I had to completely eliminate dairy while breast feeding my daughter even as far as making sure dairy wasn't an ingredient in already cooked items too. It really didn't seem to make much of a difference on me for any of those things you mentioned. I notice no difference between before, then, and now. Before I ate a lot of dairy, now since my daughter 3 years later still has a dairy allergy I eat much less dairy than I used to. Often I even ask for stuff out of habit without cheese such as salads.

My dairy intake is generally only for breakfast now and occasionally at lunch during the week because something has cheese on it or breads etc. has dairy in it. Since all cooking I do is completely dairy free it is only when I eat out that I get dairy, except for breakfast.

I've never eliminated dairy, but have not had a need to. I do not eat a ton of dairy products though. Like you I do love cheese, but I limit it!

Dairy can definitely have an impact on your complexion though! Didn't someone here post recently about that? I can't remember who!???

I don't know about severely limiting it though. Maybe just cut back? One thing is the fat content and another is some people have problems with kidney stones from too much calcium.

tina

We cut way, way, back on dairy after reading a lot of Dr. Fuhrman's work. I do notice a big difference in my skin and joints when I have less. That being said, I have not completely eliminated it. Dh loves chocolate hazelnut milk. We have made yogurt and ice cream with coconut milk. We love cheese but fake cheese is nasty, disgusting vile stuff (at least to us). So, on the rare occasions we make pizza, we use real cheese, just not as much and for other things like enchiladas, we use real cheese, but not nearly as much.

The funny thing for us is when we have eliminated things (such as gluten, that was for celiac disease) and curtailed other things (we eat a lot less meat and dairy) the diversity of our diet greatly expanded.

I've switched to soy milk for drinking, lattes and cereal because i don't want to consume all the added junk in cows milk (plus we prefer the taste of soy better) but I still keep a pint of 2% on hand for cooking

Other than that we don't consume much dairy-occasional greek yogurt or ice cream. Cheese is probably the biggest issue but we try to get really flavorable stuff so use less. Like extra sharp cheddar or bleu. Try to use goats milk feta, too.

I'm hoping to go vegetarian, so cutting out most dairy will be in the list. Can't hop on the total vegan thing but get close. I am also trying to aim for being more of a locovore and eating organic, too. Primarily to just FEEL better. It's not going to be easy-as I do enjoy a good old artificially flavored grape soda now & then...

But back to the OT, almost due to the added hormones & antibiotics.

According to my naturopath, dairy causes inflammation which causes many health problems and he strongly recommends eliminating it. Because I like dairy I chose to keep eating it but when I had a continuous muscle cramp in my back I decided to try without for awhile. Surprisingly the pain in my back disappeared only to reappear when I again ate dairy (yogurt). I do use organic butter which has no milk solids and occasionally use small amounts of cheese but have given up milk and yogurt completely. My back is still pain free.

I dislike almond and rice milks and won't eat soy so it's just a matter of getting used to a different way of eating. Really reduces calories also to give up most dairy. Virtually impossible to be overweight on a mostly vegetarian/lactose free diet.

Pesky, what was recommended to me is to not try to eat a 100% healthy diet but to allow oneself a treat now and again. When we travel it's very difficult to stay on any restrictive diet, especially when eating out so I don't even try. I even eat rich desserts then that have no redeeming health benefits but do taste fantastic! However, when possible and at least 80% of the time I keep to a very healthy diet and do notice the difference in how I feel.

I've pretty much cut out all dairy - just didn't really see the need for it anymore. If I want ice cream I have some sorbet, don't eat cheese unless I'm having an occasional splurge, only drink almond milk and I'm not a fan of yogurt. I still love my full fat half and half for coffee but that's about it.

I don't see a difference in how I feel on or off dairy products. However, I also read about dairy increasing inflammation which, from what I understand, is the root of many illnesses.

We learned in the last couple of years that DH is lactose intolerant (prob. always has been to some degree but very bad as of 2+ yrs. ago). By default I am almost lactose free. I can't say I notice a difference in how I feel but perhaps it's because I didn't eat all that much dairy to begin with. I will say that I feel great for my age, 62. Weight and skin are good, no aches or pains, I still exercise w/the same intensity or more than when I was younger. I have no idea whether eating almost lactose-free has any bearing w/my general good health though.

Also, I mentioned this before but wish I'd known it years ago, so will mention it again. Goat milk products are terrific. We occasionally use goat butter, evaporated milk. various goat and sheep cheeses. It's been a godsend for those times when a recipe calls for milk, cheese or butter and no substitute will do.

