Hi Lalitha,

It sounds like things are progressing nicely. I'm not sure what will suit your cooking style best, so I'll just tell you my own experience.

I have the Gaggenau combi-steam. I haven't heard that the Miele is available in N. America yet, though it's due. I haven't heard anything about the Thermador. A friend of a friend also has the combi-steam and put it in for all uses, but finds it too much of a chore to clean. It'll be easier for you without any meats, but if you have things that bubble over, again, it can be a pain to clean. It's definitely worth putting a baking sheet on a rack, or better, the solid pan that comes with the oven between something that might bubble over and the drain. The hardest parts to clean are around the drain (especially for things baked on), and the side racks that hold the pans.

I've never tried making a pizza in it. Again, I'd be concerned about the cleaning. I did get a small "pizza stone", which is fairly thin clay that will fit inside for baking crusty breads on, but haven't had a chance to try it yet. The oven is a bit small for pizza even for four people, but if you're not very snobby about it, and you do rectangular, it's probably adequate, and you might even be able to do more than one level.

I usually bake in my big oven, which has direct heat as well as convection. Still, I don't see any reason why you couldn't bake all the things you've listed in the combi-. Convection isn't so good for eggy things like custards and souffles. Some cakes might not like it either, but most should be okay. The cavity of the combi- is front to back, and not very tall, so it's not the easiest to check things by looks as they bake. There is a probe, though I haven't used it.

The combi-steam doesn't have a microwave feature. The only one that I know of that does is the Sharp. That's an entirely different kind of appliance.

My big worry for you is whether you'll have enough oven space for feeding your larger groups. It'll depend entirely on what you want to cook, how it fits, and how many people it'll feed, plus, how hot things have to be, if you'll have warming trays, etc. I think it would be okay for something flat, like lasagna, or any casserole, you could easily have enough for entrees for the whole group.

If you get the Gaggenau, my advice would be to get extras of the 2/3 sheet pans. Other people use half sheets, because they're inexpensive at the restaurant supply, but the 2/3 sheet pans make the most of the oven space. They also have 1/3 sheet pans, so you can put two different things on one level.

Anyway, that's my best case guess about the combi-steam. When I have 2-4 dozen people, I use three ovens, 4-5 burners and a warming drawer, but that's a couple different entrees and lots of vegetables.

I think for anyone who uses a wok many times per week, a dedicated wok burner is a good idea. The problem then is the griddle. For a double burner griddle, gas is also probably better than induction.

I have another option for you to consider: a 30" rangetop, and a portable or modular 240V induction. I love induction, but it seems to me you might do better with more gas.

Re the fridge, from your list, I think you might be happiest with the 36" SZ, but take your platters to the store and figure out which units will fit them. Remember, you can often use a little more space than the actual shelf.

Thanks for your comments Plllog. I went back and read a lot of your other posts about the combi. I think I need to make sure that when I install it, that I can clean it easily (Keep it at or slightly above counterheight). How about one of the GE advantium or Miele Master chef type speed ovens? Would one of those solve my *when I need convection oven only* problems? I actually have a countertop Sharp Micro/Convection above. While it is not the best oven I have used, it is significantly more useful than just a plain old microwave.

I considered a 30" rangetop (culinarian or bluestar) but I really have grown to prefer induction cooking on my portable 1 unit induction (this and the sharp microwave is my remodeling setup). So I think day to day is induction. At anyone time, I might have a pasta boiling, a sauce simmering and want to add a kettle for tea (This is why I need 3 induction hob at least). Davidro1 suggested just getting a 30" induction as it can also be work surface which makes a lot of sense. DH really likes the frameless Wolf. But if I add a wok, I am looking at a massive hood. Maybe there is a way to reduce the profile and noise with some inline blower/ silencer combo.

Fridge --> I am not sure what space organization people find most useful.. 30" single door or 36" french door? Our big space issue is milk storage (wierd I know :). Kid drinks RF, I drink Soy, we use LF for homemade yogurt, DH likes FF, and we also use buttermilk a lot..

Lalitha

The Gaggenau combi-steam and Advantium, which, as you know, I have, can both be used as convection only ovens. Neither has direct heat. I microwave daily but never cook in a microwave. Mostly, melt, defrost, heat certain frozen things, and stuff like that. I used to steam veg in one, but hated it--one of the big reasons for getting the combi-steam.

