I've never had a similar experience, thankfully. That is outrageous. She "couldn't" interview him? It sounds more like she "wouldn't". I'm interested to hear from some HR folks here who could offer more insight.

Not sure of the policy here, but in our small town of 1000, there are two private Christian schools, along with our public schools. The Christian schools only go up to the 8th grade, then they all join each other in the 9th grade.

But to me this sounds so wrong because these private schools cost money! Most young families can't afford extra tuition.

Sad.

GM, stick with the "rational" part of your mind. It is so true..."who'd want to work for an organization who is that small-minded?"

Listen, your dh WILL get another job. This place did him a favor not to hire him. Their stance is so "un" Christian it is not even funny.

If they think about the issue at all when hiring, they should look at hiring a non-Christian, or non-practicing Christian (in their view) as an "opportunity" to spread the good news through their actions & behavior & love...(not so much prosletizing though) imo.

Christians include, they don't exclude. They invite, they don't send away. They embrace, instead of reject. Apostle Peter's words, "Come and see..." exemplify the welcoming invitation to others Christians are expected to extend.

Sorry about this disappointment. I, and surely others here, will pray that your DH finds work in a welcoming, friendly, affirming environment...soon.

Stinky, you said it better than I ever could. That's it, exactly! GM, best wishes to your DH in finding a position that's worthy of his abilities.

So very well said, Stinky. I agree with you 100%. And I would still be interested in hearing HR experts weigh in. This stinks of blatant religious discrimination, IMO.

Stinky, once again...

Side note, based on stinky's very appropriate use of 'un-Christian' (although the group in question would, of course, say that their actions were entirely 'Christian'): I'm always saddened by the appropriation of the entire term "Christian" by certain sects of Christianity who think they have the right to claim the whole term for themselves leaving no enfranchisement for other Christian denominations. It's not enough to call themselves "Methodist" or "Baptist" or whatever, like it used to be -- no, they're "Christian" now and everyone else isn't. That's one thing I won't miss about homeschooling.

Why wouldn't she have told him of the school policy right at the point when he said you have no kids in Christian school? I find that strange, altho maybe it was just that she knew the rule but decided to wait and talk to a higher-up to see if the rule could be bended for him.

I know that in the (non-Christian) religious afterschool program I went to, and in my houses of worship, there were certainly laborers who were not of our faith. It didn't seem unusual.

I'm not sure requiring a laborer to be of the same faith makes a place safer or cleaner.

GM I truly hope there is something wonderful waiting around the corner for your DH. That was not an appropriate way to treat a job candidate.

stinky & fly - You are both examples of one reason I love this place - intelligent women who can and do take a stand and express their thoughts in a thoughtful, gracious manner. It pleases me no end to read your responses on this topic.

I don't think this is legal.

In the schools my children went to, as well as my BIL, who does janitorial/maintenance for a large high school, the janitor was considered part of the staff. My BIL often sponsors kids whose parents don't have the money to send them to prom, pay-to-play, and has been mentioned several times during graduation speeches. The school ensured that all the children were taught to respect the janitor (and administrative staff) as equal to the teaching staff, and he knew all their names. I've never seen the janitor as just a laborer. He was, in fact, both my children's favorite person at school.

Perhaps this school also views the janitor as staff, and a person who has frequent interaction with the students, and wishes him/her to reflect the doctrine of the school for which the parents pay.

Just a thought...not saying it's right or wrong. Now, if it's a nighttime janitorial position, where there's no interaction with the students, that's another story.

I'm so sorry for your DH's disappointment. I echo the sentiment that there's something better for him out there.

Dee

I don't think this is legal.

I agree. Though technically they aren't discriminating based on religion - they didn't ask if the applicant was Christian, just where his offspring went to school - I'm sure that the case could be made. I also don't see why where their child attends school is relevant. I would definitley pursue this, because it is just plain wrong.

Here is a link that might be useful: Discrimination based on religion

The Christan schools I have worked for and the ones I know about, provide free tuition for employees. It is not uncommon to have highly skilled employees that way and is a boon for both sides. Several of my co workers were ph.d's working at a low salary but their kids got free schooling through high school and one got to go to the university for free.
I'm really sorry about the situation for you though, but consider that it's not meant to be. It's never good to harbor bitterness and unforgiveness and it's best to put it behind you and move on.

