A good article on why maybe politicians on gun control isn't the answer, and one that certainly isn't pro-Republican:

CNN

Here is a link that might be useful: CNN Article

This post was edited by beaglesdoitbetter on Mon, Dec 17, 12 at 13:12

I am certain that no matter which side of the gun issue one is on, everyone who knows of Friday's horror has not only batted an eye but they have shed equal amounts of tears. Because one does or does not support a certain law does not mean they feel or care less than someone on the other side. Lets not forget our hearts are equally filled with sadness or we would not have responded to this post.

This post was edited by roarah on Mon, Dec 17, 12 at 13:25

I feel like there is a huge protection racket in place. The mobsters insinuate I must buy a weapon or hire someone with a weapon in order not to be hurt.

"I am like any other man. All I do is supply a demand."
Al Capone

I keep thinking I must be missing something. Correct me if I am wrong, but I haven't seen anywhere in interviews of teachers or former schoolmates of the shooter, that he had any history of inappropriate aggression. I'm not saying that he didn't have problems, but I'm not seeing any predictors for his violent behavior.

I'm all for increased access to mental health care, but we don't know if mental health and any presumed lack thereof is relevant in this case.

All I have read is that several years ago, his mother took up the hobby of collecting high efficiency weapons. And that she taught her son to use them.

It seems reasonable to conjecture that if she had not been able to buy these weapons, able to spew out 5 bullets/second, hundreds of them without reloading, that the ensuing horror would not have occurred.

A common ground that I am hearing is that the sale of these types of guns should be outlawed for civilians. I am not hearing a major call to ban all guns, just these types that are created for mass murder. I realize that the horse is already out of the barn, but outlawing the ammo for these weapons would be a start in restricting the use of the guns of this type that are out there. I also think that requiring periodic re-registration and proof of insurance to cover any liability caused by a gun, would be reasonable. Just I am required, as a responsible car driver, to have on my car.

I think you're exactly right, barb5. At least that's an excellent place to start, and seems, to my mind, to be implementation that makes the most sense - at least until we can formulate additional measures.

It bothers me that the discussion taking place right now is called "knee jerk" by some. To refuse to take action now leaves us vulnerable and prone to apathy. We can't afford to have that happen. The cost has already been unconscionably high.

I singled you and olliesmom out oakleyok because you BOTH referenced arming teachers and/or principals, but if I missed that someone else said that then I broaden my question to all those who believe teachers and administrators should be armed. Where should the guns go? Concealed on their persons, locked in a cabinet or just toted around and brandished when that teacher or admin feels threatened? What if the person objects? Should they be fired?

My point is that when you make statements like that, and I do understand your feelings of anger and frustration over this and violence in general on our Earth, you have to back it up with a plan. Who gets guns? What kind? How are they to be trained? Sorry, but it's not enough to make statements like "arm them", and than refuse to be specific while charging me with devolving the discussion and telling me I have my head in the sand because this is now the norm, which, thankfully, it isn't.

sandyponder

Fact: since 911 and the shoe bomber, we all are required to take off shoes at air ports.. yet since 911 there have been no changes in gun laws.
Also it was on the Today Show this AM one country, if I remember it may have been Switzerland, not sure? banned assault weapons (only) and has not had a mass shooting in 16 years.

Sunny, and the adrenaline that would be coursing through my veins as a principal, would be to STOP that guy!!

I know the principal would have to be in the right place-but I do believe they could save some lives-is it perfect? NO-but better than nothing right now!

FWIW, I am not in favor of ANY assault weapons and ammmo. We don't even own a gun. From what I hear on the news people are going out in droves to get their conceal and carry license so they can purchase guns and ammo asap.

sandyponder, so you would want to sit back and just watch something horrible happen? Because you do know that the "bad guy" WILL get a gun, someway, somehow! I don't get it! I don't think it should be the principal either, but, something has to go into effect RIGHT NOW until a better solution happens. I am glad our schools have at least thought about it, and have a crisis plan in order, and this is even before this last tragedy. I PRAY it never happens again!!

I agree that these monsters do prey on the innocent and probably wouldn't go into a business or school if they knew they couldn't carry out their plan. NO I do not know the answer!

