hello all : Been looking at this page for a while - and was inspired to try something I read - a wild yeast captured from Caraway seeds. After 5 days and a few additions of my own - think I have a live sponge - Started with soaking FRONTIERS ORGANIC Caraway seeds ( I read this - dont remember what site - said organic would be sun dried as to heat dried) in some water in jar - dash of flour - not really sure why next morning drained seeds , added 1/2 of flour closed cap of jar and shook to mix - within 1 hr I had froth - next day still frothy - so put into bigger jar and added 1/2 flour and water - shook to mix - cracked lid for outgas - very frothy and smelled like fermentation next day less froth strong fermentation smell - so added some apple cider vinegar from a dropper I was cleaning out - secured cap and shook - cracked lid for outgas - next day, little movement but lots of hooch and strong fermentation smell - so I added more vinegar , did the mixing etc... this morning I was making bread with yeast - decided to play with the concoction - used up organic fruit juice sweetened apricot fruit jam jar took 1/2 of the mix I started - just shook that to mix and cracked the lid - could smell a touch of vinegar in the mix - the main jar I just added some home stone ground white winter wheat flour - maybe 2 tablespoons and mixed with wooded spatula I mixed the yeast dough I had started last nite -now thick like pancake batter - just checked it a moment ago and appears to be live and starting to bubble I shall report back tomorrow with more result - thought those might be interested in my experiment cheers:

This looks to be #150, so I'll start another sourdough thread with pie segue. :) Cathy, I know the liberated feeling you're talking about! I had it when I started these experiments with the discard. I do as I please with most baking recipes, usually to success. I don't have Grainlady's technical knowledge nor Ann's experience and expertise, but I know that if you control the basics, it'll come out. My mother's challah is so tetchy, however, that controlling it is enough without messing with it. A cousin did that when I was young, and tried using it as a base recipe for other breads, and they were breads, but I didn't really like them. You have to know how to not handle the challah (no typos there) to make it work out right. Add to that the old miseries of using cake yeast and I never messed with yeast dough before. I really liked the figgy loaf! Worrying about keeping the yeast alive rather than if I was going to ruin the bread was great. But that was one of those very soupy things, and if I try that again, I'll use less water/more flour. :) It's interesting that so many people think more hydration means lighter bread and more holes! That's the opposite to what I've experienced so far. Leader, like the ciabatta recipe, works the dough and develops the gluten. Controlled hydration seems to work better for me, and I definitely think the miche was too wet given how much better it got as it dried out. I had similar issues with the pizza recipe. One of the ones I tried, which was the result of much study in a pizza working group, was something like 90% hydration of whole wheat (though not soupy!). It was a very sticky dough and had to be made in a pan. It was not at all comfortable with toppings, though it was okay par-baked. Totally wrong for me, and it didn't have a good enough baked texture to stick with. It's not like my pizza recipe is low hydration. Just comparatively low. It's around 70% hydration. Cathy, I agree that inhaling pizza of any kind is frightening! Thank goodness for the widespread publicity for the Heimlich Maneuver! The miche is peasanty, as in plain old bread. I'd be happy to make the pain de levain for you! That has much more complexity even though it's mostly white. It's very yummy! The miche isn't as flavorless now, but it's not stand in line worthy, unfortunately. Next time. It was supposed to be record setting heat this weekend, but we're having monsoon influence, instead. Not the actual monsoons, which are farther South, but damp and cooler. Spaghetti and meatballs and ciabatta sounds delicious and decadent right now! (Decadent because two starches--my mother never served bread with pasta.) My favorite way to eat ciabatta, however, is with a goodly layer of good butter and an even thicker layer of powder grated good parmesan. This is the breakfast the Italian stewards on the ocean liner tempted my mother with when she was underfed and ill and returning home. I am not underfed, so I don't indulge, but the slightly salty, slightly sour bread with the sweet butter and salty, umami parm is just amazing. (Okay, I'm not underfed, but I haven't had breakfast...) Standing in line for the ciabatta... The gyros-ish meatloaf came out fine. It would have been better with more fat (who says that?), but the meat that needed using was very lean. I suppose I could have added some butter, but who does that? Not I. It's tasty, though. I didn't go full out on the seasoning (i.e., used the recipe) because I'd never made this recipe before. It could be kicked up a bit, but the flavor is about right. The leanness means I can be generous with the oil and grill some up later. :) No yoghurt sauce since since there are no pita either and my cucumbers and dill both bit it in the fridge. Tomatoes, onions and peppers will be fine. :) Ann, one lesson I learned best from you is to just put things in the fridge. Fermenting yeast things, that is. Just put it in the fridge. It's the most freeing thing I've learned recently. I've read all about it, of course, and the pizza recipe is one that's meant to develop in the fridge, but the way you just whip up a levain and throw it in the fridge until you're ready, or make up some do and go off to work, with instructions to Moe for when to take it out. Of course it's a given that cold retards yeast, but so much of my bread life until now has been about keeping yeast warm and cozy and encouraging it to rise, retarding the rise in the fridge to manage the slow process of sourdough is a revelation. Thank-you! Edited to add link and fix weird typo. This post was edited by plllog on Tue, Aug 5, 14 at 20:51

All these posters have given you good advice and I agree with drying some of the starter in case you happen to lose your "mother" starter. I dry starter every six months or so just so I will always have some put back. Disclaimer: I am not an authority on sourdough, I only advise bakers according to my own experience. And I am sure that other sourdough bakers posting here are giving advice on what they have learned through research and their own experience. But this is what I think can be confusing for newbie sourdough bakers; there is so much information out there on the internet and in books that it can get very confusing. I recommend that newbies follow a single method of activating, feeding, and baking to see if that method works for them. Keep it simple, sweetie! I just don't want anyone to get discouraged by so much conflicting information. Off and on for years I tried to start my own sourdough and it never worked well for me except for my mom's potato flake batter bread recipe that starts with yeast not the wild beasties. Then several years ago I sent off for a proven strain, Carl Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail Sourdough Starter and finally I had success. I now have Sourdough Jack's starter also and I made a whole wheat starter using pineapple juice successfully - so...don't give up! Teresa

Don't know how you are "feeding" but following the guidelines will promote success. You must always discard some starter before feeding it. (Starters are relatively high-maintenance "pets.") For more info, you might try a general search "how to make starter for bread" -- but no quote marks. Or you could go to the Cooking Forum with your questions. Another way to find out is to search "starter from grape leaves" -- but without the quotes. Can also try a related search "starter from grapes" In any case, it will take longer than several days to develop a lively culture. In the meantime, you can begin your starter with grape leaves but must ensure no pesticides used on the plant. Here is a link that might be useful: Cooking Forum This post was edited by jean001a on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 14:31