The instructions are not very clear and I think that was one of my problems when trying to get a SD starter going.

Bubbling is good and I would not worry about the doubling part but you can let it go for another day before refreshing.

Finally, I just started doing this and it seems to work.

About every 2-3 days discard half the starter and refresh with 1/2 c. rye flour and 1/2 c. bottled spring water.

Make sure that the starter is well mixed. Carol suggested using a whisk and that is what I use and just beat the heck out of it.

Return to jar, let rise and then I put it in the frig for a few days. Then take it out, discard half and add 1/2 c. rye flour and 1/2 c. spring water. Repeat the whisk and rise part. Then return to the frig.

After feeding with rye flour 4-5 times you can start adding white flour. If you're still not getting at least a triple rise try adding some pineapple juice. The pineapple juice, suggested by Grainlady, really gets the starter bubbling.

Michelle

Thanks Michelle but my brain is not working with me on this! LOL

I like the idea of just tossing half and refreshing every few days....my head can get around that! What I am unclear about is when do you start to refrigerate and refresh vs leave at the 70-75 degree range and refresh?

Well after refreshing, I leave mine out, in room temp, to bubble and rise. The rising takes any where from 8 to 12 hours. When it deflates and returns to the original amount I put it in the frig for at least 2 days sometimes 3 before refreshing again.

So the starter is only at room temp for the time it is rising and falling. But the time of 8-12 hours is only an estimate. Your starter will be unique to your geographical area and may rise faster then 8-12 hours or maybe slower. The key is when it rises AND then deflates to the original form, now it is time to refrigerate.

When the starter is in the frig it is starving, so when you do refresh, you will get a good rise and it will be a stronger starter.

But this is my experience and my starter. Your starter will be completely different due to the wild yeasts in your area. Hopefully, it's better then my wild yeasts! My wild yeast is very picky. When it begins the finicky stage I just starve it longer in the refrigerator and refresh with rye flour and pineapple juice and then it comes around.

Michelle

A starter is not an exact science....it depends on many things....
I always feed my starter before I refrigerate it...I don't want it going hingry...
The thing is to find the wild yeast and then provide an enviornment for it to grow in. Ir grows faster when warm and slower when cold...also some yeasats grow faster at certain temperatures and at certain PH's.
Linda C....who starved her starter to death...and is about to begin anew.

What's hingry?

yeasats isn't this related to the Sasquatch, Bigfoot or Yeti thing?

LOL!!!

Michelle

forgive me for not knowing how to trace this thread back to its start ...but...i'd like the original recipe for this starter! If you don't mind, would someone please provide soo i can follow from there? Thanks!

No forgiveness needed Cecilia! Here are the original instructions. I find them to be rather convoluted but I'm giving it a go!

As posted by Ann T.........

Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table

Sourdough starter - Amy's bread
===============================

copied from: http://countrylife.net/pages/recipes/672.html

Amy Scherber's Sourdough Starter

RYE STARTER
From AMY'S BREAD, copyrighted.

Amy's bread

This starter is begun with rye flour because rye just LOVES to ferment and is an easier starter to get going than a wheat starter. When I first made it, it had a bubble or two within a couple hours.

The procedure is to start it with rye flour, then transform it by changing what you feed it. The original rye will dilute to nothing over time and you'll end up with a white flour (or whatever other grain you choose, it could be whole wheat or pumpermickel, or you could leave it as a rye starter) and water based starter, but it had the advantage of beginning it's life from highly fermentable rye flour.

Start it with organic rye flour and spring water. Once you have it going well you can switch to all-purpose white (or other) flour as you choose. The use of spring water is recommended for maintenance, however, as tap water may contain elements (such as chlorine) which may be detrimental to the health of your starter. I also recommend that you use a container that you can mark the volume levels of starter each time, so that you will know when it has doubled. Use a marking pen or tape or any other means to indicate on the container the starter levels each time you feed.

Phase 1 - Combine 2 oz organic rye flour (room temp) with 4 oz spring water in a clear container. The batter should be about the consistency of very thick pancake batter, add more water or flour if necessary. Cover & let it sit for 36 - 48 hours at 75 - 77 degrees (a little cooler is okay but over 80 you will incubate the wrong kind of bacteria and your culture will have an unpleasant bitter taste). You should start to see tiny bubbles forming after about 24 hours. By the time it has doubled, there will be a noticeable network of small bubbles throughout the batter & it will be foaming & bubbling on top. (If the batter has not doubled within 48 hours, feed with 2 oz water & 2 oz flour (add more of either if necessary for the consistency) and let it sit another 24 hours or until you see some definite activity.)

Phase 2 - Stir the culture down, notice how soupy it's become. The batter should have a noticeable sour smell & a mildly tangy taste at this point. Add 2 oz water & 2 oz flour and stir vigorously until well-combined. Let it sit for 12 hours. It should be showing a fair amount of activity at this point. You should see lots of foaming & bubbling through the sides as well as on the top. Don't be concerned if the culture deflates & loses volume. This means the yeast has exhausted its food supply, but it will continue to increase in acidity. Don't worry if your culture isn't dramatically active yet. As long as there is some noticeable activity going on and the mixture smells & tastes sour, you're on the right track.

