Hi zshopper, had a sleepless night myself, but for other reasons...

What are your son's interests? What are his aptitudes? What are his dreams? What did he get his college degree in?

And on a different track, do you think he is depressed? Does he have friends? Does he have a significant other? Does he have interests and hobbies that he pursues.

He could just be a 25 year old guy in a very tough job market, who hasn't figured himself out yet.

But don't beat yourself up. I recently heard that Charles Schultz's parents were upset that he would just sit and draw cartoons instead of getting a "real job." And Julia Child went to NYC, and couldn't get a steady job, went home, and it wasn't until WWII and going to Europe, and then living in Paris that she discovered she loved to cook. Life is truly a journey and the path is rarely a direct one.

Hi zshopper, I can emphathize with how you're feeling, as parents we always want the best for our children. Barb5, makes a good point, it could just be a tough job market, and the twenties are when we all tend to start figuring out who we are and where we want to go. Everyone needs a break, it's not uncommon for kids to take it before entering the job market. From the sounds of it, you must have done a great job raising him, afterall, he's finished school with a career choice that is serving his community, and stayed out of trouble (assuming this from the career he chose) doing it. He's also doing what he needs to do to be responsible and self supporting. I wouldn't be worried just yet.

Where does your son live and who buys his groceries?

Thanks Barb and all, I have to take a deep breath sometimes. My son graduated from Western New England School in Mass with a criminal justice degree. Taking the NYC test only got an 82 and wasnt high enough. Studied harder and took our local town test and hasnt heard yet. He is my 4th child. He works 11 to 11 3 days a week and 11 to 8 2 days. He does have a girlfriend and many many friends. He never complains and he does live at home but eats at work during the week. Has a girlfriend he sees on the weekend. Very respectable, etc. but my problem is he doesnt see past his nose. He pays all his bills but thinks that is enough. He always is planning some kind of party I sometimes think he thinks he is still in college. The latest party was on a boat, 15 friends at 50.00 each hired a capt and mate and they all had to dress as pirates. They had a ball but that is what I mean he is just happy being him, but at 25 I think he should be motivated to be taking a more steps to find a real job. He is planning a trip cross country with my other son and 2 more of their friends. He makes all the arrangements and has mapped out his journey so I realize he could find a job if he wanted to. Thanks for your support I really needed it today.

I understand your concern totally; keep up the faith and hope, he's only 25.

DS operated a ski lift after graduating with a BCom.
Then taught english in Korea, cheap way to travel.
Took him years to settle down, now he's 32, and is a successful realtor.

You need to let this go so it doesn't taint your relationship with him; I know it
was hard for me to accept his lifestyle without resenting him for it.
It's not your fault at all, some kids are wired differently, and no amount of nagging is going to change them.

I'm the same age as your son and don't have any children yet so I'm looking at this from a different angle.

He sounds like he's a good guy and has a lot of potential. You say he has a job, pays his bills, and has friends. I know A LOT of people that are just now starting to take the adult life more seriously. My best friend happens to be one of those people still finding herself and she's also 25. She has a bachelors degree in marketing, took a complete turn and is now a flight attendant. Travels a lot and just doesn't really have any definite future plans. Has fun. Her parents wonder what on earth she's doing at times.

He probably knows your thoughts about it so I would try not to go on and on. I'm sure you raised him different but I agree that no amount of nagging will change it and could eventually cause tension. Does his girlfriend work? I'd imagine at some point if they're going to create a life together someone will have to map out a game plan and start to get serious. ?

Say a prayer for him and in time hopefully he will have a real desire to do more things in life.

I wish I had an answer, the best I can do is commiserate. I think because I was so young when I first married and had kids (20 then 22 when the 1st was born), and I was pretty much on my own from 18 on, that I sometimes think my kids are late bloomers.

My DD2 and DS didn't get drivers licenses till they were in their 20's. My eldest DD is 26, but no plans to settle down & have a family. Actually none of my kids plan a family, but DD2 IS getting married. No real plans for a life, tho.