I think either would satisfy your convection oven only uses, but given your lack of space, I don't think that both would be as useful. I would go for a full on oven if you're going to pair them, and either the speed oven, or the steam oven plus a small microwave. Again, depending on how much stuff you need to fit in the oven. My 30" Advantium holds a lot, and if you need dual duty might work better for your large groups.

I see now where I misread your question about the microwave in my first reply. I think you could make do with just one convection only oven, no matter which it is, if you're good at balancing and planning which gets cooked when. Remember, when you have a fancy microwave or speed oven, when it's doing its oven thing you don't have a microwave available. That doesn't bother me, since the things I use microwaving for aren't things that pop up during feast prep, and it's easy enough to melt some butter or chocolate on the induction.

I'm sorry to ramble. I'm trying to work through the problem and try to imagine what you'll want. Another possibility for entertaining is to have a portable oven that comes out for large groups. My mother always did that for a third oven, with a roaster style one set on the dryer. You could do that with a large countertop oven, like the Breville everyone likes, a roaster oven, or even a catering oven, so long as you have cupboard space outside of the kitchen for it. It's amazing how much you can fit in the large roaster ovens. They're great for baked potatoes, beans of any kind, rewarming casseroles (I've even stacked them), etc.

To answer, finally, I think you can do without the regular oven, but I'd still want it.

I totally get you on the induction. It's just not all that compatible with woks. If your appliance budget is flexible, maybe you can get a demo of the Gaggenau induction wok module. It's scary expensive, but it's supposed to have good results with a wok, and, unlike the dish style ones, lets you use it for other things as well. It's very powerful too. And pricey. Originally, I was going to get that, the two element induction, and the teppan yaki. Then I went in to place the order and found out that there had been a 38% price increase four days before. I got cheap, and jealous of the room they take up (especially the knobs on the apron), and changed to the combo I have now. If I were a great wok cook, rather than kind of pathetic at it (or so I'm told, though the results, while inauthentic, aren't bad), I would have done it. OTOH, if I were a great wok cook, I probably would want to use a favored old wok, rather than the expensive Gaggenau one. I'm not sure how much of the power of the Gagg wok unit is transmitted to the wok, however. The problem with using a wok on mine is that it's not big enough at the bottom to trigger the big power. I assume that the Gagg's price reflects whatever they had to do to get all the power through the stand and into the wok, but it's worth making sure. Even better, find a demo unit with the ring and wok where you can try out using it and see how you like it. Not worth taking a chance on without knowing it'll work for you.

For most family of four cooking, I think you'll be fine with a two element domino on the pot sizes. Most of mine fit well enough. For the soup kettles, I need the bigger ones. If you're serious about pasta, sauce and tea water the easy solution is to supplement with an electric kettle.

Which brings us back to the problem children of the wok and the griddle. The problem is that the wok burners are really not meant for a big griddle. Would you be happy with a new round griddle? If you have that, instead of a rectangular griddle, you could use either the Gagg induction wok or any of the wok modules. Or go wild and get the Capital 24" wok burner. :)

I'm only going to address the "controls on the side" issue.

In the past, I always had regular ranges with the controls on the back. Now I have an induction cooktop with the controls on the front, and I don't like it. Mostly becuase it means my pots and pans are farther back than I'm use to. I pulled my cooktop as far forward in the cabinet as possible, and still feel the pans are too far back to easily look into. I figure if I'm ever in the market for a new cooktop, if having the controls on the side bring the hobs farther for it, I'll seriously consider that option.

Though the one drawback mihgt be how quick I can change the temps with them in the front - only a problem if I've got an immenent boil over. At least with induciton, it's not that big a deal if I do!

plllog -- thanks for thinking through this. I feel better about not having a full oven. I don't really have space for portables, I will just change my menu to avoid appliance conflict :) Looks like, I am also better off keeping with the same brand to be able to install units closer together. So I am leaning towards gagg varios or wolf 30" frameless with multifunction wok gas unit. (Have to factor in the bigass hood now). I have not looked at Miele. I am not able to see it installed anywhere in sf bay area where I live. I am planning to go to purcell murray showroom to try out the gagg though. The round griddle is plenty good for me. what brand is it? Gagg wok.. yikes! I would probably contribute enough additional revenue to germany to make a dent in the greek debt:)

Macy baby --> good point on the side controls. I had not considered the use case correctly. I am short so leaning in too far to peer into the pot is preferably avoided.

