sprinkle the loaves with caraway and/or sesame seeds, if you’re using them. Baking the bread Put 4 ice cubes in a 1-pint measuring cup and add 1/4 cup cold water. Put the loaves into the oven, immediately toss the ice cubes and water onto the oven floor (or into the pan), and quickly close the oven door to trap the steam produced by the ice. Bake the loaves for 10 minutes, then reduce the oven temperature to 350 degrees F and bake for 35 to 40 minutes more, or until the loaves are deeply browned and the bottoms produce a hollow sound when rapped. (The internal temperature of the loaves should measure 200 degrees F on an instant-read thermometer.) Remove the loaves and cool on a rack. The loaves must cool completely before they can be cut, so plan to wait 2 to 3 hours after baking. Storing You can keep the bread in plastic bags at room temperature for 2 days or wrap the loaves airtight and freeze them for up to 1 month. Thaw, still wrapped, at room temperature. This is a moist and sweet rye bread, very good with bean soup. Annie

shambo - Thanks for the link. The recipe looks interesting and as the author of the article spelled out, they certainly DID use the wrong pan size for that amount of dough (a common mistake in bread making that causes many failures). The shredding on the side of the loaf is a good example of too much dough in the wrong size pan. It didn't have enough rising time for that amount of dough before they tossed it in the oven. Glad they didn't submit that loaf for judging at the fair...(speaking from the perspective as a foods judge at fairs). All leaveners lighten the dough - whether it's from yeast or chemical leaveners, air, and steam from moisture in the dough - all of those are leaveners. As explained in "CookWise", "Yeast and chemical leaveners do not create new bubbles; they only enlarge air bubbles already existing in the dough." Perhaps a shot of chemical leavener is just the lift the bread needs to prevent it from being heavy. You'll also find waffle recipes that include both yeast and baking soda, but it's there for the lift that adds some lightness, not to neutralize the acidity. I'll have to do some more reading on the subject in my books... I find it interesting. -Grainlady

One of the chief characteristics of rye flour in bread is a really sticky dough, even with the proper amount of hydration. When the dough is sticky, we tend to add more flour, and often add too much flour during kneading, trying to get the dough soft and smooth like white bread dough. In the world of bread, dense bread usually means too much flour has been added, especially if it was a stiff dough. But let's also look at what happens from fat AND when the fat is added, because that has a cause and effect as well. Since the cream is high in fat (and I assume there was other fat in the recipe), adding it early in the mix will coat the gluten so it develops in short strands. This is the same method we use when adding fat to flour when making pastry. Where the fat coats the flour, water can't penetrate it and the gluten develops in short strands. The fat "shortens" the gluten - hence, short crust pastry. When fat, and large amounts of fat, are added early in the mixing, you will get a close crumb and not as much loft because of the shortened gluten strands. Adding fat late in the gluten development (towards the end of the kneading), you will get an open crumb and higher loft. Adding fat early in the mixing is how you get a close grained crumb for sandwich bread (so fillings and spreads don't drip through it). Adding fat late is how you achieve an open crumb for toasting (so the butter and jam have lots of pockets to fill). You can make the same enriched bread recipe and add the fat early in one loaf, and add the fat after the gluten has developed in the second loaf, and you will see a completely different size, crumb, and loft - even using the same recipe. It's not about what's right or wrong, but what kind of grain we want the bread to achieve according to how it's going to be used. You listed the amounts of flour in the recipe, but did you add more flour during kneading due to the stickiness of the dough? As always, only add enough flour to make a well-hydrated soft dough, and always consider the amounts of flour in the recipe as a good (or bad) guess, and you have to go by that often elusive "feel" of the dough, not the amounts of flour noted in the recipe. Rye bread is an additional challenge because the dough will remain sticky, even with the correct hydration. TIP: Add the high-gluten white flour and VWG a little at a time to your liquid first, and give it a really good workout between additions. Mix it with a Danish Dough Whisk (the perfect tool for making batters and doughs), or a wooden spoon if you don't have a Danish Dough Whisk, in order to work and develop the gluten during mixing. This is the best time to develop the gluten in a recipe with a mix of high-gluten and low-gluten or gluten-free flour/s. It may take two hundred (or more) strokes to develop the gluten while mixing, and mixing is a critical step where people get a little lazy and often fail to do a good job. If your dough is a shaggy mess when you start kneading it, it wasn't mixed properly. Add the low-gluten flour last, after you've done a good job of mixing the high-gluten flour in the mixture. Add only enough flour to make a soft dough. You should only require a small amount of additional flour during kneading if you did a good job of developing the gluten during mixing. There are a few tips for kneading rye bread due to it's stickiness: -Save some (or all) of the fat/oil in the recipe and oil your hands during kneading so you don't add too much flour. -Have a bowl of water handy and dip your hands into water during kneading, instead of adding more bench flour. It's always better to err on the side of a wet dough than a dry, stiff dough, and the wet hands won't stick as much to the dough, and will add a little hydration. The wet hand method is also good for kneading dough for English Muffins. A wet dough is what makes the characteristic holey texture in well-made English Muffins (but I digress). -Knead the dough on a Silpat (or other brand of silicon mat) because you won't need any, or very little, bench flour. Dough doesn't stick to the mat. If you don't have a Silpat, spray your counter with PAM cooking spray instead of using bench flour. -You can also place the dough in a gallon freezer-style zip-lock bag (the freezer bags have thicker plastic than the storage bags - a good thing). Press out the air and zip it shut. Knead the dough through the bag. If you need to adjust the hydration of the dough, you can still open the bag and add flour. When you are done kneading, turn the bag inside out to get the dough out. This is one bag you will toss in the trash because cleaning it is nearly impossible. -Get a pair of kneading gloves (aka dough gloves). Alcohol does not form gluten when it's mixed with flour like water does. It's used in pastry recipes so a little more liquid can be added to make it easier to roll-out so it doesn't crack, without over-developing the gluten strands from adding more water to achieve the same moisture level, which results in over-developed gluten and tough pastry. I suspect it does the same thing in your pancake batter. Beer in bread is mainly for the flavor. If you add a low-alcohol or alcohol-free beer to a bread recipe, you will get a completely different flavor, interestingly enough. Is your beer bread recipe a quick bread or a yeast bread? Typically, they are a quick bread, and the alcohol would be beneficial because quick breads are another bread we don't want a lot of gluten-development. -Grainlady

I'm not sure (I'm not much of a bread baker...just do it occasionally). I wonder if they would bake faster in the round pans since the dough would be spread out a bit more than in the loaf pans?? You'd need to keep an eye on them probably. As soon as the weather cools I plan to make this bread, now that I've been looking over this recipe. One loaf I like to slice while it's still warm so the butter melts on it - it is very good :)