I eat a very large amount of dairy...yogurt and cheese and have never had a problem with aches and pains or skin breakdown. I don't drink milk but do use real 1/2 and 1/2 in my coffee. I agree that the best cheeses are more likely to satisfy so that is what I use. We have always eaten at least a 2# block of good aged cheddar per week for DH and I and then add to that parmesan and feta and assorted cheeses. We also use a couple quarts of yogurt a week. I don't care for the Greek as it is too thick and most of it is artificially thickened. I just hang my regular yogurt to get the whey out ...but usually not. We use real butter but only on toast etc .

I think most things in moderation are the key. Interesting topic...I wasn't aware of the pain/complexion thing. c

I think I was the one who posted about dairy and complexion. Mine is a long story but I started to eliminate dairy in February, trying to find a cause of stomach issues. It didn't really help the stomach issues but after having intermittent (not terribly severe, but it always bothered me) acne for about the past 20 years, at age 47 I noticed that my skin was suddenly clear! For that reason alone, I'm sticking with a mostly dairy-free diet.

My DD is lactose intolerant so we always Lactaid milk in the house anyway, so I use either that or almond milk in my coffee. I am not a big fan of cheese in general -- unless it's on pizza or in lasagna! -- so for me, cutting back on cheese wasn't a problem. I do occasionally have a Greek yogurt and yes, sometimes pizza, but all much less often than I used to. When we went on vacation a few weeks ago, I ate whatever I felt like, from pizza to ice cream, and came home with a bunch of new zits, so I am back to my almost-no-dairy diet.

In re-readng I see that I said we eat the 2# block of cheddar each week ! No...it lasts usually 2-3 weeks..depends on how many grilled cheese sandwiches and omlettes and quiche we eat.

Interesting about the aches and pains. As I thought on this I realized that DH has complained of aching joints for years ! And he doesn't get relief from any OTC med. I am going to suggest that he take dairy out of his diet while he is in San Diego and see if his aches and pains get better. I am so glad this thread was started. I hope that he can get some relief. c

DH has noticed a big improvement in allergies/asthma in cutting back on dairy. We do not have any milk in the house at all. Kind of strange since I remember my brother drinking a gallon in a day or two growing up. My 3 yr old mostly drinks water and the occasional fruit/veggie juice box and/or rice milk.

The last thing we have to get rid of is cheese! I am working on cutting that now. I dont' have allergies or anything, and never thought about my skin, but that would be a nice benefit. Just reading a few books on nutrition have convinced me that dairy is no good for you so I am cutting it out for health reasons.

I think this is one of those cases of where one thing that works for somebody doesn't work for the other. The no dairy has made no difference to my complexion whatsoever. I also have adult acne (was spared as a teen though) for me it is very hormone related in what makes a difference in my monthly cycle. Of course the majority of all dairy I consume are of the organic hormone free kind so maybe the hormones in normal dairy is the cause there for others. Also read the label on the cheese you buy some of it has ingredients I would not expect to see such as Aluminum. Organic if you can find it also tastes so much better imo.

Dairy such as milk and butter are large ingredients in many foods. My daughter is allergic to the proteins such as caseins and whey in dairy, but we don't take any chances with anything that contains milk or those proteins. Goat products still contains caseins and whey and are thus not in our household. Also our pediatric allergist recommends to not have any exposure to the allergen to hopefully allow her body to stop producing antibodies against it so maybe she can eat dairy later.

I do drink milk and yoghurt (organic on both) at home and my daughter drinks rice milk enriched with Calcium. I try to avoid soy and adding extra estrogens with soy substitutes for her, but there are some things we buy pre-made that is dairy free and often there is soy in that instead. Don't want to add soy milk unless I have to in things. Coconut milk and Almond milk are both great for cooking when I need something, but I usually stay away from recipes calling for milk.

I wish I could say eating dairy free for 2 years (I continued for about 8 months after stopping BF) did or didn't do anything for my weight, but dairy hasn't seem to have had an effect there either. Probably because I don't eat much different calorie wise. If I don't have dairy I need some other source of protein so the calories gets replaced one way or another. Of course I have to stick to around 1500-1800 calories a day to maintain weight. If I go above as in eating out where it can really blow up then I gain in no time - dairy or not.

I'm personally of the belief that none of the natural foods (ie non-processed) foods we eat are necessarily bad for us (unless you have an allergy), but that moderation is the key and eating too much of anything your body doesn't need will cause you problems.

However the question for me is how do I figure out what my body really need. I try to listen to food cravings when they don't relate to french fries or junk food, but not sure if that is really the key. I started with this when I noticed that I got cravings for salt (not just salty food) when my blood-pressure was on the low side of my already low-blood pressure.

Since I have type 1 diabetes (very well controlled) I also try to limit my daily carb intake and eat less refined carbs since there really isn't much difference to your blood between a spoon of sugar or a slice of white bread. It both turns in to glucose and for me at the same rate as far as spiking my blood sugar vs. a whole grain bread with lots of fiber.

