Revised floor plan - please let me know if something seems off

11 years ago

In a nutshell, these are the big changes: I have incorporated the hutch to the left of the clean up sink, put in a prep sink on the corner of the island (something like a Kohler 33 Stages), and a 36 inch appliance garage between the ovens and fridge. I have opened up the doorway between the sunroom and kitchen to be 38 inches wide now instead of the current 32, and you can see an upper counter in the sunroom with stools that overlook the clean up sink. There will be a new entertainment island, which is smaller than the prep island, and will house the fridge drawers and an small sink. I intend to move the recycling to this island as well. Here it is:

And, here is the view when you walk down from the back stairs:

the view from the corner of the kitchen looking towards the wine cooler:

I need to work on the entertainment island dimensions, as it is too close to the back stairwell, which is next to the televsion. There needs to be more than 42 inches between the wall and the edge of the island, due to a banister and back stairs that are 21 inches deep going into the kitchen.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what I should put in there besides a drawer for charging phones, laptops, etc.? I also intend to put an old wooden and glass front cabinet on the wall next to the pantry, with a tv above and some open shelves surrounding it.

rhome410, bmorepanic, anyone else out there? I look forward to hearing from you.

This post was edited by tl1969 on Thu, Jan 10, 13 at 23:55

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Comments (9)

lavender_lass
11 years ago
Hi, thought I'd bump this up for you. I like the hutch, but are you sure you don't want more counterspace by the sink?