Take away the guns and they will use something else-even worse.

Sunny, and the adrenaline that would be coursing through my veins as a principal, would be to STOP that guy!!

I submit that you would likely not even have time to react. You're going about your day, focused on performing rote tasks. He's single-minded to kill and hair-triggered. Your chances against him are not good, and I do not believe that arming administrators is the answer.

This post was edited by SunnyCottage on Mon, Dec 17, 12 at 14:27

Very well said, Roarah. Thanks for the breather...for coming from your heart...beautiful.

We have enjoyed a very civil & respectful conversation here, while many different perspectives have been presented. As engaging as this discussion is, as important as these issues are, it is helpful to stand outside of our thoughts for a bit & feel the common ground we share beneath our feet. We do all care.

I see in your last post, Roarah, the awareness that creates peace. You offer a reminder to rise above the polarities, concepts, ideas & beliefs. I believe that in addition to discussion, & thinking, that stepping outside of our thoughts & "being" in our hearts for a period of time each day...will guide us to appropriate action.

Nance, Sunny, Sandyponder, thanks for the affirming words. MizAnnThrope, thank you. You are fairly new to GW. Welcome! I have enjoyed reading your posts too!

barb5 - you just hit on an important part of this problem - it's relatively easy to see *warning signs* after the fact. Small moments, comments, behaviors that are spread over many years sometimes crystallize in hindsight but individually, at a moment in time they can be easily overlooked, rationalized or given less weight. I do not blame the mother, and won't, unless something is uncovered that clearly shows she had reason to project this type of possibility, and that's not likely. There are many loners in this world - most non violent. There are many people somewhere on the spectrum of mental illness that although may be troubled in one way or another from mildly to severe, do not ever commit such crimes as we have just seen.

We have witnessed a perfect storm of mental illness and access to guns - unfortunately, multiple times.

daisyinga, I also agree with your statement about our school administrators have too much responsibilty and then add knowing how to use a gun also. I get it.

sandyponder, no, they aren't touting around the guns at their side. I do not know what the crisis plan is, but they do have one in place, and it's better than nothing right now.

Sunny, hopefully we won't ever have to find out.

Great post Barb!

Re: arming schools

I read in one article that retired state troopers had been hired as guards for schools:
http://www.ydr.com/local/ci_22207493/2-western-pa-districts-arming-police-at-schools?source=most_viewed

What about a program for retired troopers and retired veterans, carefully trained in disarming suspects and in responding in high pressure situations, to be placed into schools?

We could fund it, in part, via higher taxes on sales of certain weapons (instead of banning weapons) and/or when possible, allow for a carefully screened volunteer program. I am sure that a fair number of retired military and troopers wouldn't necessarily mind taking a 4 hour shift or a one day shift to guard schools in their community.

So, I propose clear regulations on who can get guns (not an outright ban), comprehensive background checks, periodic re-registration, insurance for guns, and increase taxes on certain guns to pay for programs like this and/or for increased access to mental health services.

This discussion was remarkably respectful, as many have said, and I think that if we could open up frank, respectful and informed talks like this throughout our nation and look for everyone to come up with ideas, we could solve this problem.

This post was edited by beaglesdoitbetter on Mon, Dec 17, 12 at 15:07

susieq07 I don't watch am TV but I believe the country is Australia, which is much more similar to the US than Switzerland, if only in size.

olliesmom, our school has an emergency plan, and we received an email on Friday with the current one and today with an updated one and the changes they are making, which do not include arming anyone or installing metal detectors (thankfully). And no, I'm not going to sit back and do nothing, I have already signed a petition to ban assault weapons and have emailed all my federal elected reps to urge them to ban assaults weapons, large magazines and semi and fully automatic anything, to require an expensive license to own a gun and to tax the everlovin' out of any gun or ammo purchase.

We are not allowed to drive cars without insurance, inspection and registration, why should guns be different? And, of course I know that *some* people drive without inspections, registrations or insurance, *some* people also shoplift, skim from their employers and otherwise lie, cheat and steal. We can't not create laws because *some people* won't follow them, otherwise why have any laws, regulations or administrative processes?

