My sleep patterns have changed in that I am a light sleeper now. Sometimes I even get up around 3:00 AM and watch the news. Oy.

That said, Oakley, I am getting worried about you. How long has it been since you had a physical?

Menopause in 2002/2003 really messed up my sleep patterns, I can't sleep more than 6/7 hours in a row now. I sometimes take tylenol pm so I can sleep a bit more.

Ohhhhhh yeah! Now that I'm full into "hot flash mode", I never get a full night's sleep, uninterrupted. I wake numerous times during the night to throw off the covers, lie there and sweat for awhile, then start freezing and pile the covers back on, and lie there until I finally drift off again. I hate it. I remember when I was in my 20s, I could function on just a few hours of sleep. Of course, it wasn't functioning at my very best, but I was still able to do it, and do it I did with regularity. I'd be a complete zombie if I were to do that now. I need as much sleep as I can manage to get. I usually go to bed between 9:30 and 10:00, read or watch tv until I doze off, then I start the nightly ritual of flashing, tossing and turning. I somehow manage to awaken before the alarm sounds at 7:15 most mornings. On the weekends I always try to sleep in, but I'm usually compelled to get up fairly early, although I'll sit and drink copious amounts of coffee until that caffeine buzz finally kicks in.

Oh man, auntjen--I'm sitting here hoping my caffeine kicks in so I can have some semblance of energy to get through the day, but my night was *exactly* as you describe it. I want to cry. I've been taking some herbs but I'm going to make an appointment with a local women's center (both conventional and alternative are there) to deal with this. I can't take this. I'll go crazy and have *no* immune system. And like you, I remember sleeping 4 hours a night for about 6 years in my 20s. Never affected me (although I do wonder sometimes if I might have accomplished *more* if I'd slept more, vs. thinking that if you stay awake you accomplish more...)

Another one here -- always have been a light sleeper -- complete with vivid dreams, NTs and nightmares at times ....

But now -- I have exactly the same kind of night as Jen ...... and yes! years ago I WAS a morning person .....

Jan

Yes! Ditto to what Aunt Jen said, although I did start on bioidentical hormones about 6 weeks ago and thankfully the night time "kick em off, pull em up" routine has almost gone away.

Now I just wake up for ???? I feel like that lady in the commercial with the rooster at the end of her bed. "Tired of morning coming in the middle of the night?" yep, that's me! And yes I do need LOTS of sleep these days, but sure don't feel like I get it!

Since I started on the (nasty and scary) HRT, my night sweats have reduced to just a few light ones a night. No more shivering teeth or changing clothes 4 times a night. I've only been taking them since Tuesday and it's the lowest dose possible.

I have noticed I have more energy and motivation. I am still experiencing mild hot flashes but I can *really* tell a big difference in the quality of my life already. I think I will see a larger benefit a couple weeks into it. I must say, those little pills feel like magic pills. I can understand why women who take them, love them so much.

That said, HRT still scares me and I'm critically checking into other options. While bioidenticals have their audience, the fact is there has been no studies. Plus it is silly to think your hormones stay the same all the time.

Hormones fluctuate hour to hour. So any specialty compound made up is based on one moment in the day so I'm not sure how much better they are. I'm still investigating. I have made a one month commitment to the pills I am on. At the end of my 28 day supply, I hope to know enough to make a more informed decision.

Every medication has risk. If I chose to stay on HRT, I will become diligent with my check ups. If I chose bioidenticals, I will still remain as diligent. We don't know what they will be saying about bioidenticals in 5-10 years. They haven't even been studied for effectiveness or safety.

For me, personally, I got to the point where menopausal symptoms was seriously affecting the quality of my life. Just a few days into therapy, I can't believe the difference.

Imsoconfused, I'm growing increasingly interested in bioidentical hormone therapy. I believe it's Olliesmom who has also gone that route. I've got a couple of books I need to read on the subject (will confess to being entirely too engrossed in fiction and just not feeling serious-minded lately), but I was wondering if you could tell me exactly what kind of bioidentical treatment you're receiving. Are you doing a patch, or is it a cream, pills, or something else? I'd be most interested to hear more, especially since you say it's helped with the "power surges."

I just wrote a long reply and it ate it up! Golddust, I get a checkup every month since I came down with diabetes in January. But my diabetes is under control now since I lost a lot of weight. Thanks to Metformin! lol

I'm wondering if I don't have any hormones? I had the total hysterectomy in 2004 and never took any hormones. I think I'll have my doctor do a blood test and check for the hormone levels outside my other tests and see what the deal is.

I'm intrigued that your HRT gives you energy and motivation. That is precisely what I'm lacking!

Anyone here tried black cohosh? I'm thinking of buying some today.

