Are you certain the supporting feet are evenly or nearly-evenly weighted? This simple installation imperative is frequently overlooked even by supposedly-professional installation techs. The machine's own suspension components cannot work properly unless they can bear on evenly-weighted/supported feet.

Otherwise, there are, indeed, some flooring configurations that simply will not work well with rotating/reciprocating machines. Yours may be one of those. Do you have access to underneath that floor? Adding a couple screw-jacks down there for support may help.

Miele makes good machines. With proper weighting and support, it should be operating as smoothly as anything out there. Are you sure the shipping bolts were removed? Are there internal suspension components that have come loose? Just thinking.

Hi jsfox,
Please read my thread on page 14. (returned Miele machines)
Our floor was very strong also. Seems like the least vibrating machines are the Whirlpool Duet and Sears HE5T made by Whirlpool. We bought the new Duet steam aspen greens and guess what ? The metal vent at the rear of the drum is starting to rust. (2 months old) The sensor dry does not work properly either. I'm sorry jsfox, whatever the brand or model, its seems they are all junk.

How often do people typically see the rear of their washers and dryers? Our Duets will be under a countertop, and unless there is some symptom I doubt we'll be pulling them out for a look very often.

Does anyone have a remedy for stopping washer vibration on a second floor laundry room?
An addition of shock absorbers? or Building a wooden structure for more support? Please help!

I will second darboydoughboy's recommendation on the HE5t with regard to 2nd floor install. We have had both 5kg Asko's and Danby's in our 2nd floor laundry room and the HE5t transfers the least vibration of the lot. Yes you hear noise during the high speed spins (if you started a Boeing 747 engine on your 2nd floor you'd hear noise as well), but it doesn't shake the house. The HE5t is positioned in a different place within the room vs. the prior machines and does sit about 3 feet closer to where the joist hangers meet the bracing around the main stairs opening. Vibrations both big and small in complex structures can be unpredictable and nasty to control if the natural resonance of the structure is sympathetic with the thing creating the vibration. Once went crazy trying to tame a hot water heating pipe vibration that was making a subtle but audible sound on the first floor every time the hydronic air handler went on. Every place the pipes came in contact with the floor joists was cushioned in thick foam, but the problem remained. Rerouted the plumbing so all the pipes were supported on the concrete wall of the basement and off the joists and the problem went away. Just shows how vibrations can drive you crazy and be very difficult to stop.

I'm not sure about building structures or other floor issues but,I picked up some vibration isolation pads (KE shake away pads) that did reduce the viibrations and keeps my machine from walking all over the floor and my house doesnt shake like an earthquake any more. I found them online at Lowes.com. They didn't have them at my store yet, but they called the manufacturer and had some sent to me. THANK GOD IT WORKS!

Hi chipshot,
When you get your new Duets, check out the rear of the dryer drum. (inside) Tell me if the silver plate with the holes starts to rust after 2 months. Tell me if the drum makes a thumping noise once every revolution and tell me if your sensor dry keeps your dryer running and NEVER turns it off. If you have none of these things, then I will figure the good Lord is making me do penance. Sure hope you did not order the biscuit colored pair as the washer made in Germany is a different color shade than the dryer made in Ohio.

Here is what Miele states about the W4840 installation taken directly from the manual:
Installation site

For best performance front loading washers should be installed on the ground floor or basement of the building.

A concrete or reinforced floor is the most suitable surface for the washer. These floors are less prone to vibration during the spin cycle.

If the installation must be on a wooden joist floor:
the corner of a room where the stability of the floor is at its greatest is the best place to install the washer.
à the machine must be leveled and securely positioned.
à to avoid vibration while spinning, the machine should not be installed on soft floor coverings.

Install the unit on a 1 1/4" (32 mm) thick, 28" x 31" (71x78 cm) wide plywood base. Ideally the base should be large enough to span several joists and should be anchored to the joists and not just the floor boards.

If the machine is installed on a raised platform it must be secured with retaining clips available from your dealer or Miele.

If installed on a masonry or concrete base, the base should have a 1/2" (13 mm) to 3/4" (19 mm) high rim. This must be done to prevent the washer from vibrating off the stand during the spin cycle.

Page 42, Miele W4840 Manual

The manual, in PDF form, can be downloaded from the Miele website: Miele W4840 Manual

Our installation is on the first floor post-tensioned concrete slab.

This is just one more reason that I love my TL HE Harmony.

darboydoughboy,
We specified white Duets but didn't indicate any sourcing preference. It will probably be two or three months (hopefully not longer!) before they are installed and we are using them.

My fingers are crossed that we won't experience any of the problems you described and that yours will soon be resolved. I'd like to think we've already done our penance, and then some.

If you post a photo of the rust, it should be a good reminder for me to check our dryer.

Someone up in this thread asked for a solution to second floor
washer vibration issues in the laundry room. Another post mentioned the use of keshakeaway pads. These are vibration isolation pads that work. They also reduce noise. They do not stop machine from vibrating but do reduce/eliminate the transfer of that vibration and noise to the floor structure. They work.