Phase 3 - The culture should now have a pronounced, sour, fruity taste and smell, it should not taste musty or bitter (if it does, discard and start again, paying close attention to the temp of the culture at all times). Now you can start "transforming" it into a white (or other) flour based starter. Use 6 oz of the starter, add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously. Let it sit for 12 hrs at 75 - 77 degrees F.

Refresh it again, setting up a maintenance level of 12 oz of starter. This will be your "mother" starter that you use to build the sourdough starters/sponges needed in individual recipes.

Each time you take part of the mother out to build a starter, you must refresh it with equal weights of flour and water to bring it back up to its maintenance level.

To maintain - Use 6 oz of the mother culture (discard the rest), add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously, let it sit at room temp until doubled in volume.

A strong mother will double in 8-12 hours. If yours doesn't do that, let it continue to sit out until it has a nice tangy taste and smell; discard all but 6 oz and repeat this procedure. Repeat this procedure as many times as necessary until the mother doubles within 8-12 hrs. It may take several days. Don't get discouraged, it's worth the effort.

To use for recipes - Combine 1/2 c (5 oz) Mother from the refrigerator, add 3 oz flour and 2.5 oz warm water (85 - 90 degrees). The mixture will be stiffer than the mother. Let it sit, covered, until doubled in volume (if it doesn't do so go back to maintenance procedure). When the starter has doubled, it is ready to use in a recipe. Measure the amount needed and discard any that remains.

What I do is similar to what Linda C suggests - I always feed the starter before putting it back in the fridge. Also, I usually don't let my starter collapse - though occasionally it happens because I don't get to it in time.

My usual routine (once the starter is established the first time - I started my original one with a bit of yeast so I don't know much about starting it from scratch with wild yeasts - but I'm sure mine has been colonized by the wild ones by now):
Take the starter out of the fridge and feed it.
Let it rise until doubled (or almost doubled) - usually the first rise out of the fridge takes hours and at first it doesn't seem to be doing much.
Feed it again and let rise until (almost) doubled - now that the yeasty beasties have woken up this one happens much more quickly.
Feed a third time and take about 1/4 cup and put it back in the fridge. Let the rest rise until (almost) doubled and use to bake bread.

I try to do this at least every 2 weeks though occasionally I have gone a bit longer. If going longer, it helps to stir a bit of flour and water into what is in the fridge to give the yeast some food - it will continue to be active in the fridge though at a much slower pace than at room temp.

Sharon, I pretty much follow Amy's recipe at least when it comes to measurements. When I feed my starter, I weigh out 6 ounces and then add 3 ounces of rye or white flour and three ounces of spring water. I use a scale for this. Or if I'm only feeding 4 ounces of starter then I feed it with 2 ounces of water and 2 ounces of flour. The water and the flour are suppose to equal the same amount as the starter.

A year ago when I first grew my starter, I use to feed it on a fairly regular basis, but only because I was baking more often. But now I only feed it when I know that I am going to bake. In fact, I fed my starter today and it hadn't been fed in at least 6 weeks, maybe 8. I fed it this morning and it is almost doubled. I'm going to make bread in the morning. I'll use half the starter and feed the other half again before putting it back in the fridge. So you really don't need to toss and feed as often as every couple of days.

Ann

I'm OK with the feeding rules once I have the starter going. It's the getting it going phase that is perplexing.

I started the starter (did I just say that?!) Friday at noon. Phase one, from scratch, just flour and water sitting on the counter under some indirect lighting so the temp is about right ie 75 degrees, may be a bit cooler.

As of noon today it was very active but had not doubled, not even close.

I decided to go the next step anyway and added flour and water. It has been sitting on the counter for 13 hours now and is bubbling but still no change in volume.

My understanding is that I have to do this every 12 hours for 8-10 days and then I can refrigerate and feed on a maintenance basis. My dilemma is that I am not getting a rise in this start up phase. Lots of bubbles but no rise.

Have I got it wrong?

Sharon, I think that you should have waited for it to double before moving on to the next step. Even though you had a lot of activity with it bubbling, it is important for it to double. If it hadn't doubled then according to the instructions you need to feed it again with 2 ounces of the spring water and two more ounces of rye flour. After another 12 to 24 hours you should see it doubling. Then move on to the next step.

If I were you, I would just leave it alone for another 12 to 24 hours and see if it won't double for you now. And then proceed to the next step.

Once you have finished step three you should have a very active and strong starter. That is when you divide the starter and feed one half with rye and the other half with white to create two different starters. Let them double and then they are ready to use. Just refrigerate it until you are ready to make a loaf of sour dough.

When I'm ready to make sour dough bread, I take the mother out of the fridge, measure out 3 ounces, feed with water and rye and leave to double. And once it has doubled I proceed to make bread. I pour the remaining amount of starter into a clean container and feed it again and once it has doubled I put it back in the fridge until next time.