AuntJen . . . When you wrote "nightly ritual of flashing, tossing and turning..." I had to chuckle. Did you write that tongue-in-cheek?

Some nights I, too, have a ritual of flashing (when my nightgown [okay, old maxi dresses] rucks up).

Seriously, my sleep patterns have changed. Between menopause and fibro some nights I get VERY little sleep. Earlier this week, I didn't get to sleep until 5:30 am. During those nights I try to sleep for an hour, get up to do something, log onto Gardenweb, or read for an hour or so, and repeat until I get to sleep. A VERY few nights I have a good sleep with REM. Most nights I wake up flashing, kicking off covers, becoming cold, pull up cover, sleep for a while (probably just dozing), repeat.

I've been unemployed for a year. I'm beginning to think I'm probably retired. LOL My husband seriously wonders if I have the energy and stamina to hold a full-time position!!

I tend to wake up almost every night at exactly 4:15 AM. Then I cannot fall back asleep because I'm not super tired anymore, but definitely don't want to get out of bed, so I tend to lay there and then I start thinking about things. I'll dose off right before 6 AM and then wakeup an hour later feeling like crap because I think I go into a deep sleep for just that hour and I feel drugged when I wake up.

I've started taking Tylenol PM sometimes too at night because I occasionally I can't fall asleep either, but then it wears of and I'm awake at 4:15!

Oakley - you need to listen to Golddust. A monthly check-up for diabetes is not a physical. Have you discussed these questions you've asked here with your doctor? Hormones, no energy, sleep problems - you REALLY need to have a good talk with your doctor and then a full and complete physical. I mentioned exercise before (on the energy question) and you didn't answer. Exercise is VERY important in how we feel, how we sleep and can have a bearing on your energy level. I am one who has never needed alot of sleep, 6-7 hours is good for me. I'm still pretty much a morning person, and I'm never in bed before 10:00 pm. I also don't drink coffee, and very little caffeine otherwise. I'm not sure how much caffeine you are drinking but that can have a rebound effect. Maybe you need to cut back a little. Of course things change as we age, that's only normal, but it seems like you have an awful lot of big changes going on.

Carol - I sometimes will wake at 4:00. I hate that because I get up usually around 5:15 or so. Weird. I'm one that really cannot nap, if I do, I will be awake in the wee morning hours.

tina

Ah for the good old days of interrupted restful sleep! Those were the days! I started waking half hour or so for a couple of weeks- not counting hot flashes. I went to my GYN and she gave me a script for AmbienCR to take for a full week to "reset my clock" which worked for me. That was a year ago. I still wake with hot flashes at night but fall back asleep fairly fast and sleep well in between (unless having a bad arthritis night.) I don't take anything now- I tried black cohosh and it didnt make a difference nor did soy. I avoid alcohol now since it aggravates the hot flashes sleep in a very cool room all of those types of things.
I am not a candidate for HRT(BC) or I would definitely take it- my Mom took it for years with no ill effects and looked and acted about 10 years younger than she was.

Tina, I get plenty of sleep, so caffeine isn't the problem. And yes, I get a lot of exercise. I do a lot of gardening to where sweat drips off my nose. lol. And since we added on, the walking I do! It's THIRTY steps to the back door, and thirty back to the sofa. lol

I think all the extra walking from the new addition has helped me lose weight. I've lost 40 pounds since January due to gardening and the extra walking just inside the house.

But I've never had my hormone level checked since my surgery, so maybe I need to do that.

CooperBailey, I have an appointment with a PA at my GYN's in a week and a half. I'm going to research Ambien CR and possible ask for that.

Thanks for the tip!!!

You may be surprised at how little those steps actually add up to. Try a pedometer. Your doctor will probably tell you that although gardening is good, you need daily (5 times a week) consistent exercise (30 minutes at least) of an exercise that raises your heart rate. It really is amazing how it boosts energy and helps you sleep. Ten hours sleep sounds like too much sleep. Maybe you aren't getting good, restful sleep?

Hormones could be a problem, I'm surprised your doctor doesn't check them.

My point about caffeine is that sometimes too much caffeine works against you instead of for you. It's possible it could be making you feel sluggish rather than giving you energy, depending on how much you drink.

tina

Well, I've just started reading two books in tandem - Dr. Lee's What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause: The Breakthrough Book on Natural Hormone Balance and Suzanne Somers' Ageless, the latter being a book that I've been hesitant to read simply because it's written by Chrissie from "Three's Company", for crying out loud -- but my DH read it, and it's one of the things that motivated him to have his hormones tested and seek help from an endocrinologist. He's been encouraging me to read it as well; I've just finished the first chapter, and what she says makes sense to me. She insists that this "flashing" and tossing and turning we're all doing is not normal, and we shouldn't accept it as "well, you're getting older - this is what happens." I'm intrigued enough to keep reading now. I do know that Suzanne Somers is a huge proponent of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy.

