I think there are many factors contributing to absolutely no continuity in womens' clothing sizes. Seems that the foreign manufacturing is a crapshoot without much quality control regarding sizing among other things. Another thing I've noticed is that many higher end brands are cutting sizes larger. I guess they think that it may please a size 10 woman to be able to buy a size 8 dress that fits? Very frustrating if you don't shop at the same places regularly.

Basically, I buy clothing from approx. 4 stores. All stores that I know what size fits ME. Also, I hate to shop for clothes, (love to shop for food, especially gourmet, lol), so the majority of my clothes are purchased from few tried & true online sources. If I don't like the fit, color or whatever, I just exchange or return.

Can't wait to read the others' responses. Great topic.

I totally agree - it's crazy! I wear two sizes smaller than I used to just a few years ago, and I have not changed at all in height or weight. Maybe it is due to where the clothes are being made, but I also wondered if it wasn't a way for companies to make people feel better about the size they wear - and therefore increase their sales. It drives me nuts. Nothing fits very well anymore, and I can not figure out at all what size I am supposed to be.

WIP, I was posting at the same time, but was thinking the same thing that you were. Also, like you, I have limited myself to a few stores where I have figured out what size works, to make it easier for myself. But my outfits all look very similar now!

I have noticed that the sizes are getting bigger too and it is very frustrating.

I am small-framed and I bought some size-small sweaters and shirts from Kohls the other day and had to return all of them because they were all much too big. When I returned, I tried to find other things to buy and nothing in the whole store fit me as far as skirts or pants.

I used to reliably be able to wear a small or size 2 everywhere and now I can pretty much only shop at three stores now (Ralph Lauren; Abercrombie and Lacoste) unless I want to buy kids clothes (which I do a lot, especially w/ dresses but then they are sometimes shorter than I would like).

I also think it has become very hard to just find simple clothing at most stores. I could not for the life of me find plain cotton sundresses that didn't have really graphic prints, that weren't really tight/clingy or that weren't garish in some way. I just wanted plain colored cotton tee-shirt dresses that fit :(

"I also think it has become very hard to just find simple clothing at most stores. I could not for the life of me find plain cotton sundresses that didn't have really graphic prints, that weren't really tight/clingy or that weren't garish in some way. I just wanted plain colored cotton tee-shirt dresses that fit :("

YES! This is frustrating! The material is thin, clingy and looks cheap. I have a hard time just trying to find basic things in a local store. I don't like ordering clothes online. I like to try everything on and more times than not I leave with nothing.

I agree sizes are far from accurate. I'm all over the place. I don't know of anyone who likes the way the sizing is so inconsistent. No fun to have to grab 3 of each item you try on.

I started s job recently where I don't wear scrubs. Shopping for clothes has been a PIA! I am 6 ft and 210#. A misses size 18 fits well when I can find them. Of course they are usually then way too short. I was able to find 18L on Koh'ls web at a reasonable price. A woman's 18 fits oddly, I am not short and squat or have a round shape. I am just tall and well proportioned.

More difficult seems to be buying tops. I was at Coldwater during their 70% off sale. I tried the same sweater on , every color fit different. Some I needed an xl, some a 2x. Really? How are you expected to order on line or catalog?

The other odd thing is the cur of the tops and not just at Coldwater. The armholes come half way down to my waist. I don't get who these are supposed to fit. Do they have real people try these on before they make them? I don't think so.

Glad to know others are frustrated also and it is just not me.

Sizes have changed for one reason only...to inflate women's egos. Which is better? I wear size 18 or I wear size 12?

It has nothing to do with where clothes are made.

Perhaps, jmc, and that doesn't bother me, it is the inconsistencies...all size 10's are not the same size, and THAT is within the same clothing brand. I buy quite a bit from Boden, Eddie Bauer and Jones New York and even sticking with those lines, I don't know what sizes to get.
This winter I bought a sweater from Eddie Bauer in an extra small. It fits perfectly, roomy even. Maybe that's why it was on sale from $119 to $29! I went for the extra small based on 2 reviews calling it a huge tent.