I had this same problem in my first floor laundry room with the Bosch Nexxt. That is why I now own a Cabrio HE.

I have a Miele 1215 on the first floor and it vibrated a bit to. However, using trial and error balanced it out. Level and balance are not the same. There is a thread here on this (sorry, not time to find it for you). Another thing you have to do is reniforce your floor. You can do is this if you can manage this in your basement.

Sister as well as bridge the joists in that 7' span. Try bridging first. If that doesn't do it, get two 6-8 foot jacks from Lowes/Home Depot. Set a 2x8 and use the jacks and that board to run perp. to the joists just under the front of the washer.

All of these things together will reduce vibration. I know some people will whine and blame the machines (any brand), but houses were never designed to handle 200+ pound machines spinning at 1600 RPMs. If you want the wash out of the basement, then you have to do the work to make it work. These are the dues that have to be paid! :-)

As for damaging your house, outside of plaster or drywall I think the answer is no. It is not going to damage your house in a structural sense - like your joists will fall apart some day and your floor will drop into the basement. Houses are bouncy! Again, beefing up those joists will help a lot. I did all the things listed above, but after sistering and bridging my joists, I no longer needed the jacks.

Jsfox,

You did not mention whether your residence has a crawl space, or a basement below the first-floor? If there is easy access to the underneath of your flooring, or you are willing and have an amble access to the crawl space you make wish to consider Simpson connectors, and anchors, are they are the best in the industry regarding retrofit seismic and be used in your situation to further stabilize your floor to wall, and sill plate situation.

My mother resides in Tennessee, and purchased a fairly new residence that has two-thirds height basement, and the first-floor is connected to the garage with concrete floor and adjoining concrete plinth where steps lead to the garage to house entry. Atop that plinth is her first-generation Whirlpool Duet washer and dryer so any vibration is transferred to the concrete. When I inspected her residence, I was surprised at how relaxed the building codes are where she resides versus where I live in Southern California. The house portion that is not over the concrete portion can be shaken with a little effort. No matter what the sub-flooring, and yours being 1 1/2 thick is good by all standards the weak point(s) for transmission is appearing elsewhere in your construction. By no means should you be exhibiting cracks in your walls and ceiling surfaces brought upon by the washer as there is a definitively issue(s) at hand. You need to find the weak connection points and either reinforce them or seek another washer solution. Complete structure inspection will yield whether you are undergoing any structural damage, but the cosmetic damage alone should not be happening.

You might wish to checkout Simpson as they are industry renown for their products and fairly priced: Simpson

deke,

I would appreciate it if you could post some kind of reinforcement schema or just a picture showing how this reinforcement should be done.

flykite,

I do not mean to step-in for deke, and I am sure that they will answer, however, here is some information to get you going: Sistering Floor Joists

fahrenheit_451,

Thank you, very good article.

Hi Flying Kite,

Sorry for not getting back sooner.

Try this. Can you jump up and down near your washer and make the floor bounce? If so, you need to eliminate that bounce - that is almost certainly where your vibrations are being picked up. Does the bounce mean your house is structurally unsound? Not at all. Old or new, many houses are bouncy. My house is 100 years old and was very bouncy, but those old fir 2x10 joists are not going anywhere! :-)

Alas, I don't have too many links - my advice came from a friend who is a contractor and he did the work with me. However, here is my best shot. Your floor joists can be reinforced in a few ways. Bridging refers to supports that run perpendicular to the joists while sistering are supports that run parallel to the joists. People seem to argue which is more effective, but if you bridge, then decide to sister, you have to redo your bridging. Sistering is essentially attaching (with glue and lots of nails) a piece of wood to the joist. A sister can be as long as the joist, or just cover the middle span of the existing joist if you have issues with plumbing or other stuff in the way. Some people say you need to use massive 2x10s while others say plywood is easier and just as strong (I used plywood and it really worked). There are others who talk about steel strips and it gets complex. However, to do it right, you need to jack up the existing joist before attaching the sister - that way the flex you are trying to eliminate is locked in when you attach the sister. Does that make sense? It is a bit above the DIY level when it comes to the engineering part of it, so consult someone who really knows their stuff.

To top it off, my Miele dealer said not to bother with all this if you have a dumpy basement (non finished). His fix was the floor jack idea where two jacks in the basement hold up a single 2 x 10 perpendicular to the joists just under the front of the washer (span 6 to 8 feet or whatever works). Let me tell you - it really worked. The bounce and vibrations went down instantly and dramatically. You can get these jacks at Lowes for about 20-$30 each I think. However, I could not live with the placement of these things in the middle of our basement so I had to do all that other work. My advice is try the jacks just to see if you can eliminate the vibrations. If you can live with them, cool. If not, you have no vibration while you work on getting all the other work done.

