Whistle - Here you go.... 1. Scalded the milk and cooled it. Mixed warm milk, warmed water and o.j., egg and agave nectar (or honey if you are using it) in the bottom of the pan. 2. Mixed together flours (and vital wheat gluten and flaxmeal, if used) and add to the top of the liquids. 3. Add the yeast to the top of the flour. (Note I added the fat and salt later during the kneading. It takes stress off the bread machine with this much bulk to mix the dough WITHOUT the salt. The gluten develops quicker, and once the salt is added, the gluten strands tighten up making kneading a little more difficult. 4. Set Zo. on QUICK DOUGH. Press START. 5. After 5 minutes of mixing/kneading, be sure to check to make sure the dough has the correct hydration and adjust it if you need to. You want a nice soft dough ball. 6. After 10 minutes of kneading (or when it looks like the gluten is developing nicely, add the melted butter and salt. When the add-in beep sounds, add 1/2-3/4 c. multi-grain cereal (if using it - I milled a mixture of barley, rye, triticale, spelt, oats and rice). 7. When the kneading is complete, remove the dough from the pan and place in a dough rising bucket (or however you normally work your dough). DO NOT allow the dough to rise in the bread machine because this is more dough than suggested for the machine. 8. Allow the dough to rise to just under double. Punch down. Divide dough (I had 3 portions that weighed around 1-lb. 2-oz. each. Round the dough (so you have the ball formed into a tight ball with NO shaggy edges from the dough being cut, and the gluten strands are going from the top to the bottom of the ball), cover (I use plastic wrap) and allow to rest 10-15 minutes so the gluten can relax. Form, cover (plastic wrap), and allow to rise to just under double...... I made one portion into 9 dinner rolls (8-inch square pan) and baked the bread in 8"x4-1/2" NORPRO pans, but I also use heavy-gauge Calphalon pans that are the same size, or will use some ancient Bake King loaf pans that are 7-1/2"x3-1/2" (for dough amounts between 12-16 ounces). If the dough is over 1-pound, I'll use the larger pans. I baked my loaves to 200°F. when tested with an instant read thermometer. -Grainlady

Petra, this recipe for hard rolls/ brat buns has been in my To Try file for about a year but I've not yet made it because I hadn't been able to find malt extract. Found it last week & just waiting for a break in the weather for grilling some brats. Maybe what you're looking for?? Semmel Rolls In Sheboygan, if you talk brats, you'll also be talking about the Semmel; a substantial, chewy roll with a delicately crispy crust. The Semmel is a close cousin to the Kaiser, but with a distinctive cleavage across the top. The baked Semmel is large -- about 4 inches in diameter and rises to about 2 inches in height. To make the single brat bun, shape the rolls like a hot dog bun before final rising and baking. The genuine Sheboygan Semmel is baked in a brick oven. In your home oven, your results may vary. A baking stone helps. 4 1/2 cups bread flour (approximate) 1 package dry yeast 1 Tablespoon sugar 1 teaspoon salt 1 1/2 cups hot water (120-130 degrees) 1 teaspoon malt extract 1 egg 1 egg white 1 Tablespoon shortening Rye flour for dusting Measure 3 1/2 cups of flour into a mixing or mixer bowl and add the yeast, sugar, and salt. Stir to blend well. Pour in the warm water and malt extract. Mix for 1 minute with a wooden spoon or mixer flat beater until a smooth but heavy batter forms. Add the egg, egg white, and shortening. Beat together until the mixture is smooth. If with the electric mixer, remove the flat beater and continue with a dough hook. Add flour -- 1/4 cup at a time -- until the dough is a solid but soft mass that can be lifted from the bowl, or left under the dough hook. Knead the dough with a strong push-turn-fold motion for 10 minutes, adding liberal sprinkles of flour if the dough is wet. If in the mixer, the dough will clean the sides of the bowl and form a ball around the dough hook. If, however, it continues to cling to the sides, add sprinkles of flour. Place the dough in a greased bowl, cover tightly with plastic wrap, and set aside to double in bulk, about 1 hour. Uncover the bowl and punch down the dough with your fingers. Cover the bowl again and allow the dough to double in volume again, about 45 minutes. Place the dough on a floured work surface, roll it into a 12-inch long cylinder. With a sharp knife cut 12 pieces from the length (at every inch on the ruler). Shape the pieces under a cupped palm into smooth rounds. Cover and allow to relax for 5 minutes. Flatten each roll with your hand to about 1/2 inch thick. Dust lightly with rye flour. With a length of wooden dowel, a round wooden spoon handle, or a pencil, press a deep vertical indentation into the top of each roll. Press firmly and deeply, almost to the bottom (omit this procedure if shaping rolls into single-brat buns). As each roll is shaped, place it face down on a greased baking sheet. Cover the rolls with a length of wax or parchment paper, and leave them at room temperature to rise -- slightly less than double in size, about 40 minutes. In the meantime, prepare the oven by placing a pan under the middle shelf. Twenty minutes before the bake period preheat the oven to 450 degrees, quite hot. Five minutes before the rolls are to go into the oven, pour 1 cup of hot water in the pan to form steam and provide a moist environment for the rolls. Be certain hot water is in the pan. Uncover the rolls, carefully turn them right side up, brush them with water or spray lightly with an atomizer of water. Place the pan on the middle shelf of the hot oven. Three minutes later lightly spray the interior of the oven -- not directly on the rolls. Midway through the bake period turn the sheet around so that the rolls are exposed equally to temperature variations in the oven. They are done when crispy brown all over, in about 25 minutes. Remove the rolls from the oven. If, after the rolls have cooled, they are not as crisp and crusty as you like, put them back into a hot oven for 10 minutes.