There's no answer, this is just a thread to vent and commiserate.

So interesting to read everyone's perspective. I've never been in a Kohl's maybe I should check it out.

I've found that what used to be a ladies large is now marked at XL, 1X is now 2X, etc. There never used to be XS! Now it's the norm it seems.

I have found that clothing is cut so poorly-and when they think of plus size, it's just wider, not longer. I don't NEED a wider shirt, I need one that goes past the waistband of my jeans! Or how about cutting it just a bit wider across the shoulders, because well endowed gals need a bit more room there to avoid gappage or stretching.

I lucked into a dress today...had to pick one in a size that is the next size up from what I typically wear, and this is a jersey fabric with an elastic waist...no reason to need a bigger size. It was the largest size they carried in the store, too. Which is down 2 sizes from what they used to carry for their largest size. So the whole sizing thing is just a big joke.

On a side note-the dress I was looking for was floor length-I told a young (30) coworker I wanted a maxi dress and she asked me what that was. Then the clerk at the store said the same thing to me, she didn't know what a maxi dress was. Wow! So what DO they call floor length casual dresses? In my day they were maxi-dresses...midi was calf length, and then of course, mini was above the knee.

It's especially aggravating when compared with men's clothing...when I shop for DH, I know his shirt size and his pant size and I bring them home, and they fit!

The only problem I have with him is he is a small and most makers simply don't carry small sizes in mens any more. He wanted a new jean jacket, and I had to order on line from Wrangler...they were the only one's who even made men's small! Of course, though when he put it on, it fit like a glove. No guessing there.

Another thing about women's clothing...has anyone else noticed that there is no predictability on which way the fly front on a woman's pants open? Some of mine are left and some of mine are right....what's up with that???

Anyone want to talk shoes? Sorry, but my toes, and probably the majority of human feet, are not shaped like a triangle....can we in the 21st century possibly design attractive shoes that fit a human foot comfortably?

Sigh.....

I haven't noticed the change in zippers, how interesting. Wonder if buttons are going the same direction. Maybe they are using men's size patterns and not care. Pajamas bug me, I am small and short, but buy talls in large so there is no gap in the back. Also sweaters, most seem so short now in sleeves and length. They fit great, another change to all.

Now you have me looking at zippers.....

Funny that I haven't found things to be getting bigger. I have been wearing a size 6 forever, yet lately 6's are too small. My old clothes still fit, so i know it is not a weight gain. (Although I fluctuate)
There is no quality control. Walk into the Gap, if one 6Ankle doesn't work, I go and bring in all they have. You can often find an inch difference in the waist.
Another frustrating thing is that the sale people don't check the racks. Five of the same size, none in others etc. I get if they are out of your size but when you ask they often fetch one from the back.

I go nuts with clothes shopping. I've learned some of what usually fits me, but it is so irritating when the same size is not the same size. I never try on Calvin Klein clothes because they seem to be cut for women whose shape is straight -- the waist and hips seem to be the same circumference. The curvy pants at Talbot's fit me well, although I think Talbot's really goes in for the vanity sizing.

I am stunned by the poor quality of the fabric used today. Yesterday I was at an outlet mall (ick). I stopped in a so-callled Jones NY store and the fabric was all cheap, cheesy junk. I call it chemical fabric, rather than cotton or wool -- or even a blend. I know the outlets sell a line manufactured just for them (or perhaps relabeled from Walmart!), but in the past I associated Jones with good quality. Why would they put their name on that crap?

The clothes that seem to fit and be well made are also expensive. The NYDT jeans fit me well, but cost about $120 a pair. Ridiculous.

I did learn that clothes are cut in piles, and the piece at the top of the pile are going to be different from pieces at the bottom. In other words, ten pant legs will be cut all at once. The fabric shifts during the cutting process so the pieces will be slightly different, affecting the size. That's one reason why two identical pieces of clothing will fit differently.