>>>>It's never good to harbor bitterness and unforgiveness and it's best to put it behind you and move on.I do agree with the first part of that statement, but I'm not so sure that it's always truly best to just put something behind you and move on - particularly if that something is discriminatory and illegal in nature. Sometimes, difficult though it may be, the best thing to do is to speak up and out and be the impetus for change in an unfair situation. This thread has made me think about the countless African-Americans, Muslims, homosexuals, women, and many others who were turned away from a job that they were qualified to do because they somehow were deemed to be unfit based upon their own personal identity. Certainly bitterness has no merit, but silently slinking away isn't always the answer either. (Again, I have no idea as to the illegality of this particular situation.)

Just my humble $.02. :-)

And I'm curious - I wonder what the response would have been if you didn't have children? Would your husband then be asked if/where you go to church? I still smell a rat.

I agree with Stinky and Flyleft that this is NOT the type of "Christian" Christ would have us be. Perhaps the principal's hands are tied by a board with rigid policies she has to follow. Legal or not, it wouldn't be a welcoming place to work. Sometimes we say, "When God closes one door, He opens another." Pray this is true for you.

It's so easy to tell other people to pursue something and I have no issue with that at all but sometimes the path of least resistance is what's best for the person involved. Not necessarily the institution or social justice cause but pursing it often has serious repercussions, like it or not.

Racial battles, for instance, were never won easily and I wouldn't casually tell anyone to pursue it from my armchair
although certainly there is something to look into here.

I'm with Jen in the stinky rodent in the room. What IF you didn't have kids? Their policy certainly limits their applicant pool. And I'd think that the principal would be familiar with the students that attend the school, particularly if your SIL works there and they'd read his resume.

It doesn't add up to me. I wish your DH much success in his search and encourage him not to give up. Look at this as a blessing in disguise.

I did a little searching and found a couple of articles.

9. Can I be denied employment by a religious organization on religious grounds?

Under certain circumstances, some religious institutions enjoy exemptions from federal laws covering religious discrimination. If the organization is a "religious corporation, association, educational institution or society," then it is allowed under Title VII to hire only individuals of a particular religion to "perform work connected with the carrying on by such corporation, association, educational institution or society of its activities." For example, a Catholic school or university can require that all of the teachers it hires be Catholic.

While such exemptions may provide a defense to a discrimination claim based upon religion, religious institutions are not permitted to discriminate on grounds other than religion merely because of the institution's religious character. Therefore, a Baptist institution could hire only Baptists, but could not refuse to hire African-Americans or applicants with disabilities.

Some courts have ruled recently that such religious organizations can legally discriminate against employees who do not subscribe or conform to their beliefs. In two cases involving gay employees who were terminated after their employers learned about their sexual orientation, courts upheld the right of both religious employers to terminate those employees because homosexuality was incompatible with the organizations' religious values. Both cases occurred in states without a state law making it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, however. The outcome might have been different in states with these laws. Religious employers have also been allowed to fire pregnant employees for engaging in premarital sex where it was against the beliefs of the religion, but were required to show that all employees, including men or women who were known to engage in premarital sex without it resulting in a pregnancy, were treated similarly.

I found the above here:
http://www.workplacefairness.org/religion#9

I also found this regarding Title VII:

C. Exemptions under Title VII

There are two types of exemptions under Title VII. The first exemption is for religious institutions. This exemption allows any church, school, college, university, or other educational institution to hire and employ individuals of a particular religion if the institution is operated, owned, supported, and controlled by a religious corporation, or if the curriculum is intended to disperse the ideas of a particular religion. 42 U.S.C. � 2000e-2(e) (2). This exemption does not apply, however, to for-profit corporations whose business pertains to religious functions or activities or whose management happens to be Christian and operates the business according to religious guidelines or goals such as Bible bookstores or Christian daycare centers.

The second exemption under Title VII allows employers to discriminate where sex, race, or religion is a "bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise (BFOQ)," 42 U.S.C. � 2000-(e)(I). Courts have narrowly interpreted this statute, and it remains difficult to prove that sex, race, or religion is an integral part of any job description. Thus, if a Bible bookstore, for example, wants to hire only Christians, this would generally not be permitted under Title VII since it is a for-profit company whose business is related to Christian matters but not solely designated for ministerial purposes. In order for the Bible bookstore to pursue their preference to exclusively hire Christian employees, they may be able to pursue a BFOQ exemption that states being a Christian is mandatory part of the job.

