It boggles my mind that people think 10 years is a long time. After installation, you pay each month (including financing) about what you were already paying anyway (probably less). You do it for 10 years, (especially with all the new government incentives, rebates, and low-interest financing now available) and after 10 years you're paying a ridiculously paltry amount for heat. Of course it makes sense. Think of the payback over 20 years once that loan is paid off! Even if you only end up paying even 1/2 of the normal cost over that period (including the cost of your system and electric), you're still saving substantially. I know not everyone lives in a home for that long, but seeing low energy bills does increase home values. I've seen homes sold almost immediately with their main advertising point being their geothermal system even in our horrible present climate while others still linger on the market. Not only that, but why not decrease your monthly bills slightly (before the loan is paid off)? Slightly lower bills, a higher sales price which will pay off the rest of that loan - still makes sense. We had someone come out to our house and they specifically calculated everything from current estimated heating costs, heating/cooling with geo, then savings/payback period. This was a full service option, including thermostats, etc. Finding that should not be difficult. One argument I saw above made no sense. If it really is worth insulating your home to use a normal system, it is a no-brainer to insulate your home using geo. Whether you decide to use geo or not, you can't say, "Well, normal is better, because we insulated, too." That makes no sense. Insulate either way. Then compare. The financial analysis does not make much sense, either. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could just stop paying the oil company, live without heat, and invest that money! Realistically, while you could want to put away the whole $25,000, you really are still using it for heat either way over those 14 years as projected. Geo, with the loan, electric, etc, will cost about the same each month as heat before the loan is paid off, so you can't just pretend that money could be invested elsewhere. Use it upfront with geo, use it over several years with oil, it makes no difference. That money is being spent on heat. Should it be spent on something worthwhile, or just, at the end of 10 years, have you still spending the same amount on more heat with oil? Geo will typically initially cost you a little less (including the loan and electricity) per month than you would be paying otherwise, then suddenly drop dramatically to only the cost of using the system as soon as that loan is paid off. That's money you would have spent anyway each month with your normal system (even though some of it went to financing, it is still less that what you would have paid for oil). Then suddenly, once the loan is gone, you actually DO have perhaps $1,000 a year in money saved that you can invest if you wish over 10 years. If, with financing costs, it does cost more per month than your normal heating system, that's one thing; but if not, the argument that it is wasting money is not valid. You're spending it anyway. Might as well spend it on something that will, in the future, save you tons of money. (Not just a little, a lot.)

I don't know how deep your pockets are or how 'Green' you'd like to be but there is another option you may not have considered about yet. You can keep you hydronic system and with some modification to it have it coupled to a geothermal heat pump. The modifications would allow you to use the geothermal heat pump to heat your home, preheat your domestic hot water and to have central air-conditioning without ever having to install ducts or removing your existing rads. Since we're considering a small area, the cost of geothermal will not be as high as it would be for a much larger system. That coupled with possible tax breaks could make it a viable project. Operational costs could be as much as 70% less or greater than fossil fuels or even electricity. Those that I know who have done this are very satisfied, especially with the central A/C. It's virtually maintenance free with no ducts and no chimney or chimney liners. But the pain is up front as this is the most expensive option. Look at the cost differential between geothermal hydronic and conventional technologies and the tax incentives. SR

Chisue, I'd say 4K is probably not a bad bid. It is more expensive to retrofit than to install originally and it isn't quite as simple as just running some pipe under your existing floor. I don't see that the value of a 5K home in your neighborhood has much of impact on the conversation. From experience, the cost difference in many home retrofits and repairs in a high value RE value area, in the range you mention, and another in a low cost area, is not that much except when transportation costs of materials is at issue. In fact some services and inputs are more expensive in our lower home value area than in our higher value area, simply because more local trades that do higher end type installs are available and competing for work. From our experience we have to often hire someone from the nearby city --45 miles away -- to do the work and that does come at an up charge, understandably. There is also the fact that smaller jobs also cost proportionately more than larger jobs anywhere. It might help if you don't put down the trades as simpletons. If don't like the bid or can't afford that price, why don't you just go hire someone off the streets to install the tubing, direct the job yourself and just ask a master plumber to make a call to hook it up. LOL. Be sure to pull the correct building permit if ine is required -- it often is for additions to mechanical and plumbing systems.