I used to like clothes shopping, now I hate it. LL Bean fits, but their styles can be dorky. Talbot's fits but is pricey-ish. Eileen Fisher fits but IMO the prices are astronomical. I have some luck at Bloomies and Lord & Taylor, but it is a struggle.

Of course it seems that the styles are mostly meant for those under age 40. If I walked around in many of those styles, I'd look ridiculous.

I agree it is very frustrating. I can't order online any more, have to try on in person because it's such a PITA to send things back when they don't fit.

All that cheap polyester stuff is horrible. It used to be, years ago,that mid range clothing lines, the now defunct Liz Claiborne, for example, would have all wool or all cotton things, now finding something all wool is difficult.
Boden has pretty much become my go to shop for classics.

I'm tired of the S, M, L sized clothing. Used to be that clothes were sized, 4, 6, 8, etc. Now, S is 4-6, or 6-8, depending on the manufacturer. And something that is sized for two different sizes, is going to be a bit tight on some people and a bit loose on other people. I want real sizing brought back. You can find it still in some pants and some manufacturers, but so much is now S, M, L that I despair.

I think the S, M, L sizing has let the clothing manufacturers get sloppy. They just cut things big enough to fit the larger of the two sizes and label it as one size. Then they put stretch into the fabric so it can fit even more people.

And they leave out all the pockets.

My problem with size creep is that it takes away my external girdle. If I were to find myself topping out the size rack in a normal size store, I would be alarmed and go on a diet. What passes for "normal size" clothing today fits an unhealthfully fat body, at least if that body is 5'6" or shorter, which many women still are.

Similarly with the dependence on published BMI charts. They can really give you a false sense of health if you are not big boned or muscular.

The clothing size phenomena reminds me that I have to be vigilant and honest with myself -- just because the belly fits into a small size DOES NOT mean it's healthy!

I now only shop for clothing out of necessity. Something wears out I grit my teeth and head for the mall. I am so tired of the crap out there, the poor construction, the stupid sizing, the generally poor selection, the generic selection of stuff, etc.... you get my drift.

I had never heard of Boden, Bumblebeez, but just checked out their website and they have some really cute stuff! I ordered a summer dress - keeping my fingers crossed that it fits!

Ded, the poor quality material used in women's clothing is my biggest beef. Thin and flimsy.

In the summer I buy men's tee shirts (colored) to wear around the house because they're a higher quality cotton. The same company can make women's tees and they're a lot thinner.

Another thing I don't like about women's clothing is how short they make the sleeves. I'm so glad 3/4" length is coming back in style.

Boden has very good quality in my experience. So far, sizes are true to size-I am a size 4 and 5'4" and everything I have bought has fit perfectly. I have to pick and choose, though, because I don't usually wear a lot of patterns and most of their dresses are patterned. I tend to buy their skirts and solid tops.

Coincidentally, I spotted this book called Overdressed at the library this afternoon. It's about how clothing has become so cheap and how that affects the consumer. Very interesting. I will borrow it and read it soon.

Here's a comment from Amazon:
Cheap fashion has fundamentally changed the way most Americans dress. Stores ranging from discounters like Target to traditional chains like JCPenney now offer the newest trends at unprecedentedly low prices. Retailers are proíducing clothes at enormous volumes in order to drive prices down and profits up, and theyâÂÂve turned clothing into a disposable good. After all, we have little reason to keep wearing and repairing the clothes we already own when styles change so fast and itâÂÂs cheaper to just buy more.

Here is a link that might be useful: Overdressed

Ded, That book looks very interesting, I'll see if If I can get a copy somewhere. Regardless, the premise, is certainly true!

Gail, Boden has fantastic sales too, check out the clearance page. I love their skirts and jackets. But, uhmm, they do have that sizing issue!!

Dedtired, I so agree with that Amazon comment. And that's why I thank goodness today that 5-15 yrs ago I bought very classic style, well made clothing that I still wear today. That's how and why I know I'm a sz 8 and 6 and 4...all at the same time!

