What kind of contract do you have?

what do you mean "what kind"? we've put in about $500k to this point. the electrical & rough plumbing are in and they are about to put on the siding.

What I would suggest to do is have a discussion with the builder. Tell him what your feelings are and ask why the situation is occurring. If you are not satisfied by the answers and the solution depending on the type of contract that you have you can terminate the relationship. Remember builders are people too, there could be something going on that is completely seperate from your situation. By the type of contract you have, there are many different types out there. If you plan to terminate the relationship have a lawyer read the document to find out any possible legal ramifications for yourself. M

I could be wrong. But this sounds like a fixed priced contract to which the OP is making changes and upgrades and expects the builder to supply them for only the extra cost being charged the builder. That's why the suppliers can't give exact figures, because they don't know what the builder will mark them up for.

As a builder I had exactly this situation years ago when I was younger and naive. After foolishly dealing with expensive change after change for free, I learned to tell the suppliers and trades that pricing is between the builder and the client, not the middlemen.

worthy...i appreciate that, however, we are entitled to the same quality/costs that were put into the other house and we pay for any upgrades. how can i make an informed decision about what kind of bathroom tile i want etc. if i have no idea what kind of costs i'm dealing with? he won't even let the saleslady at porcelanosa tell me how much my tile choices cost.

we are entitled to the same quality/costs that were put into the other house and we pay for any upgrades.

The contract language should probably spell that out with a maximum per sq. ft. retail cost on such things as floor coverings. Again, the retailers (or installers or other trades) don't know what your arrangement with the builder is, so they don't want to mislead you.

It may have been that the builder didn't expect you to have many "extras", so he didn't set out a set formula for charging you for them. It certainly would have been a better practice for you to have set it out beforehand, as in a cost-plus contract.

we are entitled to the same quality/costs that were put into the other house and we pay for any upgrades.

The contract language should probably spell that out with a maximum per sq. ft. retail cost on such things as floor coverings. Again, the retailers (or installers or other trades) don't know what your arrangement with the builder is, so they don't want to mislead you.

It may have been that the builder didn't expect you to have many "extras", so he didn't set out a set formula for charging you for them. It certainly would have been a better practice for you to have set it out beforehand, as in a cost-plus contract.

What you can do usually depends on the precise wording of your contract. I don't know what anyone can tell you without that knowledge.

Perhaps you can leave the additional work undone and hire someone else to do it later.

Perhaps you should consult a lawyer or an architect.

I do find the whole process very tedious. We have a cost plus contract. Our budget has certain allowances for selections. So I go to pick tile, the tile lady doesn't tell me how much any of it costs? It's my money!!! How the hell am I supposed to pick tile if I don't know how much it costs? So I pick it all out-spend the whole afternoon; they send a bid to my builder, he forwards it to me. That is why I trust my builder, he's very open with the information he gets from venders. He gives us a copy of everything. It's one of the advantages of cost plus.. Then I realize, I'm over budget and then I have to go back and reselect everything. Waste of my time.

Our contract is fixed price with allowances. Our builders approach is that changes in things like tile or lighting fixtures that don't change the work involved for him, are no issue- we are paying the difference in the cost of material. Obviously, if we make a change that results in more labor, this would be considered a change order to be negotiated as everything else was sorted. As an example, if we change from a simple, tiled backsplash in the kitchen to one that has much more elaborate patterns and an increased time to install, then I'd expect the builder to ask for a change order to cover this.

To the OP, sounds like a discussion with the builder would make sense- for some areas, it would seem that a process could be worked out to at least help you understand the relative differences in the choices you're looking at? This could be done in a way to preserve the approach this builder seems to have with his suppliers but give you some information to help with your decisions? Maybe it's time to ask the builder to meet you at the tile store to make some progress?

Our builders approach is that changes in things like tile or lighting fixtures that don't change the work involved for him, are no issue- we are paying the difference in the cost of material.

As a builder, I markup changes/upgrades to cover the added risk from loss, potential mixups and aggravation.. More expensive items are obviously more expensive to replace should they get damaged or "wander" offsite while I'm building; they're often more delicate too. Just one tiny chip on an $800 bidet, for instance, turns it into scrap. Or a $250 credit to the buyer if they notice.

In the midst of building another home, I overlooked that the buyer had changed the laundry cabinet doors from one trim to another. Chalk up another hidden cost to me with no offsetting profit. I dragged the first set of doors around for 20 years hoping for another way to use them. Never happened.

When we were picking items and could get no cost on them it was driving me crazy. Finally we came up with a plan. We picked a few that we liked and asked the sales man which was cheapest, and we went with that, or if we really liked one thing we'd say is this a lot more than the average items? He could tell us their price relative to each other, even if he couldn't tell us their price. It still really bugged me, but it was better than nothing.

I too found not knowing the cost of things to be very frustrating. I also found that the uncertainty caused me to cut corners in some places I now regret cutting corners.

Totally Confused

There is no reason not to trust your builder. That's just how it is done. I found it frustrating not knowing the cost of things directly. When I choose finishings my builder forwards the quote from the suppliers. When picking out tile just ask for the full retail price and take 20% (usually builder pricing). It does depend on your contract. For things like built-ins, take down your cabinet makers' number and when your project is complete, call him up for a bid. Remember he is working for the builder right now and wants to keep his job.

Just my 2 cents. When I built, I knew each allowance for each item. That way I picked out where I needed to stay in price, and where I could upgrade.
I wasn't charged anything for putting in the upgrades such as better kitchen cabinets, as it doesn't take any more time to put a cabinet with a flush door in than it takes to put a cabinet in with an arched door. Same with light fixtures, door handles, etc. I just didn't make any changes to the layout of the cabinets, such as putting in a desk where a base cabinet would have been.
You have every right to know what the cost difference is with a upgrade, but if you are doing it last minute instead of early on, you might be interfering in what he has already ordered/bought. JMO

"As a builder, I markup changes/upgrades to cover the added risk from loss, potential mixups and aggravation."

Our builder has obviously found a different way to deal with this but we like the approach and it was a consideration when deciding who to work with.

Get the manufacturer, name etc of builder's tile, go online or another store and price it out, same with the upgrade you want. There may be small differences in prices from various vendors but you'll get a ballpark figure to work with.
Tile layout and patterns will cost more in labor if different from spec house.
It would be a lot easier and better all around if you could speak with your builder about this dilemma.
Request the allowance $ of tile/flooring, lighting hardware, plumbing fixtures, cabinets etc.
For anything over his spec house, cost allowance suggest that you'll pay the vendor. (I would be wary of paying upgrade overage to the builder as, depending on your contract, you'll be paying additional $ in total cost profit).

"As a builder, I markup changes/upgrades to cover the added risk from loss, potential mixups and aggravation."

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. You can build a 3000 sq foot house for 300K and you can build a 3000 sq foot house for 1 million. In a cost plus contract, you are already getting paid a lot more to build the one million dollar house. That should be compensation enough to deal with all the "aggravation" of expensive selections.