I did not fed my original starter every 12 hours for 8 to 10 days.

Ann

Sharon, I fed my starter again last night and used some of it today to make sour dough rye.

I also fed two more starters before going to bed last night. Both of them have almost doubled.

The third starter is what was left of the one I used in todays bread, so I fed it again this morning. Once all three of these have doubled they will go into the fridge until the next time I make bread.

Because I hadn't fed any of these recently, I fed them all with organic rye flour. I will feed one of them with white bread flour the next time they need to be fed. I like to maintain both a white and a rye starter.

I am not a dense person...OK maybe I am when flour is involved. As I said I think I get how to use and maintain a starter but getting it started in the first place ...no refrigeration ...is perplexing. I find Amy's instructions very poorly written, convoluted and ambiguous.

This morning there was still no noticeable rise but I decided to measure out the 6 oz and add 3 oz each of flour and water any way.

Well the damn thing doubled, even more than doubled in 3 hours! So now what? According to Amy I should

" Phase 3 - The culture should now have a pronounced, sour, fruity taste and smell, it should not taste musty or bitter (if it does, discard and start again, paying close attention to the temp of the culture at all times).

I THINK THIS WHERE I AM..........

Now you can start "transforming" it into a white (or other) flour based starter. Use 6 oz of the starter, add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously. Let it sit for 12 hrs at 75 - 77 degrees F

OK I'M STILL BUILDING IT.....SO HOW LONG DO I DO THIS?

Refresh it again, setting up a maintenance level of 12 oz of starter. This will be your "mother" starter that you use to build the sourdough starters/sponges needed in individual recipes.

I THINK THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO USING THE DAMN STUFF NOT MAKING THE ORIGINAL MOTHER

Each time you take part of the mother out to build a starter, you must refresh it with equal weights of flour and water to bring it back up to its maintenance level.

AGAIN I THINK THIS ABOUT MAINTAINING THE MOTHER

To maintain - Use 6 oz of the mother culture (discard the rest), add 3 oz water & 3 oz flour, stir vigorously, let it sit at room temp until doubled in volume.

NOW WHAT'S THIS ABOUT. MAINTAINING THE MOTHER OR BUILDING THE MOTHER ?

A strong mother will double in 8-12 hours. If yours doesn't do that, let it continue to sit out until it has a nice tangy taste and smell; discard all but 6 oz and repeat this procedure. Repeat this procedure as many times as necessary until the mother doubles within 8-12 hrs. It may take several days. Don't get discouraged, it's worth the effort.

I'm not discouraged but I sure am frustrated.

I think the whole thing is way simpler than Amy says....

I'm thinking that all I need to do to "start my starter" is do the " feed, double, reduce to 6 oz, feed and double" routine a few times until I have a very busy mother then put it in the fridge and every once in a while use some, keep 4-6 oz, feed, double and refrigerate.

Congratulations Sharon. Sounds like you have a very strong starter. I know that it was frustrating, but now that you have your starter, you can keep it going for years. And it is 100% natural. No yeast or other additives.

Now you can start and maintain both a rye and a white starter if you want. If your starters are strong they will probably double in 4 to 6 hours.

I usually plan the night before I want to make sourdough bread. I take the starter out of the fridge and give it a good stir. Then I measure out 4 ounces and feed it with 2 ounces of spring water and two ounces of rye and let it double overnight. The starter left in the container also gets measured and feed and after it has doubled it goes back into the fridge for the next time. As I mentioned earlier, I hadn't feed my starters since before I moved and they are still going strong. The one I feed this morning, doubled in less than 3 hours.

Can't wait to see the wonderful breads you are going to make.

Ann

Congrats on your starter finally starting Sharon! I'll buy the first round after all of that!!

I'm ready to take this on, I think. Spring Water, is this just bottled water or is it labled Spring Water? I'm still in shock with the choice of water offered in the stores these days.

The 75 - 77 degree temp??? I never tried this at the cabin as it was very drafty and maintaining that kind of steady temp was a joke. Having said that, and moving to a newer home, I never keep my place at that temp unless it is spring and early summmer down here and the windows are open and the humidity is low...not likely..lol!

I do good with yeast breads reguardless of the conditions....just wondering about this starter recipe. Also, does this make everything have the sour taste to it? I love a good sourdough bread but it is not something I want with all of my bread.

David

Maartje gave me some sourdough starter yesterday, as well was some frogs, a water lily, and some mosquito fish. They are having their pond redone professionally and had to empty everything out. The sourdough starter was something she made by accident, and when she asked me if I wanted some, I said of course. I'm thinking now that I could have started my own, if it is so easy that she did it by accident. For some reason, I thought it was necessary to use grapes to make sourdough, and I can't remember where I got that idea.

The four leopard frogs are very happy in my pond and have already started laying eggs. Maartje said she didn't know how they got into her pond, and so I guess they are wild. I told her she can have them back when their pond is finished, but Matthew will have to catch them.

Lars