When I shop today, I pay the price for quality...and when I travel, I learn what's best to buy in the place I'm visiting and I load up!

I hate shopping for clothing. I refuse to buy poor quality and try my best to buy only made in the USA. If I find an item or a brand I like, I will buy multiple. I buy some items on line (did I mention I hate to shop????!!!),buying only from vendors that I trust the quality and fit. Since I generally only go with a few tried and true brands/stores, I don't seem to have a terribly hard time with sizes. I agree with jcm about paying for quality. I do have a hard time with jeans and it breaks my heart that my favorite levis are now made in Mexico. They DO NOT fit the same. Same for my husband - he no longer wears them (other than his old levis).

tina

I have had really good success at Lands End in the last year or so.

Their pants never used to fit, but now they fit very nicely. Much like Talbots but at a much better price

Get on their email list, they run 30% off about every six weeks.

Old Levis...even the Levi company has changed their sizing.

It also depends on the brand. I like INC which you can get at Macy's in regular and petite sizes. If I get the petite size, it's a 4. If I can't find it in a petite size i'll get the regular in a 2, but trousers are usually a little longer, sweaters too. It's a better made product, and since Macy's is always having sales, wait until the 50% off sale, and use a 20% coupon usually sent with my statement or can be found in their weekly ad.

I was in JCP last night, and the T-shirts they showed for $6 looked comparable to Old Navy; i.e., a thin poorly constructed rag. I hope all their clothes aren't going to become cheap.

Even if the T-shirt doesn't quite start out looking like a "thin poorly constructed rag", most T-shirts will look like that after wearing and washing them a few times. I am happy to pay up for good quality, but it is becoming much harder to find.

Oh how I miss the old Levis. I am giving up on jeans which breaks my heart.

Now they are doing it to MEN!!! DH went shopping for himself (very unusual!), and brought home 4 shirts. Same size he has worn for 4 years or so, neck X sleeve sized, and they were HUGE!! So, he had me take 3 back....

I used to love to clothes shop...now I cannot stand it. Cheap fabrics, and everything has to be tried, part of it fits, it just frustrates me and I leave.

I went to Soma to look at PJ's. I wear a small in those, and I have several sets. So I see a tank top in a pretty blue, but they look small, so I get XL. Get home, and they fit like a swimsuit, YUK. Now I have to take them back. ARGGG.

Nancy

Jamies, it is kind of funny that you mentioned that angle. Dh is small and so he is beginning to take some of his clothes to be altered (sleeves shortened, taken in, etc). After gagging on the price I informed he has to watch his weight but we will not be paying for that all the time for the clothes to just not fit in the future.

I definitely plan to read the book mentioned above. I had suspected the trend with clothes being so disposable that they were no longer made with quality and I find it almost disgusting to see such waste all in the name in looking good according to what fashion is for a moment. I am much more interested in clothes that are flattering and well constructed, at least when I am not wearing my dirt stained jeans cheap men's T-shirts from Wal-Mart in the garden.

My big gripe with sizing is that women's long pants, all they do is make the legs longer, never adjusting the crotch/seat. While tall, it is more in more torso and it is very rare to find a pair of pants that fits well.

These clothing issues...size and lousy fabrics...has led me to follow the old adage of "shop your closet". There are so many items in the closet that rarely get warn and yet there's nothing wrong with them....they just somehow end up in the back. So pull the stuff out again and look at it with a fresh eye...look for new combos or maybe you need just one finishing piece to complete the outfit rather than a whole new outfit. And get those pants hemmed or the skirts shortened or whatever the alteration was that you knew it needed when you brought it home and never did it. It's amazing what you can find in there.

I wish women's slacks and jeans were sized the same as men's, so you can choose you inseam length. By the time I find a pair of pants that fit me in the hips, they are anywhere from six to eight inches too long. I take them to be shortened, but then the leg is too wide at the bottom because the leg tends to be wider as you go up. So once you cut off six inches, the part intended to fit your calf is now at your ankle. Also, it is difficult to hem a pair of jeans and have it look like the original hem.

