Also Lakeside Cha Cha, although, I don't have a pic yet because I just planted it last summer. But it does have pie crust edge and looks lovely from the pics on Made In the Shade Gardens site.

Fritzgarden, Are you adding everything in the mixer all at one time? When making a pastry crust it's important that the flour & fats get combine just until their just slightly smaller than pea size. During the baking process it's those fat pockets that create the flaky crusts. After I measure out the fats, I place them in the freezer 10 minutes, then I take a cup of water to which I've added ice. When ready, I'll measure out the ice water. Mix together:the flour, salt,shortening & butter mix until the mixture resembles peas size. Slowly add the water, as soon as comes together remove from the mixer. Gather it together,then make your disk, place that in refrigerator, it's important that this pastry rest 30 to 60 minutes, it's also very important that the fats get cold once again, before rolling out to ensure a flaky crust.

Lard has a larger fat crystal than other fats, which is one reason it works so well in pastry. Butter gives great flavor but has a lot of water in it and it melts quickly. The combination of lard and butter in pastry is a great twosome. When I use coconut oil (frozen and grated on the large hole on my box grater), I can reduce the amount of fat by about 25 percent, especially when using pastry flour or milling soft wheat or low-gluten spelt into flour to use for pastry. Good pastry is a combination of tenderness and flakiness and each characteristic is developed differently. Pastry is all about reducing the gluten development in the flour, so choose flour (pastry flour or Southern All-Purpose flours like Martha White, White Lily, Gladiola, Red Band) that has a low protein/gluten content to begin with as a great way to reduce gluten-development up front. If you want more tender pastry while using all-purpose flour you can add a little more fat and add an acid ingredient. Divide the cold fat in two portions and mix one half in the flour until it's very finely mixed. This will coat the flour so it develops the gluten in short strands (hence short-crust pastry) when the liquid is mixed in and will give a tender crust. Quickly add the remaining fat and keep it in larger blobs. When the heat of the oven melts the blobs of fat the steam will raise those layers in the pastry we recognize as a flaky pastry. Vinegar in a recipe is another way to decrease the gluten-development. Adding an acid brings one more tenderizer into play. "Acids soften gluten, breaking apart gluten strands and keeping the pastry tender." When eggs are used in a pastry recipe it is best used for something like a meat pie. The protein from the egg will reinforce the structure of the pastry, making it strong enough to hold a hefty filling. When liquid vegetable oil is used to make pastry it is considered a "warm fat", which coats each particle of flour so completely than no gluten develops. Oil pastries are very tender and tend to be more mealy than flaky since you don't have steam raising those flaky layers. Oil pastry is generally easier to handle and is easy to roll between two sheets of waxed paper. It's neither right or wrong what type of pastry you make - it's just one of those cooking/baking choices we make - BUT - as a general rule of thumb don't take an oil pastry to the fair because it will tend to get judged down because they rarely come up to judging standards. If a sticky dough that is hard to roll-out is your problem, you have too much gluten developed - probably from adding too much liquid and/or using flour that has a high protein content. Northern all-purpose flours like King Arthur and Robin Hood really don't make good pastry because of the high amount of protein. Add as little water as possible!!! As soon as lumps of dough stick together during mixing, stop mixing and adding water. It takes very little extra water, as little as 1/2 teaspoon, to quickly toughen the dough. -Grainlady

Thanks for the no oats recipes! I grew up with a no oats crisp and made the oats version for many years. To me, it's like eating an oatmeal cookie crumbled over apples. Too heavy and sweet, especially with the ice cream. My version is from Caprial Pence, who once owned a popular bistro in Portland OR and had a cooking show on PBS. Fruit Crisp from Caprial's Desserts 1 c. flour 3/4 c.sugar 3/4 c. cold unsalted butter, diced 1/2 tsp. vanilla pinch of salt Combine all ingredients and mix with fingers until mixture resembles a coarse meal. Note: I like to press some of the dough into marble-sized clumps and refrigerate it to maintain the clumps. Otherwise, it spreads while baking. 7 c. peeled and sliced tart apples 2/3 c.sugar 2 tbsp. cornstarch 1 tsp. cinnamon 1/2 tsp. nutmeg, allspice, and ginger 1 tsp. vanilla Toss fruit with the other ingredients. Place in a 9" x 13" greased pan. Sprinkle with topping. Bake at 350 degrees until bubbly, about 45 min.