Since you have chosen warmboard over gypcrete, what was your reasoning behind it besides responsiveness? I am sorry for the confusion. I didn't build a house with Warmboard, I had it in a house where original owner had installed it. It wasn't a house I built. I used it in the sense that I heated the house with it. I looked at the Gypcrete system and somehow feels uneasy about it. Doing a concrete pour over first and second floor does not sound structurally sound to me. Gypcrete has positives and negatives but shouldn't be overlooked because of structurally sound. I think a competent and knowledgeable designer is much more important than which type of system you use. So if you don't have a lot of experienced local people, you have to find experienced people who can help design at a distance. I would start with Radiant Engineering (talk to many companies though). A long somewhat unbiased discussion of radiant: First, it should be noted that radiant heat isn't an efficiency discussion. As people have pointed out many times hydronic radiant systems rarely have a positive payback. They are simply too expensive to install and they never payback if you are installing central air. However, every decision in your house isn't about payback. There are many decisions, such as paint color, cabinet color, cabinet design, many fixtures, etc., that are about your enjoyment of your home. No one has a pool installed because they want it to add value to their house. Radiant fits soundly into that category. Next: A discussion of trade-offs between the different systems. It is important to note that ALL radiant floor systems will provide a comfortable environment to a home that other heating methods struggle to achieve. There are basically five considerations in radiant heat (1) installation costs, (2) operating costs, (3) responsiveness (4) allowable customization and (5) noise (as hot water passes through cold aluminum plates it makes noise). If we look at the different systems we can typically see how they handle each of these things. Warmboard is (1) very expensive to install, (2) it has a low operating cost as it is a warm water system rather than a hot water system, (3) incredibly responsive for radiant heat (able to heat a structure in hours rather than days), (4) low customization and (5) low noise. Underfloor transfer plate systems are (1) moderately expensive to install, (2) low operating costs as they are also warm rather than hot water systems, (3) are somewhat responsive (4) highly customizable and (5) have more expansion noise. Gypcrete overpour is (1) moderately expensive (still cheaper than the two above), (2) have low costs as,they too are warm water systems, (3) not responsive at all, (4) are highly customizable and (5) eliminate almost all noise. Staple up systems are (1) pretty cheap (2) high operating costs as they are a hot water system, (3) not responsive at all, (4) limited customization (they are more limited by physics than design), and (5) are pretty noisy. So looking at Warmboard vs. similar systems - the only real concern from using any aluminum covered plywood system is the noise. Warmboard eliminates expansion noise because of the "special" glue they use to adhere the aluminum to the wood. I can't really tell you how special their glue is, I feel confident they will say super special and their competition will disagree. Warmboard type systems vs. underfloor transfer plate systems - Warmboard is quieter but the loops are not really customizable. Loops are 8" apart with Warmboard, so you can choose not to put warmboard in places but you can't get the loops closer together. With transfer plate systems you can customize the heat of a room by simply moving the loops closer together. This means that you can make the floor right outside the shower warmer than the floor beside the toilet (not many people spend a lot of time standing beside their toilet), but there is more expansion noise. Warmboard is a bit more responsive than transfer plates. Warmboard vs, gypcrete overpour - Gypcrete overpour gives you almost unlimited customization without the noise associated with aluminum transfer plate systems. However, it is not at all responsive. Staple up systems - They are more expensive to operate than any of the above systems but are cheaper to install and easier to maintain. You are not likely to nail through a staple up system with a nice thick transfer plate. Also easier to remodel with staple up systems. TL:DR In the end, if I was ranking a radiant system today - I would probably rank it - underfloor transfer plates > gypcrete > Warmboard. But it is a three way photo finish so it wouldn't take a lot to change the order. Also noisy houses don't bother me at all.