My stepson is also 24, and well, his life is a mess (long story) but he's also nowhere close to being the 'adult' his dad was at his age.

I think it's different times. Kids take longer to find their path. Sounds like he's got a responsible base, just hasn't yet found his passion, but when he does, he'll bloom.

"He makes all the arrangements and has mapped out his journey so I realize he could find a job if he wanted to."

But he has a job, he delivers pizza. While it might not be your choice for a job it sounds like he is content with that. Sounds like it allows him the money & freedom to do the stuff he enjoys.

His lifestyle isn't a reflection on your parenting skills. It's just who he is, and maybe it's only who he is right now. Maybe he'll change, maybe he won't. Plenty of people graduate with a degree in something they found out, too late, that they don't enjoy or want to do. Could that be why he's not looking harder for a CJ job?

What do his siblings think about his life/work situation? Not that it changes anything buy they might have a different view of him that would help your peace of mind.

My nephew graduated from college with honors in 3 years so he's not lazy or stupid. Since then (and he's 30 yo now) he has traveled the world working various jobs - mountain guide, short order cook, camp director, etc. It's what makes him happy & it's who he is and none of us could possibly change him. His parents are concerned about his lack of medical insurance but luckily that hasn't been an issue.

I guess my point is to try not to worry about him & try to accept who he is right now. He's only 25 and isn't in jail or on drugs. How did your other kids turn out? When you start worrying too much about #4, think about the others.

My son is also 25 and I'm not thrilled with some of the choices he is making lately either. I empathize with you.

I think that many of us would be planning nice trips and parties if we could. If I had more free time and more money right now, I would be in Florida! He sounds like a nice man, and he is quite obviously motivated.....he is working many hours, planning events and socializing with friends.......plus, he has graduated with a degree. Sometimes, when things don't work out as we plan, (not scoring high enough on the test, having pain in his knee, etc,) it's hard to get our groove back and work on surmounting these difficulties. And while it might be working out right now for him to be living with you, his living there puts his choices front and center to your scrutiny. That's one of the things weighing you down---you really know too much about his personal life. Plus, and I say this not to deprive him of fun and friends and trips......but going back to my first comment about many of us out here wishing we could do some of these things.....If he had a deadline to get himself something where he can completely take care of himself.......he would not have the extra wherewithal to plan expensive parties. And that might motivate him to look for something that paid a little more. Not a thing wrong with pizza--making it--or delivering it. But it doesn't pay that well.

I'm assuming he has no rent? No utility bills? Does he share in the chores to help take care of the home you share?

Red

Have a son a year younger, he's always worked since he was 14. He ended up managing fast food which I hated. When my dad was sick we needed him home on his scheduled day off, they called him in; threatening to fire him.. they did. From there he delivered parts for a Mazda dealer, pay was horrible but it paid his bills, nothing more.

My older step son moved in and started with DirecTV; my dad & I motivated him to apply too (2006) and he is still there while my step son is not (now with Verizon after leaving Comcast as well).

What has worked for me; since my son was 17 or 18, we've had a joint account; (Bank of America) it is his name 1st then my name. Both accounts are linked to my accounts on online banking, I can see them, he can't see mine. I know what bills he pays (cell, car payment, insurance) and I am able to transfer excess money into savings. It used to be that he did not touch the savings but did so about 2 years ago. The last few months since getting his income tax back, he's been good actually saving money. He pays rent, about $150 a month; it may go up some, not sure how much. Right now we are benefiting from his DirecTV employee plan.

My hubby does the same thing with his son with the bank account; but since he's not living with us, it's not working out the way it does with my son. They use a different bank.

I don't doubt your son is some what down for failing the test. I understand his desire for law enforcement, my son is the same way & it was his dream when he drove the parts van. Reality is delivering pizzas (or parts) is not a career. Your son is managing with it like mine did. Is the delivery job under the table? Is he using his own car? If so, does his car insurance know he's delivering? Then you have mileage, oil changes, tires, brakes & gas. Is he making that much money to pay for the car maintenance?