Excellent post barb5.

sandyponder

Here is a link that might be useful: Australia gun laws (Wikipedia)

and your post is excellent too, sandyponder. Agree completely.

Good points, Barb & Dlm!

.

Beagles forgive me if you have already stated this fact someplace in this thread, I just can't read it all because in my view you are ALL RIGHT.

I'm just wondering if you are a parent Beagles? Your expectations of parents strike me as those of someone that hasn't had that much parenting experience?

Sunny, yes regulation to ban all weapons is a knee-jerk reaction. It is unrealistic and it has not been thought through to its logical conclusion and unintended consequences.

It is natural to have that reaction after a horrific event such as that which we have just witnessed. I found myself having the same thoughts when I first heard about it. But a ban on all weapons? It's a lovely idea to think we can live in such a world but the genie is out of the bottle and will NEVER be put back in. We have to deal w/the world as it is.

One last thought, FWIW. From what I understand, the shooting in Aurora, CO was at a Carmike (sp?) theater which has a "gun-free zone" policy at all of its theaters throughout the country. CO permits conceal carry and, from what I read, C/M was the only theater in the area which prohibits conceal carry. The killer sought out that particular theater for a reason.

O.K., any other comments from me and I will be repeating myself. I'm going to try and get in the Christmas spirit now. But, honestly, I just want to cry. Those children and their families have not left my thoughts, and I doubt they will for some time.

Peace to all.

same here, funnygirl!

Re warning signs about Adam Lanza, do you suppose that his mother telling his baby sitter to never turn your back on him a sign?

"His mom, Nancy, had always instructed me to keep an eye on him at all times and never turn my back or even go to the bathroom or anything like that, which I found odd, but I really didn't ask," Kraft told KABC. "It wasn't any of my business, but looking back at it now, I guess maybe there was something else going on."

I still don't quite know what to think -- it's like the reality of what happened just hasn't quite sunk in. On Friday, the tears just kept bubbling to the surface and I tried with great difficulty to retain my composure at work. On Saturday, I was just ... pissed. On Sunday, I had read so many comments online and given this so much thought that I just felt exhausted.

I don't like guns. I don't ever want to shoot a gun. However, we have handguns in the house. I don't want this country to become armed to the hilt -- I just don't think that's the answer. However, my feelings about guns and certain realities seem at odds. (Not talking about assault weapons here.) Right now, I don't know how to rectify reality and ideology; perhaps time will tell.

Did anyone see the interview with little Jessica Rekos' parents? It was heartbreaking beyond words. After they learned that their daughter had been killed, they returned home. Jessica's mom said she just crawled into Jessica's bed and stayed there. I'm sure that bed still retained Jessica's little girl scent. I can't even begin to fathom the depth of the pain. Can you imagine how difficult it must have been to simply go home after they were told that their daughter was dead? But what else could anyone in that position do? You have to keep going. You have to go back and keep on with life. But how? I just cannot imagine.

This is unspeakably horrible. Christmas, while not necessarily ruined for those of us on the outside of this tragedy, is certainly tainted. I don't know how to get into the holiday spirit. It all seems so hollow.

Oh Sunny, I feel exactly the same way.
I want to go out on this note: see link below (I hope it works).

Here is a link that might be useful: All You Need is Love

I agree Sunny. I am having a harder time with this than I did with 9/11. I have been crying since 10am Friday. I am not watching the news because I do not want my six year old to be at all exposed to this. She has a fever today and I was so relieved to have a reason to keep her home with me today. I keep thinking how all the children in the school and all the families of those lost will never know 100% happiness again.

I have only one child and I keep thinking that if mine had been lost on Friday I would have followed her out of this world and I know that is not a good answer but I have that option for I would not need to continue on thru the pain for my other children.Many of these poor parents will have to parent while grieving and that has to be the hardest job ever. I wish them all the love in the world and I hope this never happens to other parents again.

I felt a little sick to my stomach when I dropped my 6th grader off at school today. I wonder how long it will take to not feel that tiny moment of panic when I leave her there.

Then when I came home, I locked the door, which I never do. And I am sooo not the panicky type. These events could turn me into one, though.