Again, I don't want you to lose heart here. It is a hassle, but like I said there are a number of reasons we have all had laundry in the basement for years and years. Old or new, houses weren't designed for heavy equipment that spins! True, some machines vibrate less or have less mass and it would be nice if they all thought more about non-basement installs. I love my Miele (1215 and 1415), but let me tell you, when I first had to deal with vibrations I was bummed out and though I made a horrible mistake. Now I am a happy happy person (with laundry any way). You can get through this! :-) Try the jacks first then find a contractor you can trust and you can lick this thing! Oh, don't jack up too much - you can go nuts and ruin your houses if you jack it up too high!!! Now I am scaring you off. Jack up just a tad, see what happens with the vibration and redo as needed. Getting to the point where you lift the house off the foundation is quite extreme! :-)

Thanks,

Deke

P.S. Also, you need to try some trial and error in leveling the machine. I discovered that level and balance are not the same and balance can do a lot for vibration too. Over about 20 cycles I made minute adjustments to the leveling feet. Get the machine as close to level as you can. While the machine is spinning feel the feet. If one is vibrating more than the other raise it or lower it just a tad and run it again. Repeat (and repeat and repeat) until the vibrations are as reduced as much as possible. This is not a replacement for a sturdier floor, but it is essential. Once done, you won't have to do it again ever (probably).

Also, ask a carpenter or a contractor if your sub floor and floor are well attached. This might be an issue too.

You know, as for some machines not vibrating, that may or may not be true, but is really comes down to the characteristics of our houses. Just because someone has a Duet or Asko upstairs that doesn't vibrate means it would not vibrate in your house.

I can't help but find the Front Loader / Second Floor Vibration thing thing a little mystifying at times, because people seem to go to such lengths to install Front Loaders on second floors.

Front loaders are wonderful inventions, but like all good things, they have a few down sides, vibration being one of them. The simple truth is that if you are going to install a front loader on an upper floor in your home, there is a significant chance that vibration will be a problem for you. It's not a certain thing, so you can't point to a friend or a neighbour and conclude that since they don't have problems, you won't have problems, because it's just as likely that you'll have problems even when they don't.

If someone wants to put a washer on an upper floor, and they are rightly concerned about vibration, then they should consider a hanging suspension style top loader instead of a front loader. Some good examples that work well on upper floors are the Cabrio, the Oasis, the Bravos, all Fisher & Paykel washers, and the GE Harmony. There are others, but these washers are all HE Energy Star rated, so they are good substitutes for front loaders.

Deke,

Thank you very much! I think jacks should work in my case, I don't have a basement, just a crawling space, so bridge with two jacks seems to be good idea.

Hi Flyingkite,

Any time! We have to stick together, Miele brothers and sisters! :-)

You know, even with all my back breaking work, if the machine has an out of balance load and is spinning at full speed, I still feel some vibration. Sooooo, after thinking about this and your problem too, I ordered two of these vibration pads (link below).

I am finding various messages where people just rave about these things. Maybe you should try? When I get mine in I will let you know if they make a difference, but alas, I can't take out all of my joist reinforcement to see if they alone would have done the job! Apparently the machine can be vibrating, but it will prevent that vibration from being passed to the floor/house.

Good luck and let us know what happens with your vibrations!

http://www.keshakeaway.com/servlet/the-Washer-%26-Dryer-Pads/Categories

I've put those pads (available at the local Best Buy) under a W4840. Put them in when the machine was installed so have no comparison without them. Given the talk about the vibration issues with the W4840 just figured it was good preventative medicine.

On max and high spins it still creates vibrations that are felt on the first level. Some light fixtures rattle a bit and you can feel the vibration when touching some walls. In any case, it doesn't last long and is lesser vibration than our old Asko. The LG folks have their fancy Wifi remote to keep track of the cycle progress. Miele owners have a far simplier indicator - you can hear and feel it.

As a point of comparison, when we had the HE5t-Steam in the same place (without the pads) you never felt or heard the high speed spin. Give one point to Whirlpool on this characteristic.

This is my first posting here after a couple of months of reading. Thanks to all the posters about their experiences and recommendations.

After all of the reading and weeks of going to look at appliances, I decided on a pair of Mieles-the 4840 washer and 9800 dryer.

Our house was built in 1890 and I was concerned about the vibration issues. I followed the advise posted here and in the installation manual. The laundry room is on the corner of the house, I put 1-1/8" plywood down under the machines, screwed to the floor joists and put the Kellet vibration pads under the machine. Very happy to report that when the 4840 is in the spin cycle I can hear the machine but not feel any vibration! To me the noise is 1/4 of what I heard from my old TL machine (GE)

Kellet www.kellettent.com has specially cut pads for the Miele Machines when not installed with the pedestal-they are double the normal width to fit across the washer and dryer feet because the adjustable feet on the machines are at the edge of the bases. Call them-very helpful!

The machines have been installed for 2 monthe-using Persil and extremely happy...so far.

Thanks again for everyones insight, I think that these machine are built extremely well.