Replacing 2 Central A/C and Furnace systems

14 years ago

We are located in North Dallas and the house is 3800 sq ft with 2 levels. The family room has a 18 ft ceiling and the foyer has the same height. The house also has a media room sitting on top of a 3 car garage facing north and west. The master bedroom has the same direction. The first level is 2400 sq ft and the upstairs is 1400 sq ft. Currently the 5 ton unit is dead and the 3 ton is working with leaks in the coil.

I have received multiple quotes and is thinking to go with the following units.

*Carrier 24ANA160A003 Infinity 21 condensing unit.

*Carrier CNPHP6024ATA tin coated cooling coil with expansion valve.

*Carrier 58CVA110-1-22 Infinity furnace, 80.0% AFUE, electronic ignition,

*Carrier SYSTXCCUID01 Infinity electronic digital programmable thermostat

*Add a third return in the hall ceiling.

*Carrier 24ANA136A003 Infinity 21 condensing unit,

*Carrier CNPHP4221ATA tin coated cooling coil with expansion valve.

*Carrier 58CVA070-1-12 Infinity furnace, 80.0% AFUE, electronic ignition,

*Carrier SYSTXCCUID01 Infinity electronic digital programmable thermostat

No new ductwork required and new units are connected to existing piping, lines and wiring.

Total cost - $15,000

Your opinions are greatly appreciated.

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Comments (9)

ryanhughes
14 years ago
For your area, I think those are good systems, and the price quoted seems reasonable considering they are top of the line systems.
pacertx
Original Author
14 years ago
Ryan,

Thank you for the reply.

Will I lose any comfort or efficiency by selecting the Performance series? I know it is less $ than the Infinity series.
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You're really not going about this the right way. You would be best off changing both the indoor coil and the outdoor condenser at the same time. The old coil is likely 34 years old too and could be leaking. Putting a 13 SEER condenser on a coil that is rated at around 6-8 SEER is really harming your outdoor unit. Make an investment and don't hurt your new outdoor unit; it needs a matching indoor coil for a warranty and guaranteed performance. R-410a would be a good idea but R-22 will still be available in the future for quite some time. No way should a new indoor coil be adding around $2k to the cost. I don't know why he's quoting so much more--maybe because they'll have to go into the attic? Get everything in writing: warranty, load calculation to guarantee proper sizing, extra parts, etc. New refrigerant lines for a R-410a system would be highly recommended. Good luck. Oh, and I'm not sure if I'd recommend Heil equipment. You'd be getting cheap grade equipment, but if that's all your budget allows, just make sure you're getting a quality installation. I think I'd consider another brand though. Goodman would be on my list if I had limited funds.
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The price of propane is rising, isn't it? In this case, I'd consider heat pumps that will switch over to propane when the temperature is low enough to warrant the use of propane over the efficient heat pumps (around 35-40* or so). Few matchups will get near the 19-20 SEER range. You need the sizes and full model numbers of the equipment being quoted to know for sure. Trane, Carrier and Bryant all make fine products. If going with Carrier, ask for a tin-plated copper coil (heard of leaking problems with Carrier's *ACA standard copper coils--I guess all mfg's have leak problems). The Infinity/Evolution is a nice system. I personally favor Trane over Carrier--I think Trane's quality is hard to beat, but that's just my opinion. I do wish the XL19i was available in R410A, but that will be a little later. Is your electricity particularly expensive? Going with the top-of-the-line SEER/units may not have a great payback. 20 years old? They've done their time. As far as duct noise goes, if your ductwork is sized correctly, then you should be fine. However, the variable-speed blowers maintain proper CFM and will overcome slightly deficient ductwork systems. If the ductwork system is undersized/deficient, it will be louder as it attempts to maintain proper CFM (versus the PSC blowers where if the ductwork was poor it wouldn't vary its speed to maintain airflow). If it's quiet now, I don't think it will be a problem--I'm just pointing this out about variable-speed blowers. Once you get a few quotes, post back with the info and we can advise.
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ryanhughes
14 years ago
You can still keep the Infinity interface with the Performance series outdoor units, so it will still do an adequate job with dehumidification. However, with the 2-stage units, they can run in low stage for longer periods of time, helping even temperatures and reduce humidity. In my opinion, if you're going for a higher end system with the Infinity controls, keep the Infinity outdoor units if they are a feasible option in your budget.

It may be worth your while to get another estimate or two, if nothing else for comparison.

I tend to recommend a more simple system myself, but your price for 2 Infinity systems installed is attractive, and for your location, I think you'd benefit from the 2-stage operation. I assume the dealer sized both units properly (that's step 1 to efficiency/comfort). The fact that they recommended an additional return is a good sign that they understand the need for adequate return air for these systems to work well.
ryanhughes
14 years ago
I assume you are aware, but the 3 ton system qualifies for the energy tax credit ($1500). That would bring your effective net cost to $13,500.
pacertx
Original Author
14 years ago
Ryan,

I have gone out to get a few more estimates and all of them were higher with the same setup.

The dealer measured the house and windows and came back to about the same size. He also told me the tax credit on the 3 ton system.

Did I leave anything on the table? One Lennox dealer recommended moving the units closer to the attic because he thought the lines from outside were long from the current location. Then I spoke with the Carrier dealer and he thought they are fine.

Thank you again for the reply.
ryanhughes
14 years ago
If you're comfortable with the dealer, and the dealer has a strong, well-backed reputation, then I think you'd be very happy with those systems. Do you have experience with this company, or do you know others who do? The dealer is the deciding factor. You want one whom you're comfortable with and who will be there down the road.
pacertx
Original Author
14 years ago
The dealer did an installation of a 4 Ton Infinity on the same street a few months back. I went to visit the home and saw the unit which is pretty big. The owner has used the dealer a few times and is satisfied with the work.

Ryan, I get one more question on the furnace for the 5 Ton system. Should I select a Carrier 58MVB100-F-1-20, 93.7% AFUE? It will cost additional $1,000.00. My average monthly gas bill for the winter(Nov to Feb)has been around $200.00 for the past few years.
ryanhughes
14 years ago
I think the 58MVB is being phased out in favor of the 58MVC, so if you did get the upgrade, I'd request the 58MVC for the same cost.

It would be up to you, but given your location is Texas, I thought the 80% furnaces didn't seem out of line. For most other areas, I would certainly recommend a 90+ furnace.

Others here will probably give you their thoughts on the payback. I don't have gas in my home, so not sure if $200 is reasonable for your size home with 2 furnaces and appliances or not.
pacertx
Original Author
14 years ago
Ryan,

I asked the dealer to order 58MVC with the same price. Hope he will do it.

I thought I am done with the questions. However, I get one more question for you. The dealer told me that the systems come with 1" filer and I can request for the 4" filter. He also recommend the Honeywell Electronic Air Cleaner F300E with a cost of $800 per system. What do you think?

Replacing 2 Central A/C and Furnace systems

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Replacing 2 Central A/C and Furnace systems

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