Don't these people have the Miele combisets?

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Purcell Murray are terrific. Have fun there!

That particular round griddle in the previous message is Le Creuset cast iron.

I kind of lust for the Demeyere which is seven ply stainless:

There are any number of these things on the market in all price points and materials. I also think a paella might work really well. :)

plllog wrote: "I think for anyone who uses a wok many times per week, a dedicated wok burner is a good idea. The problem then is the griddle. For a double burner griddle, gas is also probably better than induction."

Agree with the first sentence; disagree with the second. The LG LCE30845 30" induction cooktop has a three-element solution (the two normally independent left side 7" round burners, with a third bridge element in between that is activated only for the double-burner operation) designed especially for double-burner griddles, and LG even supplies a double-burner griddle with the cooktop. [Note: the LG-supplied griddle is made of mirror polished stainless steel, but the alloy is not especially hard, and will be marred by the spatula the first time you flip a hamburger on it. The surface burnishing does not affect function, but if a mirror-like surface is important to you, fuhgeddaboudit.]

Update: I did it and hope I did not pay too much :) :(( I just bought a 24" Gagg Combi/ steam.. My first ever appliance purchase. Actually purchased it off a guy on craigslist whose wife decided to go for a 30" standard oven instead.. Paid $1200 for the oven with all the parts, the trays, the manuals etc..

Now for the rest. I will be in Germany on a business trip in a few weeks and am seriously thinking of lugging back a 24" Gagg induction. The 30" induction seems to dramatically increase the hood sizing.. and I am still trying to squeeze in the wok gas unit. Not much feedback on the Kuppersbusch 24".

Lalitha

Congratulations! Do see if you can double box the induction. The carton mine came in got really thrashed in handling. Lugging it home should be pretty easy. :) bit of advice? See if you can arrange the purchase before you leave home so that you can just go to the store and pick it up.

Ah.. that is a smart idea.. I will see if any of my german colleagues can help with the *ordering before* part. Any input on the potential airport/customs issues in Frankfurt or California?
As an aside, is the price I paid for the combi reasonable you think?

I bought the gagg combi-steam oven last year and paid almost 4 times as much - and that was for the demo model from the appliance store! Mind you, I am in Canada where all appliances cost more.

You got an excellent bargain on the oven. Do call Gaggenau and see if they'll honor the warranty. Congrats!

Mine was FedEx'd from England. I think it was $70 U.S. duty, plus $5 for FedEx to handle the paperwork. Since you'll be carrying yours as luggage, you should be paying (if it hasn't changed) according to the following equation, with the price in U.S. dollars of your cooktop being X: duty=.03(X-800) That should be a lot less than import duty. That is, assuming that there isn't special duty on hand carried electronics or some such. If there's VAT in Germany, ask the store if you can have it waived since you're taking it out of the country.

I don't know if you've seen the caveats. For your self-imported cooktop, you should get a letter from your insurance company saying that they know it's European rather than UL approved and that that doesn't affect your policy (mine said so long as it was installed by a licensed electrician). Also, you should make sure your building codes don't specify UL. If they do, you'll need a waiver. The Euro certification is just as good as UL, but you want to make sure that you have all the bases covered so they can't use a technicality to weasel out of the help you'd be given if there's a fire or something (like from a lightning strike). I'm also in California but local codes and inspectors vary.

Do check with the airlines about the measurements they allow as well. It should be fine. My cooktop would fit, with its original box, into my old large pullman suitcase. I'm not sure about the newer ones, but it's the three dimensions added together they go by, with a maximum diagonal, so I think that part will be fine. Actually, if you have an old large pullman case, you might consider taking it, with some old towels or rags, and bring home the cooktop in the case, with the cloth for padding, instead of having to get an outer box and peanuts. Worse comes to worst, you can always send it FedEx. :)

Or DHL. And either FedEx or DHL should be able to insure it whereas the airlines probably won't.