An example of a BFOQ exemption based on religious faith is illustrated in the court case Kern v. Dynalectron, 577 F. Supp. 1196 (N.D. Tex. 198), aff�d, 746 F. 2d 810 (5th Cir.). In this case the employer, a helicopter charter company, hired only those who were of the Muslim faith or who agreed to convert to the Muslim faith on the basis that non-Muslims flying into Mecca would be beheaded if caught. The employer�s right to religious discrimination was upheld as a BFOQ.

While exemptions are allowed, the employer must demonstrate a "compelling need" to continue the discriminatory practice. In Vigars v. Valley Christian Center of Dublin , Cal. , 805 F. Supp. 802, 808 (N.D. Cal. 1992), the courts refused to grant exemption to a Christian school that fired a librarian for becoming pregnant out of wedlock.

Typically, a Title VI exemption is provided for churches or ministries, not religious- oriented companies like Christian bookstores. For-profit, religious-related corporations that adhere to Christian principles yet are not solely for the purpose of propagating the faith will also not qualify for BFOQ exemptions unless they can prove that religion is a vital part of the job. However, this is one of the statutes frequently quoted to uphold religious discrimination for religiously affiliated companies.

The source for the above:
http://choosecharity.org/titlevii_information.htm

I did a little searching and found a couple of articles.

9. Can I be denied employment by a religious organization on religious grounds?

Under certain circumstances, some religious institutions enjoy exemptions from federal laws covering religious discrimination. If the organization is a "religious corporation, association, educational institution or society," then it is allowed under Title VII to hire only individuals of a particular religion to "perform work connected with the carrying on by such corporation, association, educational institution or society of its activities." For example, a Catholic school or university can require that all of the teachers it hires be Catholic.

While such exemptions may provide a defense to a discrimination claim based upon religion, religious institutions are not permitted to discriminate on grounds other than religion merely because of the institution's religious character. Therefore, a Baptist institution could hire only Baptists, but could not refuse to hire African-Americans or applicants with disabilities.

Some courts have ruled recently that such religious organizations can legally discriminate against employees who do not subscribe or conform to their beliefs. In two cases involving gay employees who were terminated after their employers learned about their sexual orientation, courts upheld the right of both religious employers to terminate those employees because homosexuality was incompatible with the organizations' religious values. Both cases occurred in states without a state law making it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, however. The outcome might have been different in states with these laws. Religious employers have also been allowed to fire pregnant employees for engaging in premarital sex where it was against the beliefs of the religion, but were required to show that all employees, including men or women who were known to engage in premarital sex without it resulting in a pregnancy, were treated similarly.

I found the above here:
http://www.workplacefairness.org/religion#9

I also found this regarding Title VII:

C. Exemptions under Title VII

There are two types of exemptions under Title VII. The first exemption is for religious institutions. This exemption allows any church, school, college, university, or other educational institution to hire and employ individuals of a particular religion if the institution is operated, owned, supported, and controlled by a religious corporation, or if the curriculum is intended to disperse the ideas of a particular religion. 42 U.S.C. � 2000e-2(e) (2). This exemption does not apply, however, to for-profit corporations whose business pertains to religious functions or activities or whose management happens to be Christian and operates the business according to religious guidelines or goals such as Bible bookstores or Christian daycare centers.

The second exemption under Title VII allows employers to discriminate where sex, race, or religion is a "bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise (BFOQ)," 42 U.S.C. � 2000-(e)(I). Courts have narrowly interpreted this statute, and it remains difficult to prove that sex, race, or religion is an integral part of any job description. Thus, if a Bible bookstore, for example, wants to hire only Christians, this would generally not be permitted under Title VII since it is a for-profit company whose business is related to Christian matters but not solely designated for ministerial purposes. In order for the Bible bookstore to pursue their preference to exclusively hire Christian employees, they may be able to pursue a BFOQ exemption that states being a Christian is mandatory part of the job.

An example of a BFOQ exemption based on religious faith is illustrated in the court case Kern v. Dynalectron, 577 F. Supp. 1196 (N.D. Tex. 198), aff�d, 746 F. 2d 810 (5th Cir.). In this case the employer, a helicopter charter company, hired only those who were of the Muslim faith or who agreed to convert to the Muslim faith on the basis that non-Muslims flying into Mecca would be beheaded if caught. The employer�s right to religious discrimination was upheld as a BFOQ.

While exemptions are allowed, the employer must demonstrate a "compelling need" to continue the discriminatory practice. In Vigars v. Valley Christian Center of Dublin , Cal. , 805 F. Supp. 802, 808 (N.D. Cal. 1992), the courts refused to grant exemption to a Christian school that fired a librarian for becoming pregnant out of wedlock.