Have you considered adding on just a few feet to your main island, so you can add a stool or two on the end? Maybe something like this, so the stools would be at the same level as the rest of the island? Just an idea :) {{!gwi}}From Cottage house plans
tamarahl
Original Author
11 years ago
I feel good about 24 inches of counter space to the left of the clean up sink. I don't want to extend the main island as there is a doorway from the sunroom and I prefer to have a straight shot when walking from the sunroom to the kitchen. There are stools in the sunroom looking into the kitchen, and there is either stools to sit at on the entertainment island, to the left of the prep island or banquettes against the walls of windows for couch seating.
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Ok, here are our plans - let me know if there is anything ..
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Comments (5)
A lot of windows shown on the elevation drawings are not shown on the floorplans. Be sure your architect makes all the drawings show the same things...otherwise there could be confusion down the road. So sorry to hear about your RA. Planning for an elevator is a smart move! But may I ask why you've decided you want/need two staircases going up to the second floor? Building staircases isn't cheap and your house really isn't all that big. If it were me, I'd skip making the staircase behind the garage go up to the second floor and put the savings from that into going ahead and having the elevator installed now. (I assume the elevator would go where the 2nd floor linen closet is.) If your father is in good health at 82, he could easily live with you another 10 years...maybe even 15. And, the last thing you need to be dealing while suffering from RA and assisting an aging parent is the mess of a home renovation. I'd do the elevator now if at all possible and cut back on things like maybe granite countertops instead. Getting rid of the second staircase up would also allow you to make your 2nd floor laundry larger and more user friendly. Right now it is basically three skinny hallways. UGH! I'm sorry but that is a horrible design. (Speaking of which, I don't really see any need for a second doorway into the guestroom/bonus room. and having that second door just forces you to have a second hallway.) I'd get rid of the staircase, move the laundry room door up near the master closet and then incorporate that back hallway that currently lead down to the second door to the guest room into a nice large closet for the guest room...or maybe some linen storage to take the place of the linen room that is going to become the elevator shaft. Also, by cutting out the second staircase up, you can enlarge your first floor mudroom and make it more user friendly as well. So, unless you have strong feelings about keeping both staircases, you might want to consider cutting one out. As for having the piano upstairs, my only question is how are you going to get it up there? I've never owned a baby grand so have no idea how hard it would be to get one up a flight of stairs. You might want take the house plans by a piano moving company and get their input before you sign off on the plans. Also, while I see no need for two doors opening into the guest/bonus room from different sides, if you are going to have the piano up on the second floor in that "piano room" alcove, have you thought about possible putting a set of double pocket doors between the piano room and the guestroom/bonus room? With double 36" or 42" wide pocket doors, you would have the option of leaving them open and turning the guest/bonus room into a listening space where people could sit and enjoy a piano recital played on the piano in the alcove. Plus, imagine how pretty that nice large bonusroom/piano space could look with the doors pushed all the way open. And, when you do have guests, closing the pocket doors would still give them plenty of privacy since there is likely to be little reason for someone to wander down to play the piano when guests are staying in the bonus room. As for the kitchen, so run your plan by the gurus on the kitchen forum. Right off the bat it strikes me that while the fridge is in a reasonably good location for access by folks in the breakfast nook, it is not in a very good spot for use by the cook who will have to walk around the island to reach stuff like butter/milk while in the midst of prepping dinner. Also, a prep sink on the back counter is not likely to get much use because it is "around the island" from the stove. I suspect you will find that you wind up using the main sink all the time because all you have to do to reach it from the stove is pivot around. Just my thoughts. Hope some of it proves helpful.
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Hi, Buildinva. I really like the layout of your island, which allows the area to right (on your picture) of the sink to be the scullery, leaving the nice large area on the left for your cooking prep. The back wall seems pretty nice, especially the way the stove is centered on the opposite media wall, but is there room for a little tweaking here and there, working toward improving the balance even further? My home-grown philosophy is normally more that good function will explain placement and make functional placements look right, but the rest of my philosophy is that being visually pleasing IS a very important function (not just "form" as in form vs. function). This is especially true for kitchens like yours, as it will be a major feature of that terrific room. Regarding room for tweaking, for instance, that doorway to the office/garage is very wide. I suspect there's something nice about its 6+ feet you specifically want to keep since you're not narrowing it even a foot or two to gain more width for that side of the stove, but...? (The other side is wider, although perhaps that already looks quite right looked at from within the whole?) On that other side, do you have a particular plan for that long stretch of counter? Would it be your main work space, or the island? If you plan mostly working on the island, I'm wondering if the mass of the refrigerator on the left could be balanced with a similar, not equal but similar, storage mass on the right, while still leaving good work and open visual space on each side of the stove. Still musing on the right, what's behind that wall? Could the refrigerator and/or other storage, such as pantry pull-outs or broom pullout take a foot or two from the area behind and be set flush into the run of cabinets? Or, for that matter on the left? If so, a built-in look could be accomplished with a regular refrigerator. Oh, and 45" between island and back counter? Some people really want and need it. I made mine 35" counter edge to counter edge and it was a very good decision for me. (No surprise--I laid the whole thing out with boxes and plywood first.) DH and I bump bottoms now and then, but mostly it's me there, with just a brisk step-pivot from one to the other. Just a way of saying, the only good "rules" in your kitchen are the ones you make for yourself. :)
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Comments (28)
Duly noted re. the aisle widths. So, we shall see what feels right. Turns out the extra 12 inches of dead space behind the fridge and ovens I thought I would have to play with, is in my Dining Room, not the 1st bay of my garages :-( I plan to install a Sub Zero 42 inch built in side by side. It will NOT be fully integrated. So, a lot of my appliances, (food processor, juicer, etc.) are 14 inches high. If I make the counter between the fridge and ovens (baking counter) flush with the pantry doors I will have 12 inches (give or take) behind the countertop of dead space. Could I make that countertop 36 inches deep, and then hide those appliances behind an appliance garage, and keep the hutch countertop free for putting stuff down when removing or placing items on the shelves? Then I would still have 24 inches of available space to work on.
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Revised Kitchen Plans, still need advice please
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cpartist: I misunderstood about the MW and the corner cabinets. I do wish to go with an upper garage door enclosed microwave so I can swap it out – and realize I completely left it out of the Side View above. I'm not a fan of corner cabinets. I would rather have the storage in drawers on either side and have a blind corner if it meant that other cabinets on my run would be small like the 12" wide cabinet next to the pantry. To me a 12" cabinet is useless except to collect junk. I misunderstood this statement and understood it to mean lower: Whereas perhaps you were referring to upper: Not that it matters. I just misunderstood. Make the coffee bar narrower in depth…. mantlemount… Coffee maker can’t sit directly underneath TV no matter how high TV sits above, even if fully enclosed in a garage as steam escaping from blooming the grinds during brewing would eventually damage the TV. Also, if we make it narrow no room for mini fridge. The mini fridge needs space so as not to overheat. That Mantlemount is awesome, but w/o going into elaborate details, we are incorporating the TV into the cabinet in such a way it won’t work. DH will look at this and may change his mind tho’! As we go through this, we learn so many new ideas and it’s such a fantastic process! Doing a 30" upper with 18" above that is going to make the upper look top heavy and push down on the 30" cabinets. I would do a 36" high upper, a 12" high above that and then have your 6" crown. This was why I wanted to post the Side Views and I so appreciate your input. I wasn’t sure about heights of stacked upper cabs. Since your comment, in looking at various photos, seems the taller cabs below, with shorter above, as you just said, makes for cleaner lines, less heavy: vs. Therefore, I’ll change the stacked cab’s to the 36” and 12” as you suggested to see what it looks like. I feel we’ll both prefer it. I was allowing 5” for crown molding (included in that is a 1” filler to sit underneath to even out non-plumb ceiling heights). I am thinking the crown molding shouldn’t be over 4” in our kitchen as it might look overwhelming in respect to the rest of the house… I do want 18”, not 15” clearance between countertop and upper cabinets. 48" is the width of two cabinets together underneath. Yes, it was the arrow. Thanks for clearing this up, I was concerned we were missing some pertinent measurements a cabinet maker would need to know. I’ve made some mistakes I think in the Side View… #1: the 2” piece of stock (for side of fridge facing the Great Room) is fine, just showing it here. #2: the 2” piece of stock on the other side of the fridge shows it stopping at 2nd stack of upper cabs, which wasn’t intended and the measurements include it going all the way to the crown moulding. However… #3: needs to be the microwave garage, in which case, it needs to be wider. Question: So, and I don’t wish to appear stupid, but there may be rules I’m unaware of: if the stock on the oven side of the fridge (#2) only went on the side of the fridge that is exposed, I could add another 2” to the 24” wide upper cabs, 2” to the lower drawer bases, giving more room for the MW garage (and by garage, I mean garage door). See image below. Are there any rules/reasons Re: stock pieces on this side of fridge that would make this impossible to do? Question: Also, when I did the side view yesterday I didn’t add it all up… I’m coming in at (including leaving 2” stocks as original) 172” across for uppers, 171” across for lowers. Have I missed something from buehl’s layout? Lastly, I understand we are asking a zillion questions and very heavily relying on the 2 of you right now. If at any time this becomes too laborious, time-consuming, or tedious, please let me know.
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rhome410
11 years ago
I think 24 inches between your sink and hutch is plenty. It's what I have, and it never has felt crowded.