Fly, I have been taking soy/black cohosh (extra strength) for over a year. For me, it was a joke. Like taking a candy pill for strep throat.

Face it. As we age, cancer is a higher risk for us all. Early detection is the key to survival. I am weighing my odds and trying to weigh out the risks verses the quality of life I want to have. (The pills have gotten to me already. LOL!)

Oakley, you need a broad spectrum physical. Please tell me you will make an appointment on Monday?

Carole - that is exactly what happens to me. I swear, I feel better if I just wake up with the roosters instead of going back to sleep for another hour. To complicate matters, sometimes at 4am I do go right back to sleep. Should I get up? Should I wait to see if I fall back asleep? Ugh.

I never had any sleeping trouble until my allergies got better and I stopped taking my nightly Zyrtec. I guess I was passed out instead of sleeping!

Dee

Aunt Jen, Hope you come back here and see this reply to you! This might get a little long, but since every woman is different, I feel like you need to know MY circumstances.

I always swore I would never take hormones! I was just going to tough it out. I am 47 and "think" I have been in perimenopause for almost 10 years. I was having super heavy bleeding and it had gotten to the point where I couldn't leave the house for a couple of days, and then it was 3 weeks on and one week off! ugh! My gyn had offered in the past for me to take birth control pills to help with the bleeding. Well I also had a tubal ligation 20 years ago and it just didn't settle right with me to take birth control pills. So I just kept "dealing" with it. Then last year it got bad enough that I was going to have a hysterectomy. I was all prepared, and my mother n law was diagnosed wtih Brain Cancer. My DH was the only caretaker living close by, so I knew I couldn't put him through caring for him dying mom and me trying to recuperate from a hysterectomy and still go to work everyday. So, my gyn and I decided I should try an endometrial ablation. It has been a miracle! I have not had one period in a year's time! woohoo! So I do still have my ovaries.

Around Christmas last year, I started having strong heart palpitations in the middle of the night when I would get up to go potty. I couldn't believe that walking like 10 steps to and from the bathroom would cause such a thing, and I was convinced I was fixing to have a heart attack or something major! I went to a cardiologist, and convinced him to do a stres test on me, also a chemical one, and everything showed up fine. My blood pressure was up a little, so he put me on a beta blocker, but it's a low dosage.

Then later in the spring, I started feeling sort of dizzy, light headed, like I might pass out...even had that feeling driving to church one morning...that really scared me! I just felt very strange and very wierd. And then at the same time, the hot flashes at night started...it felt like 20 times a night I was pushing the covers down, and then 5 minutes later pulling them back up because I was freezing. Not easy to sleep with all that going on!!! So, it got to the point, I was not getting much sleep, and then during the day, the wierd head feeling( i was convinced I had a brain tumor) was keeping me from functioning. I found myself waiting for my hubby to get home from work, and then asking him to drive me to Walmart or to the grocery store, etc...becaue I was too scared to go by myself, for fear of passing out somewhere. It was awful!

Then, I had a breakthrough thanks to ThatHOmesite! There is a menopause message board on here, and I started reading threads there and OMG! There were threads about, wierd head feeling, palpitations, feeling like you are going to pass out...and most of these women were right around my age!!!! I couldn't believe it! So, I printed all those things out, and took them to my gyn at my annual checkup in June. I talked to her about it, and she knew I had never wanted to take hormones, and she was also concerned about be taking them so that they didn't start to build up the lining of my uterus that she had ablated. So she recommended I go to our compounding pharmacy and get a saliva testing kit...it was $170 out of my pocket, but I was so desperate, it was worth every penny! So I spit in a tube, and mailed it off to Oregon. A couple of weeks later, the results came back in and my hormones were WAY out of whack AND my adrenals were exhausted. So to answer your question...=), I am on a progeserone/estrogen cream that I use twice daily right now. This cream is made just for me according to my results. There is also a long questionnaire that you fill out about all your symptoms. I am also on DHEA and adrenal forte, to get my adrenals working the way they should again. I started all this about 6 weeks ago, and the difference it has made in my life has been life changing! I would say I am at least 50% better already, maybe even 75% and I feel so much stronger during the day, I have actually been able to start exercising. Couldn't even do that before! The hot flashes at night have all but gone away...there might be a couple sometime, but they are very mild and I seem to fall back asleep easier than I was. I still wake up during the night now, for what reason I don't know. I am going to try cutting out all caffeine, even though I don't consume much of it anyway. But it came down to quality vs. quantity of life for me, and I wound up choosing quality. I have seen my 91 year old mother, be miserable, with not much quality of life, and I just decided I would rather enjoy my life now, instead of just trying to go for quantity of years and be miserable later. I am still trying to take care of myself, in fact, I feel like doing that now where as before the hormones, I really didn't care! So I hope this somewhat helps you. Sorry it took so long to explain, just wanted you to know my own situation. You have to decide what's best for you!