I don't understand how he's getting unemployment since he has a job. If he's getting paid under the table and collecting, I'd be concerned about that. He can get into a lot of trouble if they find out he's doing that, can be made to pay it back from what I've read.

I would be setting some rules if he is living in my house. Adult or not.. too bad. Life is not about blowing money & partying; it would make me feel like he could never live on his own. I would look into how long the results usually take; then go from there. If he still has not passed, it's time to get some help so that he can or think of another career.

With my SS being older (30's) I think that's what has motivated me with my son. I'm seeing the mistakes made there. I know all kids are different; but at 25 they should be taking life a bit more seriously.

I agree with Red, he's had some big setbacks that have to be disappointing to him and it can be hard for us to get our balance back. He's not giving up, though. You've raised a very nice son with solid good values, and that's saying a LOT! Whatever is going on now is just temporary. Take a deep breath and repeat after me, "This too shall pass."

He always is planning some kind of party

Looks like that may be his real niche? You know, there are people who make a very good living planning events... wedding planners, trade show organizers, travel agents, event coordinators, folks who usher conventions around town, and so on. I would suggest to him that he take a class at a local junior college in what kind of job he'd like the most and do best, if he hasn't already. It might not be what he thinks it is. I am recalling a book you can probably get at the library called, "What Color is Your Parachute," although there must be more recent things out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Have fun: Design a career as a party planner

You said he is living with you. Maybe his expenses aren't high enough to demand/motivate him to get a better job? Maybe a 3 to 6 month notice terminating his current living situation is in order. Sometimes boys need to be *launched* into adulthood, if you know what I mean.

If you aren't sleeping at night because of his situation, it's a sign that something needs to change. Maybe a heart to heart conversation is in order. A little straight talk. I think you know him better than anyone. Down deep, are you concerned you are enabling him?

Hopefully he will pass his most recent test get a real job and this conversation and your sleepless nights will be for nothing. (grin)

*If* he is collecting unemployment while working; using his car for employment without telling his insurance, living at home with Mommy, he could just be a tad spoiled. If so, all this is easily fixable. Launch that boy into manhood. Just take comfort in the fact that he is only 25 and not 45. But you don't want him to be doing the same thing at 45 so...

It doesn't sound like he is depressed to me. Depressed people don't tend to have lots and lots of friends and busy themselves with planning elaborate parties, KWIM?

You know something must change or you wouldn't be losing sleep over this. Or would you? Are you a worry wart by nature? (((hug)))

If you aren't sleeping at night because of his situation, it's a sign that something needs to change

I know that I had a lot less anxiety about my son when he no longer lived at home. Not having to see him sleep till noon or later really eased my stress. He moved out by "mutual agreement" shortly before his 18th birthday. I do know that he spent quite a few months "couch surfing" and even slept in his car in front of our house for a few nights before he started renting an apartment with a few friends. His living situation has changed over the years (he just turned 30 and finally graduated from college), but he has not lived at home for any length of time since the initial move out. So far he is not doing anything with his degree, but he makes enough to live on and I'm sure he will be okay.

Now, I'm coming from the perspective of a daughter/person and not a mother, so take this as you will...

My Mom and Dad pushed me to "succeed". Straight on to college and grad school then career. While I didn't quite take the path that they would have wished for me and took many, many missteps, I wound up with a "respectable" career, etc.

Now I am nearing 42 (next month) and I have never traveled outside the US (other than one very brief business trip) and chances are very, very good that I never will. Heck, I don't even get a chance to take a "normal" vacation. My "time off" this year will be spent on-call for work, helping to care for my terminal mother in law and her disabled son and hosting my parents on their visit. I'm tired and burned out but I have the responsibilities that come with being "respectable" so I have to deal with it.

Let your son live, let him do what he needs/wants to do. As long as he's not a criminal and not a burden to others, what's the harm? Being "respectable" is not all that it is cracked up to be.