Annie - I have not heard/read that anywhere but will say those word alone from the babysitter are not an indictment of the mother or proof that she knew something ominous about her son. I may or may not have used those exact words with a sitter but likely said something similar - our youngest was a climber. We once found him on top of our refrigerator. Context is everything. There could have been more to it, or not. We just don't know.

For what it is worth, know that the sadness and grief doesn't stop at your borders. I live in another country, but I'm completely devastated at the absolute horror of what has happened. I have trouble thinking about anything but what those parents are going through. And how something like this could happen. I have a 5-year old and an 8-year old. Horror and grief on this scale know no borders.

Sochi, thank you for posting and reminding us that this is not "our" tragedy alone. This horrible event is now a part of every parent, every grandparent, every brother, every sister, every aunt, every uncle -- every human being in the world who has ever loved a child.

You all may have seen this photo, purporting to be Pakistani children lighting candles for the Newtown victims. This moved me to tears.

I can't bring myself to read any more about this tragedy! Pray, pray, pray for less violence in our world, and the many familes that have suffered. God is our only source of hope in changing things and making the world a better place for our children. Unfortunately, He doesn't hear enough prayers and seems to be forgotten in today's world, and a price will be paid for our negligence. I believe it's inevitable and we will pay a price in our foreseeable future. We are in an age where we're being judged, and we'll be 'hit'(hurt) where we'll feel it the most. Our children *are* our life, what can hurt more?

The court system *can* change things, but we need God working behind the scenes ~'thru Him, all things are possible'.

I do not attend church, nor am I a 'born again', just a believer.

Please dis-regard my post if you're agnostic/atheist. I wanted to speak *my*
piece, not start contraversary on anyones beliefs. Thank you.

I can't bring myself to read any more about this tragedy! Pray, pray, pray for less violence in our world, and the many familes that have suffered. God is our only source of hope in changing things and making the world a better place for our children. Unfortunately, He doesn't hear enough prayers and seems to be forgotten in today's world, and a price will be paid for our negligence. I believe it's inevitable and we will pay a price in our foreseeable future. We are in an age where we're being judged, and we'll be 'hit'(hurt) where we'll feel it the most. Our children *are* our life, what can hurt more?

The court system *can* change things, but we need God working behind the scenes ~'thru Him, all things are possible'.

I do not attend church, nor am I a 'born again', just a believer.

Please dis-regard my post if you're agnostic/atheist. I wanted to speak *my*
piece, not start contraversary on anyones beliefs. Thank you.

As an agnostic, I am so happy you have your faith patty-cakes. How can anyone, believer or not, begrudge something that offers such comfort to so many people. I hope the surviors have hope and a faith so strong to get them through this sad time.

i just had to add that i heard on the news that a.l. was wearing a bullet proof vest... whether this is accurate information or not, i don't know. but, to think that an armed principal/school personnel or a security guard for that matter could have most likely prevented this from happening is probably very naive... whether a.l. had previously been diagnosed with mental illness or personality disorders, he clearly was BEHAVING as a crazed sociopath at the time of the shootings and someone with a handgun in that school probably would have had absolutely no impact at all on the situation. the element of shock and surprise is what helps make these types of attacks so successful.

yes, i would definitely support a ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons and ammo, but i also feel that in the case of really disturbed people, a means to their end will be found...

i don't think there is an easy answer--i don't know if there's any answer... there always has been mental illness &/or evil and there always(in foreseeable future at least) will be. 'we' have fortunately and unfortunately been growing by leaps and bounds technology wise in ways that our forefathers never dreamed possible... makes our world progressive, exciting, and alittle scary!

unfortunately, many 'assaulters' are bright people and so often, bright people with goals are able to succeed...

Here's what is not helpful....

Reports are that Westboro Baptist Church is planning to protest at funerals for the victims of last week's massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School...Church members are attributing the murders of 26 students and teachers at Sandy Hook Elementary School to Connecticut's recent legalization of gay marriage.

Neither was the bomb threat received at one of the churches in Newtown where a prayer vigil was being held.

What IS wrong with people!!!

Annie, I heard that yesterday. When I mentioned it to my husband, he said he was willing to take the day off and drive up there to join in any effort to prevent those lunatics from being ANYWHERE near the grieving families! I'd be right there in the seat next to him. Is there any credibility to that rumor?

