1. the temperature of the kitchen, the dough, and your hands when kneading all have an effect on the rising time of the dough; also, how much yeast was used.

2. mostly you are just wasting your time by kneading too much; 15 minutes by hand or 5-8 minutes by machine mixer using a dough hook is usually sufficient.

These are JMHO.....YMMV (your mileage may vary)
Teresa

Congratulations on the challah! I'm sure I'd love it...are you sharing your recipe? You're probably a natural bread baker, but didn't know it.

I know a slower rise (which would be in my very cool kitchen) is supposed to develop flavors, but I usually use the proofing feature in my oven, just to get it done. Sometimes if I want the bread early the next day, overnight in the fridge is just as easy, so it depends on when I want it. I find it also sometimes depends on the type of flour used. (Heavier flours for me sometimes take longer. FWIW) Now that you know what ''feels right'', I always think that's the best indicator.

Enjoy your foray into bread baking; you're going to have fun.

Congrats on entering the world of home-made challah, I've been making my own pretty much weekly for a few years now. We all can tell the difference when I have to buy it from the store due to time restrictions - I need to have my whole morning schedule blocked off because I can't predict rising times.

If you look on my clippings, you will find instructions from cloud_swift for making six stranders. There are a few youtube instructions also.

I'm new at this too and I found that my kitchen is so cool that it always takes bread longer to rise than stated. That may be a possiblity for you as well.

Jessy, I made that six strand challah and it was a thing of beauty! It almost made me look like I knew what I was doing :-)

Carol

claire_de_luna, if you don't mind, what is a "proofing feature"?

Ain't that the truth Carol? Just don't

I also think your kitchen may have been too cool, or perhaps you had a draft. Two ways to get around that would be to run your dishwasher for 5 minutes and then TURN IT OFF (emphasized - we don't need clean dough!) and then set your dough in there to rise. The warm, moist environment is just what the bread needs. Or if you're not using your microwave, you can boil a cup of water in there, and then shut your bread dough up in the microwave -- accomplishes the same thing -- keeps it warm and moist and away from drafts.

As far as the kneading, after teaching several of my friends to make bread, it is my observation that "newbies" tend to over-knead the dough thinking that it has to be well kneaded. Just remember, as soon as you hit "smooth and elastic", you're done. It may still feel a bit "sticky" but that's OK. It should come out feeling slightly sticky, or at least moist. If it feels "dry", you've added too much flour.

Happy Baking, and welcome to the club! MacThayer

Linnea, one my ovens (Gaggenau, and the one I use most for baking), has a lot of different settings, one of which is for ''proofing''. I can set it to 100 degrees F, and it's really nice for rising dough. Because it works so well, I find myself using it most of the time, especially as my kitchen is so cool during these winter months.

You can do the same in your oven if you have a pilot light and it stays warm, or if you use a low setting on a warming drawer. Years ago, I used to put my dough on top of the dryer on laundry day and the moist air really helped things along. Anything will do as long as it's not too hot; I've even heard of some who've used a heating pad.

I was far too often disappointed with any bread other than Challah that I made. I had particular problems with bread recipes that called for any other flour but white.

Then I learned that many whole-grain flours are not as high in gluten as white, and adding a small amount of gluten flour was the answer...this after years of recipes that said nothing about it.

Just recently, I made a decent French loaf for the first time. It was the first recipe I had encountered that called for the dough to be set to rise in a cool spot, not above 68 degrees. "At least" three hours for the first rising. Then another 1 1/2 -2 hrs for the second, and yet a third rising of an hour or so.

Then someone in this forum (I can't remember who, I'm sorry and thank you whoever you were!) told me that most breads can benefit from cooler/slower rising. So I made a mixed-flour potato bread following that idea, and it turned out wonderfully. The first loaf I've made that could actually be used to make sliced-bread sandwiches.

Dunno what I'm going to do when Summer comes. :D

For some just having the light on in your oven helps.

Jessy, that is too funny. But, silly me, I love the way that one turned out.. lol. Very artistic. lol.

Do any of you uses the 5min a day challah? I just found that recipe online and plan to make it soon.

I always have to hunt for a good place to let mine raise or just let it raise slow because I keep the heat on 62-64 in the daytime and down to 60 at night. Add that to a really old drafty house and I've used many of the above suggestions.

Jessy, that is funny and certainly looks like some of my efforts at making bread. It still looks tasty, and as coconut-nj says, very "artistic".

Carol

Thanks for all the replies!! It definitely renews my confidence and tells me I didn't do anything wrong.