If my tone is a bit harsh put it down to extreme sleep deprivation. That happens when you have to clean a house (that's been neglected for months due to dealing with family matters), work a more than full-time job and deal with multiple middle of the night calls from a panicked, hallucinating Mom (bad reaction to the pain meds we told the staff NOT to give her). Not to mention finding out your husband is neglecting his own health needs in some serious ways because he won't take the time away from his Mom.

" As long as he's not a criminal and not a burden to others, what's the harm? Being "respectable" is not all that it is cracked up to be."
Maybe not, but being capable of financing an independent life is a goal worth every effort a parent can make to ensure he/she gets there. As crass as it may seem, money IS the key to an independent life for most. Twenty-five may be young, but it's a heartbeat away from 30, when he may sadly wake up wishing he'd spent his 20's preparing for a Life.
We allowed our children a year for travel after college graduation, for the very reason PB illustrates. There might never again be the opportunity, and if it comes later in life would never be the same kind of experience as when youth goes travelling. So allow him his adventure this summer. But come fall......I would not allow this life style to drag on with no time limits in place. The following seems reasonable: He may live at home for 6 mons. if he is employed ( and saving every dime for future rent deposit and 3 mos. rent), AND he is enrolled in classes. These would be to strengthen his weak areas on the test, or perhaps work towards another career goal. He would be allowed an additional 6 mos. if his grades and life style demonstrate his drive to succeed in growing up. Heck, if he wanted grad school and made the grades, I'd pay for it( if I could), AND let him live at home...gladly!)I have so many friends who did not help their child (too lazy/ostrich syndrome) or insist( too soft) that he/she make every effort to be self-supporting, and by that I mean *in a style similar to one they've grown up with, and would most likely desire for themselves in the near future*. These 'boys' are now in their early 30's and guess what? The type of girl they are now seeking as serious companions are just not interested in the really nice, handsome, guy who seemingly has no future. So they marry inappropriate women, have children, divorce, break YOUR hearts as you lose these grandchildren, or end up raising them yourselves as the women were REALLY inappropriate, and then they come back home...again and again.
Okay, I see I just painted a very dark scenario:>/ But I've seen it too often and , in retrospect, it was so preventable. Isn't that a heart-breaking phrase, 'preventable in retrospect'? Get serious with him. He is too old to live at home, deliver pizzas and party. This does not bode well for his future or yours. Rearing an independent, well skilled/educated child is worth every bit of sweat and $$ a parent can muster.
*And if, after gaining all the 'tickets' needed to live this lifestyle he then rejects it...well, fine. He still has the tickets should he change his mind...and you can grow old with the blessed peace of mind from knowing your child will be just fine. You did all you could.

First off, the only thing that you can change is your response to the situation. And it seems as if something needs to happen for your response to get to where you can live with it. You cannot, however, change your son although it's possible that by setting rules and living with them, your son will change by himself.

If I had a 25 year old child who had completed college, tried for a job and didn't get it for whatever reason, but who was working pretty close to full time, I'd be charging that child rent and his pro-rated share of utilities. I would make sure that child had regular responsibilities around the house - ie cutting lawn, doing his own laundry, cleaning the bathroom once in a while - whatever works for the household.

If the child wants to live at home - fine (assuming it's ok with the parents). But the child would darned well know that as an adult, there are responsibilities...like it or not.

I would be able to live with myself if I set boundaries and lived with them. I would not be able to live with myself if my child wasn't pulling their weight. Yes, one is only young once but in my book, the transition to adulthood should have started well before the age of 25.

Sorry, I think you are part of the problem.

I agree with lido . . .he needs boundaries. I don't think you have failed as a parent by any means, and he sounds like a great person. However, right now, he is in Lalaland because he has never HAD to face the realities of what things really cost.

While the pizza job might not bother me (he's employed and it is a very tough market now), it would bother me (as it does you) that he isn't taking care of himself to be healthy and then get a job-- does he have insurance now?