I've tried on petites, hoping that they would not have to be shortened but then the rise is too short.

That is so true. One of the sayings from Maganverde on the Decorating Forum said something like, "Decorate for the life you have, not the life you wish you had." This is true with clothing.
Sometimes I buy things thinking it will be good for a certain occasion or even just going out to dinner. Often times these things aren't worn much and I just now lately am trying to put more clothes in rotation.
Another thought is to demote your clothing. A blazer that you might not want to wear to work can look nice with jeans to go shopping.
I think too the trick is to be constantly looking. Years ago I used to go out and buy a bunco of stuff. Now I am happy if I come home with one sweater or top per shopping trip.
Sometimes I get frustrated but I have to tell myself not to buy marginal clothing. If you don't love it and if it does not fit perfectly than skip it. Sometimes I feel desperate and will talk myself into something just to have something new.
I had a freind who would not take off the tags until she wore the items around the house or even out for a walk. This way she was sure of comfort level,.

OMG, this is a topic that I can definitely relate to. I've been slowly crossing stores off my list for the past 6 years or so. I really only had one store left that had clothes that really fit me. In that store, I was a size 2. The last time I went in there (when I was going back to work after HAVING A BABY!) size zeros were huge on me. There's nothing smaller than size 0 in the stores that I can afford to shop in. What am I supposed to do now? Wear clothes that don't fit? Shop in the kid's section? I'm a grown ass woman!

I get that the population is getting larger (not numbers wise, but size wise), and that stores are adjusting their sizes to accomodate, but I really feel like small-framed women are getting the short end of the stick here.

stephf, I wish I had your problem ;)

From the Mens' viewpoint-

I don't shop all that often, but in my size area, it's fairly consistent.
(I'm 6'3" with more length in torso, 260 lbs.)
2XTall for Polo's & Tees.
17, sometimes 17-1/2 x 35 for dress-shirts.
Long ties...if I can find them!
Suit-coats/Blazers...46L Regular cut.
* Sorry...GOTTA have pleated slacks & cuffs!!

Ralph-Lauren or JCP's SJB Khaki slacks/shorts in different colors, 32" inseam.
So usually, I just look for those #'s and I'm good-to-go!

Faron

I keep seeing references to the vanity sizing on websites that I frequent, but, like ellendi commented above, it hasn't proven true with my own shopping. My old size 6 suits and pants (some are 10 years old) fit me well, and some are even a bit loose. My new suits are all size 8s, and many 8s don't fit me. The cuts seem to have changed a few years ago in a way that doesn't suit me. Jackets and tops are cut narrower in the shoulder (I have broad shoulders), and pants are cut smaller in the seat and thighs. Clothing is closer to being straight up and down. If I had a different body type, perhaps a smaller size would work, but with my body type I seem to need larger sizes, which then need tailoring to truly fit well because they're too big in the torso and waist (my goal for this year is to work towards better fits and find a good tailor).

I wear suits 4 days a week, and dressy business casual on Fridays, and I've been unimpressed with the fabric quality of most suits. So I usually try to buy my suits at places like nordstrom rack, because the lower cost matches what the suits seem 'worth' to me (I can't see paying $300 for a low quality fabric).

Casual clothes are even more hit or miss for me. Macys is mostly junk. Ann taylor loft and their outlets were once reliable, but not any more (I bought a top from ann taylor outlet a few weeks ago and it literally fell apart when i ran it through the delicate cycle before wearing it; unfortunately I'd thrown out the price tag). Banana republic seems too expensive for the quality. I love boden but sadly nothing that I have ordered from them fits me; their fit model must have a very different body type. Sigh...

I hate it when someone asks me what size I wear. I honestly do not know. Some size 30 pants are too big yet others won't even go over my hips.

I pay no attention to size tags anymore.