Tina, I can tell you right now I won't do any exercise other than what I'm doing. I didn't even like it when I was young. lol.

Gold, I'll definitely ask for a full workup in two weeks when I go in.

I need to get back on my Vitamin B 12, it's for energy but I'm such a slacker I just forget to take it.

Imsoconfused, how is your bleeding now? Heart palpatations is a huge sign of anemia. I'm sure your doctor tested you for that earlier.

Carol, if you are getting up at 4:15, get out of bed; even if you get on the puter and come to GW. There have been times of the year when that happens to me, I just get up. I know trying to go back to sleep when I'm getting up at 5 or 6 is worthless because I'm more tired then if I got up.

I'm wondering if I don't have any hormones? I had the total hysterectomy in 2004 and never took any hormones. I think I'll have my doctor do a blood test and check for the hormone levels outside my other tests and see what the deal is.

Are you sure they didn't leave your ovaries? If they took them as well, then yes, you probably have no hormones.

Ambien - watch this pill. I prefer Lunesta, can't take Ambien. There is a lot of info online; many posts by people that have side effects. My neighbor ended up sleepwalking. One night ended up in a closet, another I think she fell. I used to feel so hung over with it. Ambien is the pill people sleep drive. I'm surprised it hasn't been taken off the market.

imsoconfused - that's what happened with me. Started with heart palpitations, have the rest of what you wrote as well. The link below is Dr Phil's wife Robin's book. What you're saying about the compounding pharmacy, saliva kit, it was all on that show. There should be a link to you tube for anyone wanting to watch.

Roselvr, I have Robin's book. I have read it and others too. I tried to do my research, and yeah I was hesitant about taking or using anything, but I decided my life RIGHT NOW, this very minute is worth more to me than 20 years down the road. I want to be a functioning human being contributing to life now instead of a recluse waiting for it all to pass. I am on the road to getting there! yay!

Oakley, I have no more bleeding since I had an endometrial ablation last year. I was anemic, in a big way, but not anymore since I have stopped the bleeding. I just had a followup with my cardiologist who is Indian, and he confirmed that he thought it was hormones too. He said his wife was going through the same thing. That surprised me in a way because I figured their diet is way healthier than mine and thus they wouldn't have these problems. Anyway, I told him to give me her number so we can start a support group! lol

I also had a followup with my gyn yesterday, and we are going to leave my dosage as is for a little while longer. I go back in October and may have the saliva test done again then. It's expensive, yes, but as of now, it is probably the best money I have ever spent on myself! I also got a shot of testosterone yesterday to see if it will help me get a little more interested and to feel more in sex. It has started to take a REALLY long time....if ever to reach the ultimate. She said if it feels like it helps, we could possibly add a litte T to my creamms. We'll see....just taking it one day at a time right now.

Imsoconfused - thank you so much for posting your experience. If and when I start to have problems, I am definitely asking about the bioidentical hormones. I have read the creams are the best way to go. I am on the pill for PCOS, and my doc plans to keep me on it (although lowering it) until I go through menopause. Because of that, she thinks I will have few symptoms. I hope so! The ablation is such a better alternative than hysterectomy - if you are a candidate for that. I have heard many success stories on that. Good for you and the others here who have taken YOUR life and YOUR health into your own hands. It sounds like you have a very good doc who is willing to listen and work with you. That is important. Very interesting re: the saliva test, I had not heard of that.

Oakley - you post here and ask advice and people are kind enough to be concerned for you and give that advice. If you choose not to take it, that is your choice of course. There are alot of people who don't really LIKE exercise, but realize it is an important part in becoming and staying healthy. I would be very surprised if your doctor had not mentioned that with your diabetes. Exercise is an integral part for someone managing diabetes. I know this because I am insulin resistant (due to PCOS), but I do not have high blood sugar, and I hope to keep it that way. My doctor has spoken to me of the importance of exercise in managing insulin/blood sugar. You can bet I would rather do what I can in eating, exercising, etc. to take care of myself and hopefully not having to take medication.

Again, your life, your health, your choice.

tina

imsoconfused, how did you like Robins book? I enjoyed the show very much; and am glad I did see it.

I'm pretty sure the GYN suggested ablation when I saw her, after reading about it some, I think I'd rather go that route then Mirena. I do not want to put hormones in my body if I don't have to. The bioidenticals are the way I'd like to go.

btw, link below to the Menopause forum.

not sure if anyone's seen the story My Brief Life as a Woman One man's story with menopause