Typically, a Title VI exemption is provided for churches or ministries, not religious- oriented companies like Christian bookstores. For-profit, religious-related corporations that adhere to Christian principles yet are not solely for the purpose of propagating the faith will also not qualify for BFOQ exemptions unless they can prove that religion is a vital part of the job. However, this is one of the statutes frequently quoted to uphold religious discrimination for religiously affiliated companies.

The source for the above:
http://choosecharity.org/titlevii_information.htm

I certainly didn't mean to imply a casual directive to the OP to pursue anything. I was just throwing my thoughts into the mix about how shaking the dust off one's feet and moving along isn't always the best - or the only - option. I have no idea what's best for the OP, and only the OP can know that for sure. Doing nothing and doing something are both fraught with potentially negative implications, and I know the whole experience must have been very disturbing and disheartening, to say the least.

Thanks so much for sharing that info, Chickadee! Very enlightening - and makes me feel even more certain that politics (legislation) and religion is a most dangerous combination. ;-)

Did the principal wait till he showed up to tell him that, my point being that she did not want to write it in an email or call him, for fear of being taped.
Very odd that she made him show up , then told him. Cowardly also.

Is it a catholic school ? I'm disappointed for you that this happened; just doesn't seem right. The person they hire could very well have children that attended christian school and be a predator. Indeed very narrow minded and discriminatory, senseless really.

I've found, in my life, that the people who profess to be "christian" the loudest are the ones who are the least accepting of others foibles, short-comings etc.

I don;t go to church (which according to my "christian" sister
means that I don;t count in the world) but I do have a very positive faith in the world and accept people of all kinds in my life.

And gardeningmusic (love your name), I have faith that your husband will soon have a job that suits him perfectly.

OP here checking in and surprised at the number of responses. Obviously this hit a nerve with many who read it.

Whether or not we have any legal ground to stand on, we won't consider raising a stink about this because to do so would permanently damage our relationship with my husband's family.

Stinky-Gardener--my eyes filled with tears while reading your response. Sadly, these kinds of so-called "Christians" give the whole religion a bad name. I asked my husband, "Who would Jesus interview and hire?" 'Nuf said about that.

Thank you, everyone, for your perceptive comments and also for your positive thoughts about my DH finding work one of these days. My sister-in-law sent an e-mail saying she was so sorry and just didn't think about her school's policy, blah, blah, blah. I need to let more time go by before responding. I don't write e-mails when I'm angry. Reading everyone's responses on this board helps me to work through my bad feelings about the situation.

Never had that experience, but I will tell you that the potential employer asking about your DH's status with regard to children and/or whether they they attend a Christian school is out of line - plain and simple.

Very tough to prove, but your DH was a victim of discrimination on the basis of religion. Tough to prove, not that you would pursue that avenue. If I read your post correctly, your DH was told that the fact that your child does not attend a Christian school was, in fact, a determining factor in his application for employment? If that isn't what you posted, I digress.

If it were me, I would move on and be glad that I wasn't employed by such a narrow minded institution/individual.

Gotta love these types of "Christians". Those who want to talk your ear off about being a Christian, but in their own deeds, do not walk the walk. Literally me sick when I see these people and their contradictory actions.

This just made me sad to read. I think your DH wasn't hired because God has something better for him in mind.

Reading so many great responses makes me so thankful that I marrried what I would call a quiet, steadfast Christian. Always there, always dependable, always accepting, always teaching and always learning.

You gotten some wonderful encouragement and advice on here, and that should help you feel better.

Quite candidly, if I were given the choice, I would gladly work for another company any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

....Jane

Nicely put Stinky!

Oh, smart of you to answer your SIL when your in a better frame of mind.

I am a Finance/HR Director, and asking the questions of job applicants that your DH was asked is for the most part illegal (with some exceptions as already noted). Even asking someone if the HAVE children is illegal. I know you don't want to raise a stink, but I wonder how many other illegal questions this "Christian" school is asking applicants. I am so sorry for this disheartening experience, and I know something better is in store for your family.

Well I'd be less inclined to let discrimination pass, but I'd tread carefully because you want to maintain the family harmony. While you may not want to actively pursue a legal case, perhaps once you're informed about the correct legal posture of the school (and a quick and anonymous inquiry at a nearby legal aid society may be all you need to ascertain what that should be), maybe your husband could contact the principal and ask if the position is still open. He could indicate that your child is not currently in a religious school because of tight family funds, and ask if an exception to the policy is possible in consideration of his sister's presumable relationship with the institution.

