New Heating System (hydronic vs. hot air)

13 years ago

We really want to replace our old oil fired boiler that is used to run the radiant (baseboard) heating in our 1,000sq ft. ranch, in PA. It was built in 1954 and the furnace could quite possibly be the original. WeÃ¯Â¿Â½ve considered a few options but itÃ¯Â¿Â½s quite overwhelming and the couple contractors we spoke to were not much help. Side-note: we already moved our boiler tank hot water heater to an electric as there were many problems with it so we arenÃ¯Â¿Â½t sure if we want to combine this system again or use it as we have it now (separate). A, just replace it with a newer natural gas boiler. B, replace with a tankless boiler that is suitable for hydronic heating. C, put a gas forced air furnace in (and A/C) at a later date.

If any of you experts out there can comment or answer any of my questions, it would be such a huge help! Thanks!!!!!!

A) Seems to be quite expensive from what I can find pricing on. Most are 80% and are up over $2500. CanÃ¯Â¿Â½t expand to include a/c.

B) Smaller footprint. More efficient for same pricing.

C) Assuming a lot more work. Can run duct work ourselves, really just need person to hook up electric and gas to unit. Seem to run about $1k and some even under for the unit itself.

1. How much work to move from oil boiler to a or b? Is it as "easy" as swapping in the new for the old or will there need to be piping changes in the house?

2. What types of systems can be used with B? IÃ¯Â¿Â½ve seen some like Noritz NH made specifically for it but some of their other models say that "recirculation compatable"? Same thing? One guy told us that those systems wonÃ¯Â¿Â½t last as long?

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Comments (4)

juliekcmo
13 years ago
If you don't need AC, then A

It is simple

Simple to do, to fix, and they last a long time.

If you want AC then C
fsq4cw
13 years ago
I don't know how deep your pockets are or how 'Green' you'd like to be but there is another option you may not have considered about yet.

You can keep you hydronic system and with some modification to it have it coupled to a geothermal heat pump. The modifications would allow you to use the geothermal heat pump to heat your home, preheat your domestic hot water and to have central air-conditioning without ever having to install ducts or removing your existing rads.

Since we're considering a small area, the cost of geothermal will not be as high as it would be for a much larger system. That coupled with possible tax breaks could make it a viable project. Operational costs could be as much as 70% less or greater than fossil fuels or even electricity.

Those that I know who have done this are very satisfied, especially with the central A/C. It's virtually maintenance free with no ducts and no chimney or chimney liners.

But the pain is up front as this is the most expensive option. Look at the cost differential between geothermal hydronic and conventional technologies and the tax incentives.

SR
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Of course the least expensive to operate is the proper sized unit. Make sure they do a heat loss. Do not let them size off the old furnace. This is improper sizing. You have many more options with a boiler. It will give you more hot water than you have now but, that would mean buying an indirect water heater to add to the boiler which could be done later when your fails. The operation cost for heat would be about the same but when the hot water tank is added it would be a lot less expensive than your present water heater. DO NOT USE AN INTERNAL COIL IN THE BOILER! Too expensive. See link. http://www.comfort-calc.net/Domestic_Hot_Water%20_Coil.html
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I know you said youÂre not interested in resurrecting your geothermal system Â but a lot has changed in 28 years! If you still have access to a suitable supply of ground water you could have the most efficient source of heating and cooling. With todayÂs energy costs why would you want to pay 4 times as much for energy and lock yourself into a source of energy that fluctuates daily? A hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico or an attack on a refinery in Saudi Arabia, a fire in refinery in Texas or a terrorist attack on a supertanker in the Malaccan Straights or the Straight of Hormuz and your home heating cost goes through the roof! At LEAST look into replacing your water source heat pump before making any final decisions. IMO SR
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You really do need to have a proper heat loss calculation (CSA F280 standard for Canada) performed on you house to see what capacity boiler you really need, which should neither be undersized nor oversized and should be the highest efficiency possible (over 90% efficient). What size and efficiency boiler are you replacing? Do you want an all-in-one integrated unit, radiant heat and full capacity instantaneous domestic tankless hot water? What type radiators do you presently have, large cast iron, baseboard cast iron, aluminum plate with copper tube? What water temperature water is required? How do you air-condition? I would suggest finding an experienced, accredited hydronic installer in your area. SR Here is a link that might be useful: Beautiful Heat (Canada)
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You've probably never been in a home with properly sized ductwork. Don't feel bad, it's estimated that as much as 3/4 of the heating and cooling systems in the US are oversized. 2 stage and modulating furnaces are better, but I've lived in a home with both, and both can be very comfortable and the single stage equipment doesn't make it feel more dry that I can tell. BUt you are correct, multistage cna reduce the sense of dryness you might get with a less than ideal system. THe RH of hot air is lower than cooler air, but cool air can make things feel drafty. That's why radiant heat is popular. You essentially have very, very low air velocities and much of the heat energy is indirect infrared heat which make you feel warmer, similar to direct sunlight. Keep in mind too, that unless you have an outdoor rest control for hte boiler or to sped up or slow the circulator, most hydronic air handlers are single stage for heating. So the heat is no different than a furnace. Worse, as you reduce BTU's to the coil, the airflow speed is usually ocnstant, so air temps get cooler. My point being, that a properly designed and installed furnace won;t make it feel dry even if single stage. But yes, oversized furnaces and those with restricted airflow can. Vairble capacity will always make the system more comfortable, but it will cost more. Radiant heat overall is superior, but the installed cost is much, much higher. That's why it fell out of favor. Same reason drywall took over the market and plaster disapeared. ITs' primarily a matter of cost. It's also why stone and brick homes aren't built anymore and concrete homes are the minority.
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david_cary
13 years ago
B is not an option. Recirc capable means it is capable of handling a recirculating water system. The instant hot water heaters are not going to last in a hydronic environment - they are just not made for that much use.

I'm not sure how you could do C for that kind of price. The ductwork and registers add up in price. I spent close to $1000 on a basement ductwork project (about 1300 sq ft).

Do you have NG already in your house?
ionized_gw
13 years ago
How many rooms do you have. How many would you want to directly cool? The reason I ask is that you could consider a couple of heat pump mini splits. Depending on where you are in PA, you don't need much cooling.

You would keep the hydronic heat. You could use the heat pump function when it is not too cool if the relative energy prices say it is an advantage.

New Heating System (hydronic vs. hot air)

Comments (4)

juliekcmo

fsq4cw

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ionized_gw

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