The main plan seems good to me now. Personally, I'd get rid of the diagonal corner cabinet and instead have one with a 90-degree front, so you have more floor space and longer counter-frontage on each run. Also, the doors on a 90-degree cabinet make a larger opening for easier access into the deep cabinet.

The entertainment island seems bulky and like overkill for what you get out of it. The raised bars limit the surface area, so it seems less useful for things like a buffet or something. Maybe I'm just not understanding how you envision using it.
herbflavor
11 years ago
I'd reduce the depth of the raised counter behind clean up sink, and truthfully wouldn't expect 4 users to perch there. It can be used to send dirty dishes across/the occaional snack dish/etc,so leaving a counter is fine,but shallower depth would actually be more useful/ . Instead, plan for more sitting around the outer island and improve it-soften the corner,maybe move it down a bit and furthur away from tvscreen,have seating on the 2 sides. The back of hutch cabinet,being visible, will need panels or something which will in turn follow with end panels to make it look right.Instead,for the money,I'd end it up from counter and have glass opening doors on both front and back, creating good usage and looks as well...and all that trim work/panels can be avoided or reduced.
tamarahl
Original Author
11 years ago
I agree that the entertainment island is too large for the purposes I need it for, so I have come up with this new island which has seating on both sides of the island that back up to the wall of windows. I hope 42 inches will be sufficient space for the stools and getting onto them.