I am so incredibly sad and full of grief about what happened last Friday. I am tearful and exhausted, not sleeping well and stuffing my face with every scrap of comfort food I can find (and not finding it comforting at all). Each little piece of news I hear or read just drills into my heart so painfully. I can't stop thinking about this and it is horrible. Can one be traumatized without having gone through an event first hand? How is everyone else here coping emotionally?

I am so incredibly sad and full of grief about what happened last Friday. I am tearful and exhausted, not sleeping well and stuffing my face with every scrap of comfort food I can find (and not finding it comforting at all). Each little piece of news I hear or read just drills into my heart so painfully. I can't stop thinking about this and it is horrible. Can one be traumatized without having gone through an event first hand? How is everyone else here coping emotionally?

judithn, you certainly can traumatize yourself, which it sounds like what you are doing. It is not good for you. Go find someone who needs your help and help them. Take your own grief and turn it to compassion for someone else. It will make you feel better, make someone else feel better, and distract you from obsessing over the event. It happened, it was tragic, be sad, and then let it go.

I spoke with my cousin who lives in Newtown and they spent Saturday ministering to the people of Newtown....it helped them and those they consoled.

I can't watch any more. I've been through this with other tragedies..... realizing I'm getting worse, not better, and have had to just turn it off. This hurts so much, it truly is unfathomable how much it must be hurting the people of Newtown. I was thinking today about a child's funeral we went to a few years ago. How much that hurts...for a long time. How many children's funerals are some people going to attend? How can this poor town bear all of this?

Fourkids4us, as far as Westboro Baptist, I'm afraid so.

That's a really good idea, AnnieD. I'm going to take your advice and do just that. This is the perfect week for it. Merry Christmas everyone.

Yes, that is excellent advice, Annie.

Here's something that may be of interest:

Here is a link that might be useful: 26 Acts of Kindness

Feel compelled to comment.

For those of you who don't think banning guns/weapons won't work --have you ever traveled outside of this country? One of the reasons I like to vacation in Europe is that wherever you go pretty much the most common type of crime would be pick pocket --you aren't likely to get shot.

Cindyloo-point well taken about the psychotropic drugs. These are powerful drugs with unpredictable side effects --violence is one known side effect. Add that to the number of people in this country that are on 'something' for their mental status and add some guns = disaster.

For those of you who think the principal should have a gun? Sorry to insult anybody here but really are you kidding? Suppose she didn't like the looks of the kid and just blasted his head off then to find out he was just an innocent visitor. For example my daughter got a knock on the door the other night that there was a 'robber' by her carport. Her reply was, "did he look like this man?" Turns out the neighbor saw her husband--should she just have taken a few shots at him?

We make our kids use car seats, wear seat belts, get immunizations, provide good nutrition, get health/dental check ups, etc. But yet we allow an environment in which their entire classroom can be taken out in two minutes? That's NOT freedom and that certainly takes away our "greatest country in the world myth.

Get rid of the guns, ammo, etc. I'm sick of the NRA lobbyists running our country. I want my freedom too, I want to go to the mall, send kids to school, go to the movie, walk into a grocery store, parking lot etc without fear of getting shot. I work in a hospital, another public place that has seen violence. Should I start wearing a gun?

If these shootings had been perpetrated by a middle eastern 'terrorist' you can bet we'd be planning bombing raids as I write. There is no defense of these weapons in a civilized country.

Two days before Newtown, we had a shooter at one of our local malls. Everyone I talk to is nervous to go out to the malls right now. I work for the State, and I worry about nuts coming into our building and firing off shots.

There is a young man who claims to have a CCW and he allegedly drew a bead on the mall shooter, claims to have made eye contact but he didn't shoot because there were other people near by. Then the story goes on to say that after that the shooter killed himself. I say this is 'allegedly' because law enforcement has given some conflicting reports. Regardless, if he did or didn't, the mall is posted as a Gun Free Zone...so that didn't stop a CCW carrier.

I don't think these assassins chose gun free zones for that reason, they go where they KNOW they're going to be able to cause mass casualties.