Claire, I'm going to check the Proof feature on my oven... I Have a Proof button but didn't know what it was for! (I COULDA read the instructions but who wants to do THAT?) LOL, I will read them now.

Jessy, great loaf! I have yet to attempt a six braid but I will soon! I'll be happy if it turns out looking half as good as yours!

MacThayer, yes! Smooth and elastic. That's what it was. So I got it right - wheeeeee!!!!!

Here's my recipe for challah. This was from the person I took a 3 hour morning class from. She handed us a recipe with a lot of detailed instructions then said, oh but I don't actually follow the recipe word for word, I do it THIS way. I wrote down the notes of how she does it, then did it that way and it came out great.

Vanilla Challah

8 cups bread flour (may need to up to a cup more)
2 packages rapid-rise yeast
2 ½ cups warm water
½ tsp baking powder
1 ½ tsp vanilla extract
1 Tbsp salt
4 large eggs
¾ cup oil
¾ cup sugar or vanilla sugar
mixed sugar (or vanilla sugar) and cinnamon for rolling

Mix yeast, warm water and sugar. Put into mixer. Add oil. Add 3 eggs, vanilla. Add flour/baking powder a little at a time. Let the mixer knead it. Shape into a ball and cover. Let it rise 20 minutes. Knead 5 minutes. Cover again and let rise 30 minutes. Knead briefly. Use a knife to separate into two even pieces. Separate each piece into three pieces which you roll into long "ropes". Roll each rope in the cinnamon/sugar mixture for thorough coating. Braid the ropes (each three ropes braids into one loaf). Put on pan on parchment paper and cover. Rise for one hour or till itÂs puffed up to double in size. Brush top thoroughly (get in all the "nooks & crannies") with the 4th egg. Sprinkle with sugar or cinnamon sugar. Bake at 325 35 minutes (if you make two loaves) or about an hour if you use the whole dough to make one loaf.

Forgot to say, she also gave us a recipe for regular challah, but it uses a whole 5# bag of flour and makes like 8 loaves (IIRC). EEk!! It's good for making a bunch of loaves and freezing them I suppose but it just seemed like too much to make at one time (for me).

May, just cut the recipe in half if you really want to try that one. it looks really good, I've copied and pasted, thanks.

I agree with teresa, rise has a lot to do with temperature of your hands, temperature of the room while rising, drafts, yeast. My thermostat never goes above 55 in the winter, usually it's at 50, so I normally make bread while I have the dishwasher, the dryer and the oven all going, it makes the kitchen a bit warmer, LOL. Still, my honey wheat didn't rise very well at all a couple of days ago and my kitchen is cold enough that I can't start a sourdough starter this time of year.

I have some bread that I let rise slowly in the cool kitchen and sometimes I'm in a hurry and put it in a warm place to rise more quickly (like on a heating pad). I have some recipes that let me refrigerate dough overnight. The slow rise does add a different flavor, it's especially nice for things like sourdough, but I like the yeasty flavor of white bread when it rises quickly. it's all what you like.

Grandma taught me to bake bread when I was 7 because she said bread couldn't be hurt by overhandling, that no matter how much I did to it, it would be OK. It's just bread. I think she was right, you can't really overwork bread and do lasting damage.

You can, however, let it rise too long and then it "over proofs" and collapses. Ask me how I know. (grin)

Annie

WOW, Annie, you keep your house cool! I thought I did at 66-68 degrees, but I can see I don't! Of course when we lived in our farmhouse, we could see our breath in the bedroom, but that was another lifetime ago. (I did have quite the woolies and underwear collection. I'm still using some of the men's wool stockings to hang by the fireplace at Christmas.)

May, thanks for the recipe. I may have to try my hand at challah. I've never made it before, so it will be an experiment.

This recipe for vanilla challah is really good and gets rave reviews. When you roll the braids in the cinnamon sugar mixture and then braid, it distributes the cinn/sug throughout the bread for a really nice flavor.

Bread doesn't rise by the clock....but by it's own timer.
I always discount recipes that say "let rise for one hour then bake".
Ya ready for this? I have been known to make "challah" with butter instead of oil!...I know...shikse Challah!
Linda C

I always discount recipes that say "let rise for one hour then bake".

Well, it said 1 to 1.5 hours till doubled in size... that's how I knew 1.5 hrs weren't enough. I just figured since they gave me a range in time, that there might be a reason that it went outside the range. I just know now that the time given is more of a guideline and that many factors can affect it.