I guess with all this blabbering my personal choice is try for moderation and avoid too much processed foods, get some exercise, and eat at home and I seem to feel and do better weight wise too.

Actually, studies have shown that consuming dairy can help in losing weight. I'm not pro or con dairy - just stating a fact.

I have actually been entertaining the idea of eating less meat and eating a lot more veggies and limiting our dairy. I watched the documentaries, "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" and "Forks over Knives" and it has really made me think! But, I'm not smart enough to to know if they are politically motivated or not, so I am going to really research it before I do it, and introduce it to my family.

One thing I am concerned with, is all the pesticides on vegetables, so if we eat more veggies, won't we consume more pesticides? We have one small store in town that organic, and of course, the big chain grocery stores have sections that are organic, but, they just don't look as good, but, I'm sure that is because organic doesn't use pesticides and I may just need to get used to it.

It's just so hard to do if you really love to cook and we socialize so much, but, it is our health we are talking about. I will need to educate myself before I do anything that will effect my family and our quality of life.

olliesmom, as stated in the health thread, one physician who cites all of the studies he has used to form his nutrition advice is Dr. Joel Fuhrman. I highly recommend his nutrition information. In one of his books he has addressed the question of organic vs conventionally grown produce. His opinion was that vegetables are some of the best foods you can eat and if you cannot afford/find organic, eating more vegetables still significantly outweighs the potential problems with pesticide residue. Organic of course is still best.

Another thing to consider would be that conventionally grown meat and dairy also has the potential for issues and one of the concerns of this is that toxins accumulate in the fat of the animals.

As far as the appearance of the organic produce, I think there is a happy medium. Organic produce should be fresh but we have been conditioned to expect produce to look a certain way and while it may be aesthetically pleasing, it does not mean that it is better. Kinda like lipstick on a pig. Tomatoes can look perfect in the winter but still have no flavor. The thing that is helping me counteract the tendency towards perfect looking vegetables is growing some of them myself. Many of the plants look terrible, the leaves may have holes in them but it is still nourishing food.

I will go along with tinam61, and I have read many postive studies about dairy. Why do you think athletes drink chocolate milk post-workout? The carbohydrate plus protein helps restore muscle carbohydrate stores (glycogen) and the chocolate helps with reducing markers of inflammation that appear postexercise. I did my doctoral dissertation in this very area. OTOH, there are some reputable anti-oxidant researchers who feel post-exercise inflammation can't totally be eliminated because it is part of the repair process of the muscle.

There are also some interesting studies out of Canada about the role of higher protein and high dairy in maintaining or even improving muscle mass during weight loss. Small studies, but very intriguing. There were no differences in inflammation between groups regardless of the dairy intake, and everyone's inflammatory markers went down as they exercised and lost weight.

A lot of inflammatory markers are due to body fat, especially abdominal fat which produces these, and lack of physical activity. As these improve, inflammation goes down. One of my undergrads is doing a summer internship at the Duke Center for Living where they are studying these markers with respect to exercise and weight loss. They have done several incarnations of these studies and published in top journals.

I've tried to limit dairy, as I've read about various growth hormones being in dairy, and because I'm not in favor of animals being exploited or hurt to produce it. Milk just never quite sat right with me anyway. I've switched to a combo almond/coconut milk by Blue Diamond, and I love it. I used to be a butter addict, but I was finally able to quit that bc I found a substitute I actually like - Earth Balance. And then there's cheese. Ahh, that's a monkey on my back. I just love cheese, and it's so high in fat. I'm trying to wean myself off of it.

I'm dairy-free, and I don't miss it. I made the transition from skim milk in coffee to hemp milk about a year ago. The hemp milk was tolerable, not great, certainly nowhere near as good as milk had been - so, about a week ago, I dropped the hemp milk entirely. And it's true what "they" say - if you forego something completely for a couple of weeks, not only do you lose your taste for it, but you learn to like the new taste. Result is that now I really like black coffee - and I'm a person whose very, very favorite way of preparing coffee was brewed very strong and drunk with a lot of low-fat milk. Now? I simply can't imagine having it with milk.

When I dropped dairy from my diet I had, almost immediately, restful, full-nights' sleep. For the first time in YEARS, I was not waking up multiple times per night with congestion, no more snoring, no more waking up with a runny, congested nose, no more waking up exhausted. There is no way I'll ever go back: milk in my coffee cannot come close to comparing to a good night's sleep!

tishtoshnm, I, too, adhere to a Fuhrman-type diet. I'm near 100% vegan, and I feel fantastic. I've not been sick in over two years, not even a cold.

For people wanting to read more about the effects of dairy on health, start with Fuhrman's books or The China Study.

BTW if you feel you need chocolate for its beneficial effects, well, that's why they invented dark chocolate. ;)