While he may prefer not to work in an intolerant environment, at this juncture he needs a job. If the response is still negative, then he may politely inquire why they're discriminating. Just posing the question may cause a change of heart, and he can take the job while actively looking for something with a more honorable employer. He need not threaten or follow up with any legal action, and can just let it go after that phone call or visit. But at this point, he has nothing to lose by an inquiry, if the job has not been filled. The rest of his family does not need to be informed of any more info than you wish to share.

Good luck!

I am so sorry this happened. That's not right. Saying a prayer that your husband gets a job that's a great fit for him and your family.

Bumblebeez, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for singling out your comment. I should have just said what I wanted to say without referring back to your quote. You're absolutely entitled to your thoughts, and the more I thought about this, the more I feared it might seem that I was being argumentative with you personally. That's truly not the case, and I just wanted you to know.
:-)

Gardeningmusician, I just wanted to say that I think you are a great person for not responding to an email while angry. I can tell from your posts that this school missed out in a major way by not hiring your husband.

I guess I am kind of confused by their policy, because I feel like they are saying that Christians only send their children to Christian schools. They aren't turning an applicant away based on religious beliefs, but based on where his kids attend school. That little bit of information doesn't even begin to tell them about the person he is or what his religious beliefs are, if that is truly what they wanted to know. I just don't get it. For example, I personally think children can learn best how to be a true Christian by being in a public school environment. It is a great place for them to learn how to be compassionate for others, play with all kinds of children from many different backgrounds and just quietly lead by example. Character is tested every day in a public school. There are plenty of Christian families that are not in a Christian school. Also, not all Christians can afford to send their kids to private schools, but that does not mean they are less of a Christian. That school's policy is plain crazy. No one should decide who to interview based on where their kids go to school, how does that bit of information define us as a person?

You have handled this situation with total grace.

That's sweet of you to post that Auntjen, but I didn't notice a thing!
This week, I am at art camp and having an 8 year old (a particular Alex) tell me daily "I hate your class! I hate doing this! This is the only class I hate! has been more than enough to fill my "offended and hurt" quota for the day.
But I'm not really :-) he amuses me and helps me be a better teacher. Vivian, who hugs me, makes up for him.

Oh, bless your heart ... Not nearly the immersion factor, but I took two 9-year olds to a Selena Gomez concert last night and still feel like I've been run over by a truck. Love them dearly, but ... wow. They can figure out a million different ways to exhaust a person!
:-)

This must be the week for kids. I'm working with a group of children on the Operation Christmas Child program. Have you heard of that? The program that Billy Graham's son has where shoe boxes filled with toiletry items, small toys, candy, etc. are delivered each year to children who most likely would get nothing at all for Christmas without the shoe box program. Kids are so funny!

Bumble, art probably isn't at the top of the list for many boys that age. Don't take offense.

I will have a new group at church starting this month that we work with. Looking forward to meeting the newbies. Never thought I could work with this age group (middle school/jr. high age), but this will be our 3rd year!

I would also be stunned and depressed. It seems like they are judging him as not "christian-enough" because your children do not go to a religious school, and the irony in that position is shocking (talk about focusing on a speck in someone else's eye while ignoring the log in one's own). I think your immediate family is better off in the long run, by not becoming part of that school. Hopefully his sister will drop the issue, because I would have a hard time coming up with an honest response that would not ruffle her feathers (if she buys into the school's views; if she thinks the policy is ridiculous, then we would have common ground).

For the record, I'm not against religious schools, and respect that they are exempt from certain laws prohibiting religious discrimination. I went to catholic schools for elementary & middle school, although I'm a protestant. I couldn't have cared less where the teachers and other staff members sent their kids to school, and I think that the experience would have been more enriching with some religious diversity.

This is the third week of camp and it lasts all day. Some of the kids have been there all three weeks- I think a five year old would hate art for life after 3 full weeks of it. Most are well heeled- it's not at all cheap.

I'm just teaching mornings and get each age group for an hour.

Good for you AuntJen and Tina! I think it helps keep us young and in touch to do things with kids. I certainly don't want to turn into the mean old lady who never liked kids! Some of them are super sweet and even those who aren't are kinda fun. (But I still know more Harry Potter than any of them)

Tina, I've done something similar to that for missionaries.

Often organized religion leaves a lot to be desired.