I think a parent teaching the realities of finance is a very important job. My mom is great with money, but never taught me . . .I've learned the hard way and on my own. I wish I could have started younger and with some wisdom from her.

I would charge rent and then, if $ isn't an issue for you, I would put all or some of this money aside and give it to him someday for a downpayment on a house. You would not be mean or "hard" on him to do this-- you'd be doing him a huge favor. If you are paying for other things (like ins.) I'd give him a deadline for when you are going to stop, and then stick to it.

There's a quote out there from yet another parenting expert that says something like, "If something makes you resentful, change it." This is NOT about your son's character, but rather just another lesson about the realities of life. Better he learn now than later . . .

Wow I must say everyone here made me realize how much we all go through and even though we live in different places and live different lives we all have similar problems in life. When I wrote this email I didn't want to come off as defensive I really wanted to hear different ways to approach my problem and I thank everyone for their views it really did help me I read each one of them slowly and focused on each view. Yesterday I spoke to my son about my failing him and he said he wanted to wait until August to see how he did on the test and then will actively look. I also told him that he has to work out his knee because after ACL surgery scar tissue builds up and he wants to be prepared for his physical. We'll see what happens. I also got married at 20 and have been married for 36 yrs. My eldest daughter (34) is married, a teacher and has a child, my son (31) is a speech pathologist for all nursing homes, he was tenured at a school but decided that he wanted to work helping the elderly, my daughter (26)is a teacher. So each have careers. They all love their brother but agree that he has to be more active in looking for a job but they all enjoy being with him because he is not assuming and is easy to be with. He does have a girlfriend he sees on the weekend and she does work too. He mentioned he wants to move in with her by the end of the year. He does pay his car insurance, health insurance and loan, he does clean his bathroom and does all his laundry and is always respectful. I will try to wait this one out and hopefully by September things will change, I will pray harder that he finds his way, thank you all for your support. Mary

Yesterday I spoke to my son about my failing him...

Wow! These words remind me of a conversation I had with DH one night last year. My DD was in the process of applying to colleges and I was fearful that she would not be accepted to the school of her choice. While she started high school on the honor roll, she eventually dropped off and maintained more in the B/C range than A/B. She's a great kid, bright, very responsible and never gives us any reason to worry, but I was lamenting what I could have done to motivate her and guide her to reach her full potential...I thought I had failed her. On the flip side, I told my husband how I had done well in high school (honors, National Honor Society) and college (graduated with honors) despite the fact that my parents really didn't take an active role or interest in my academic life. I think he summed it up best by replying..."so let me get this straight, if you feel that you personally failed our daughter, then what did your parents do by their lack of interest... succeed you?" As silly as it sounds, it started to put everything into perspective ... we are here to support our children and help them realize their dreams, but what they do to achieve their dreams has to come from them and the passion they posses to attain those goals. We are here to love them and guide them and, should they fall, help them stand up and try again. As a P.S., DD wound up being accepted to all of the schools she applied to and is very pleased with the final choice she made. So all of the worry and angst I took upon myself was for nought. I hope this helps you in some small way. Good luck!

One last favorite of DH (that you may or may not have heard already) that helps in many of life's situations, not just in raising children..."you can't change a leopard's spots!"

This is implied but should have inserted the sentence -- "In other words, was their lack of interest the key to your success?" after ..."succeed" you?"

Z-- I think he might be a bit depressed, esp. if he really wanted a career in law enforcement/criminal justice and his knee injury had set that back. Men live in their physical realm more than women do I think, and if his body's not working he thinks it should, it's stressful. So he's distracting himself from feeling bad by doing other stuff-men do that, they do stuff, rather than feeling bad, and worrying.

So, what's his next step? Has he got another idea if being a cop doesn't work out? Can he be a forensics technician, a PI, a health inspector? I think encouraging him to think about the big picture might be a way to get him going.

Mary,

My intention in telling you this, I hope you can see his side a little better, because I think I might just get it.