bbstx, don't give up. I did make the no-knead bread (twice, in fact) and just wasn't impressed with flavor or texture, so I went back to traditional bread, but a lot of people love it. I never tried it with beer, that might make a difference in flavor. I don't use a scale for anything, I learned to bake bread by "feel". Even in the bread machine, I'll measure ingredients according to the recipe and then check the dough. Sometimes it needs more flour, sometimes more liquid, depending on the flour, the humidity, many factors. I just made breadsticks last night from a King Arthur recipe which is usually pretty much "right on" and had to add nearly 1/2 cup of water because it was too crumbly. I'm blaming the Gold Medal bread flour I'm stuck with for that. That said, a lot of people use a scale and like that method. I'd still have to check the dough to see if it was "right", LOL, so it would do me no good to weigh the stuff, but if you think that will work for you and you have space to store the thing, I've seen some that weren't too expensive. Annie

aptosca/Clare- -Be careful how much VWG you add. Too much will make the bread tough, not just give it loft, and it often takes longer to knead and develop the gluten the more you add. -Gluten absorbs moisture like a sponge, so you may also need to use less flour if you add VWG - so go by the "feel" of the dough and aim for a well-hydrated, soft dough. Stiff dry dough will make a dry, squatty loaf. Personally, I think you will get more loft by using King Arthur Baker's Special Dry Milk in an enriched loaf of bread, rather than adding VWG. Additional VWG is generally unnecessary if you use bread flour or even all-purpose flour. If you've never made rye bread before, rye flour in bread dough will cause the dough to be characteristically sticky, and because of this people tend to add too much flour during kneading (especially if the rye flour is 20% of the total amount of flour, or more) to off-set the stickness - a big no-no.... A simple way to solve this problem, if you are making the dough by hand, is by placing the dough in a large freezer zip-lock bag (use a freezer bag because the plastic is thicker and takes more "abuse" from kneading). Place the dough into the freezer-bag, press out as much air as possible before closing, and knead the dough while it's in the bag, from the outside of the bag (a la Bread-In-A-Bag - see link below). You can still adjust the hydration, but this should help keep from adding too much flour because the stickiness from the rye flour won't be sticking to your hands. There are also kneading gloves that can be used for sticky doughs, but a freezer zip-lock bag an easy fix (and probably less expensive). When the dough has been kneaded enough, press the dough into one corner of the bag; open the bag and turn it inside out to get the dough out. BTW - this is one bag you won't want to wash and save ;-). A mistake often made, and why the dough doesn't seem to raise as high as you'd like, is from using the wrong amount of dough for the pan size. This is also the cause of over- or under-proofing. As an example: if you make a recipe that makes 1-1/2-pounds of dough (about 3-cups of flour in the recipe) and place it in a 9x5" pan (which are generally designed to be used for loaves of quick breads), that's the wrong pan for that amount of dough - a standard-size loaf pan is a better choice - 8-1/2x4-1/2". Jumbo pan - 10x4-1/2" - approx. 4-5 c. flour - 2+ pounds of dough Quick Bread Pan - 9x5" - 4 c. flour - 2# dough Standard Loaf - 8-1/2x4-1/2" - 3 c. flour - 1-1/2# dough Medium Loaf - 7-1/2x3-1/2" - 2-1/2 c. flour - 1# dough Small Loaf - 5-3/4x3-3/4" - 1-1/2 c. flour - 8 oz. dough Here is a link that might be useful: Easy Yeast Breads In a Bag