Another thing I try to point out is that very, very few people posess the absolute control that a tactically trained person has. All these shooters wear body armor, therefore it'd require a sniper kill shot to the head to take them out. Good luck getting some weekend paper target shooter to make a shot like that, much less someone who rarely, if ever draws a weapon.

We all like to think we will be in command if an emergency crisis occurs, but it's just not in our nature! Having to kill someone is not something the majority of citizens has ever had to comprehend in real time. And to have the ability to identify a danger and act? Yeah right. My very first instinct would be to take cover and run, get to a safe place and then, and only then, take offensive measures.

I think everyone who thinks they should walk around with a gun on their person try this experiment. Go into a public place with a friend, one that is well populated. Instead of your gun, have a rubber band shooter or some other non-lethal 'gun'. Have your friend shout out KITTY CAT! and turn to point to a 3rd person who is wearing a clown wig and has a similar 'gun'. That person is a shooter. Now, whip out your 'gun' and 'shoot' the shooter. Of course, it's going to be at a random point in time, you're in on this...but you don't know when or where it'll happen. Now, lets time your reaction and see if you actually hit the target and/or were YOU or someone else hit. A non-lethal exercise to gauge just what a Dirty Harry you are.

I hate that people need to have a gun in the home for protection, but in some cases it is needed, if you live in a rural area where law enforcement is far away. In that case, I'd certainly hope you have a couple of big, loud dogs as an early warning system. But if you have a gun in the home, why does it have to be a weapon capable of shooting more than 6 bullets at a time? Really, if you're in a situation where an intruder has a semi-auto-chances are you're already going to kiss your hind end goodbye.

I wouldn't worry about the Westboro "church". The anti-protest groups completely neutralize them at the actual funerals. The mourners probably will never be able to see the "church" members and their signs.
Westboro's tactics are actually a brilliant way to bring attention to their cause. They do something so offensive it becomes news. They will piggyback on the coverage of Newtown because they can.

If there is any problem that would immediately stop if the press refused to report on it, it is the Westboro situation. Why can't they just alert the anti-protesters and refuse to say a word about it in the news?

I have never been to Newtown, CT. I don't know any of the murdered, nor any of their families. And yet, when I hear or read their names, something in me clutches, and then I cry. I haven't been able to focus much on other things since Friday.

Today, I will honor the dead by writing my letters. To my state representatives, to my governor, and to my federal congressman and senators. I have several people, all registered voters in my district, who want to add their signatures.

It is way past time to get these weapons of mass murder out of our communities. And it needs to be done before another Newtown occurs. And it will occur, unless something is done to change things.

Enough is enough.

Annie, I also agree that your approach is a wise & loving one. I am SO proud of you for taking this stance! You sound like you are in a good place. Thanks so much for sharing from your heart.

If events like this don't draw out our love & compassion & sense of unity with humanity, I don't know what would.

Also, as MizAnnThrope implied, Christmas is the time we are reminded to engage in "peace on earth good will toward all." Of course, we are called upon in every moment of every day to bring love into the world, but this time of year sends that message like no other.

In the midst of this seasonal reminder to be loving, the tragedy moves us to "feel" what we often just "know" in our heads: that life is fleeting, each person is precious, & loving is the only thing that makes sense.

Btw...MizAnnThrope, you are not a misanthrope at all.

Thanks, writersblock...I'm sending the link out to friends...so many of them have been suffering too. Perhaps if we can turn this tragedy into a movement toward kindness and generosity and compassion, then some good can arise out of all this pain.

Please note:

Letters of Condolence can be sent to PO Box 3700, Newtown, Connecticut 06470

For those who need some more emotional support, I'm attaching a link below to Meditation Oasis where they have free podcasts of guided meditations, including those on compassion, pain and grief. If you are not into meditation, a guided meditation can often be helpful for novices, and for those who are too stressed to meditate without assistance. Different from prayer, meditation allows you to reach your internal emotions and express them rather than bury them which is not healthy. They can be very powerful and very helpful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Meditation Oasis

Writersblock, I missed your link earlier. Thanks for sharing...it is truly lovely. Ann Curry is the ideal person to write about this...she seems like such a gentle, caring person.