I just got my degree (political science with CJA as an addtional major) after 23 years of attending a university! Yea! Hurray! Finally. Needless to say, I am not interested in being a police officer any more at the ripe old age of 40-ahem, er something. I am too old. And yes, you need to be a young spry kind of person to wrangle bad guys. So I keep thinking to myself, what can I do with this freakin' degree? You know what you can do with a CJ? Parole officer, probation officer, police officer, or a corrections officer. That's it. So with his blown knee, he can't do the most lucrative and interesting one, police officer. I can see he'd have no interest in doing the others as he'd be dealing day-in-day-out with those society has found too hard to handle. Not just kicking them into a jail. Or maybe he hadn't thought about the others. I am still trying to brainstorm for myself, so maybe he is too (aside--I wish I could be a detective without being a beat officer. That would be interesting!!!). So basically, he's lost everything he's worked for, for the past few years. And has to start from scratch.

z,

I'm curious how it's going for your son. Did he end up ok yet?

Well he just left the pizza place because he said it was time to have more time to try harder. The past week he went on a few interviews, but he tries everyday, but not as hard as he should. I try not to get too upset but I dont think I'll ever sleep until he is settled. He went on an all day interview Monday and it was should I say not good. It was a marketing job, now I dont know if you are from the NY area, he was to go to Fordham Rd in the Bronx, NY and try to convince each merchant to change over to Verizon. No pay just commission. He went on another interview that was marketing and it was to set up a booth in Costco and sell Nascar car wax. This is just too depressing. I do pray each night for him, I do know he will be the best when or if he gets a job. I only hope it's soon because I wouldnt want to see him get too down. Oh, Thanks for asking.

The economy, especially in NYC, sucks right now to put it bluntly. Unemployment is over 10%. I'm not sure how you think he should try harder, but it's really tough out there right now.

I think it is a good time to update and hone skills for that job that he may want someday. Community colleges are great places to get these skills.

DH retired from 30 years of a desk job just as our retirement savings took a dramatic downturn in the recession. He got a day job installing solar panels, and the company paid for him to take a course at the community college in solar panel installation. The business he is working for is doing very well. And the best thing is that DH loves to work with this group of guys in an active hands on job.

Has your son considered doing something like this in renewable energy? DH's company has also added sales people. It seems like renewable energy is one area where there are still jobs.

Also, I think there is money in pizza for those who own their own places. I knew a young man years ago who has done very well with several small independant pizza parlors.

Well, the best way to motivate my boys is to stop doing for them. LOL! Max, 21, is in college and this year I told him it was time to get a job. I just thought he had too much time on his hands, even while he was going to school full time.

Amazingly, he landed a job with the county. He is working with mentally ill substance abusers in the bay area. Good pay with benefits. I swear I don't know how he managed to pull off such an interesting job. I thought a dishwashing job would be just fine.

He is supporting himself now. Paying San Francisco rent prices isn't cheap. He just opened up his own checking account. I'm holding my breath but he seems to be proud of himself.

Well phooey. I was hoping for more. Even if he isn't finding good work (yet!), at least he's motivated. Will he consider outside of New York? Not that it's better other places, but then again, maybe it is??? I'm still thinking about y'all.

I was so upset on Friday. I just kept saying to myself as sweet and nice as he is I just think he is "Maynard G. Crebbs", remember him on Dobie Gillis? He seems happy to just stay at home. Yes of course he pays his bills, but what the heck, the only way to try harder is to either temp to perm or go to a headhunter. Each day after work I take a short walk with one of my kids or should I say adults. He looked at me and said "gee mom you're no fun to walk with". I cracked up to myself but I think if I saw him try harder I would feel better or maybe it's not him it's just me that I want him settled. Oh by the way my 27 year old daughter just moved back last week, She is towing the line-- DH said she could stay but has to come back as a 27 yr old not a 10 yr old. Seemed to work uuhhh it's only been 1 week.