rhome410, I had thought the angled cabinet was good for the corner as I want to put in the Korner King and it has nice pull out drawers which will be more functional if they are flat fronted. See the link here:
http://www.kornerking.com/product-p/ac2927-2cw.htm

The back of the hutch is a sunroom wall that houses HVAC and plumbing in the wall, so it cannot be glass, but I could do glass on the sides. Is the glass that much cheaper than wood panels? Or is it an aesthetic decision?

How deep would you make the upper counter behind the clean up sink, if not 12 inches?

Thanks, all. Getting closer!
tamarahl
Original Author
11 years ago
One last photo, which shows the two walls of windows where the entertainment island will go. I realized that "Walls of Windows" sounds much more modern and fragile than the reality.
herbflavor
11 years ago
I don't think you can get much of a trash/recycling cab in 12 inches. do a 90 degree turn for the installation of that sink cabinet-the 6 inch filler space hooks with the 12 inch trash cab for an 18 in cab-seriously useful now. The front of sink cabinet will be on the side where it says 24",but the important thing is the drilling of faucet-that can be done where you wish. How deep did you want the overhang at cleanup sink-in your sketch it looks 20 inches or more-I think 12 or 14 is nice-you'll use it-I just think the deeper dimension actually decreases usability.The hutch-so there is a cavity behind it for your housing of lines?
tamarahl
Original Author
11 years ago
I like borrowing the 6 inch filler and turning the sink cabinet, so it goes 24 inches back towards the fridge drawers, leaving me with a more useful 18 inch cabinet for trash and recycling. Thank you, herbflavor.

Yes, the wall in the sunroom, behind where the hutch will be, is full of HVAC lines and pipes and is the reason I decided not to gut the entire wall between the kitchen and sunroom in my remodel. I think the overhang at the clean up sink was bumped out to 24 inches, so it would align with the bar, when I thought it would go there. But that plan has been scrapped, so the overhang can revert back to the original 12 inches that was proposed. Thanks for catching that, I will need to bring this up with my KD.
tamarahl
Original Author
11 years ago
Having second thoughts about the location of the fridge and the ovens in my sketch. What would you say if I flipped them? So the wall would be (from left to right) ovens, 36 inch counter, 42 inch fridge and then pantry.

The good thing about this set-up is that there would be countertop on the island directly across from the fridge, unlike in the current configuration. I would like this landing zone for emptying groceries, and taking food out to prep. There would also be usable countertop space immediately adjacent to the oven. In the current configuration it is an appliance garage so the countertop is not usable for putting down hot stuff, you have to swing over the item to the prep island countertop and it is 51 inches away. Big deal?

Plus, if I do all this then I have a 36 inch deep walk-in pantry, that may need to be rebuilt, as it will be right next to the fridge (a 42 SZ Side by Side). The oven/fridge wall sticks out 27 inches while the pantry sticks out an additional 9 inches. Not beautiful, I know, but I really like having a larger walk-in pantry so I was willing to pay the price. Can I keep my 36 inch deep walk-in pantry with a 42 Inch SZ BI that is right next to it? I doubt it, won't the fridge door be unable to open? Should I ditch the walk-in pantry and do pull out shelves instead and make the wall flush from ovens to pantry?

Last but not least, if I move the appliances from the counter between fridge and ovens, to create a landing zone for the ovens, I will need to put the appliances on a counter below the tv, where I have 6 feet of space, to the right of the pantry, and to the left of the banister. It is only 21 inches deep, but will be right across from the entertainment island, and fridge drawers, so the coffee maker, toaster, juicer and blender would have a home.

Thoughts?

My brain is so tired from trying to fit all these kitchen pieces together. Please forgive me if I am not explaining myself properly.

Revised floor plan - please let me know if something seems off

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Revised floor plan - please let me know if something seems off

Comments (9)

lavender_lass

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