Types of calcium for best bloom formation
Calcium is needed for best bloom formation, and potassium for bigger blooms. My soil is limestone/dolomitic clay, yet my soil test came back barely adequate in calcium, due to calcium-tie-up at high pH.
In hydroponic experiment with fertilizers, the biggest root growth was through high potassium, some phosphorus, and nitrogen through calcium nitrate. If the soil is sandy, more nitrogen is needed through leaching, and calcium nitrate would supply both calcium and nitrogen.
I checked many sites on gypsum whether or not it lowers soil pH. Some sites says "yes", some sites say "no". So I tested it: I put more gypsum (calcium suifate) on some rose bushes before our week-long rain.
The dark-green ones that like alkaline soil: French Romanticas & Meilland DIDN'T LIKE the excess gypsum: leaves became thinner, and droopy. It's very much like the time I put too much sulfur on Sweet Promise ... leaves became thinner, more droopy.
Roses with musk or multiflora parentage that prefer acidic soil, LIKE gypsum. Excellenz von Schubert, a hybrid musk, does well with added gypsum, so does Annie L. McDowell.
U of CA Extension chart in the below link listed 1 ton of gypsum as equivalent to 5.38 ton of sulfur. It also listed 1.09 ton of Ferric Sulfate as equivalent to 5.85 ton of sulfur. See link below:
http://vric.ucdavis.edu/pdf/Soil/ChangingpHinSoil.pdf
If your soil is acidic, hold off the gypsum. That stuff is great in California, where the soil & water is alkaline ... but there are better sources of Calcium for acidic soil, according to the info. from EarthCo. booklet, provided FREE with the $20 soil test (gives soil pH, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium, and organic matter).
Gypsum provides 22% calcium, 17% sulfur, with salt index of 8.1, used to de-salt sodic soil, also to neutralize bicarbonates in alkaline tap water.
Dolomitic Limestone provides 25% calcium and 10% magnesium, salt index 0.8, sandy soil lacks magnesium
Calcitic limestone provides 36% calcium when the rain water (pH 5.6) breaks it down, low salt index 4.7
Colloidal rock phosphate provides 19% calcium and 18% phosphate. Best for acidic soil, cannot be utilized at pH over 7.
Hard rock phosphate provides 48% calcium and 30% phosphate, cannot be utilized at pH over 7.
Bone meal has 11% phosphorus and 24% calcium. Bone meal cannot be utilized if the pH is over 7.
Superphosphate provides 20% calcium, 12% sulfur, and 20% phosphorus, low salt index 7.8
Wood ashes provides 20% calcium, 2% phosphorus, 7% potassium, magnesium, and all trace elements. CAUTION: Wood ash is very alkaline, pH over 10, will burn roots if applied directly to plants.
Wood ash is great for acidic clay, where my Mom put wood ash on top of a thick layer of leaves. Snow and rain (pH 5.6) counteracts the alkalinity of wood ash. Below is a bouquet picked recently in 90 degrees humid weather. I use both gypsum and sulfate of potash for best blooms:
Here is a link that might be useful: on-line-soil test at EarthCo. for calcium & soil pH & others
This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 10:31
Comments (22)
jean001a
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agostrawchicago z5
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoI found several PDF abstracts on how calcium helps plants tolerate heat. One joint study by Kansas University and Rutgers University quoted "exogenous Calcium enhanced heat tolerance in both tall fescue and Kentucky Bluegrass. "
See link below: http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/52/355/341.full.pdf
From a government website on plant nutrients: Calcium, an essential part of plant cell wall structure, provides for normal transport and retention of other elements as well as strength in the plant. It is also thought to counteract the effect of alkali salts and organic acids within a plant. • Sources of calcium are dolomitic lime, gypsum, and superphosphate." See gov. agricultural link below:
Below is Stephen Big Purple as a 2 months own-root bought as a tiny band from Burlington Roses. It's fertilized with gypsum plus MiracleGro Bloom plus NPK 10-52-10 with all trace elements. See how dark-green the leaves are despite my alkaline clay at pH 7.7. Gypsum greened up the leaves, since it helped with uptake of nitrogen, phosphorus, and trace elements.
Here is a link that might be useful: Calcium as essential plant nutrient
This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Aug 25, 13 at 12:20
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How to have healthy soil & roses, organically?
Comments (21)Hi Jasmine: That fertilizer recipe of 4 gallons water & 1 cup alfalfa meal & 1 T. molasses sound great !! Thank you. Few mistakes that I did which I hope others won't repeat: 1) Last year: The deer ate Sweet Promise and Firefighter hybrid. They were so bare without leaves, so I gave them high nitrogen fertilizer NPK 10-5-4. That burnt both in high heat, plus drove down potassium & calcium. Both had lousy blooms, plus cane-borers invaded Firefigher's weak stems. 2) Chicken manure is best only twice a year due to its salt. GERDA in HMF, zone 6b, has the best garden, and she uses chicken manure twice a year, after 1/2 bucket of cow manure in spring . Jeanie in PNW informed that the rose park fertilized with animal dung in the spring, and nothing afterwards. Cantigny Rose park here did that a decade ago, and it was their most healthy year. 3) My most healthy rose, and best blooms to leaves ratio is Arthur Bell. I did nothing, except chicken manure before the ground freezes, and the second time early spring. 100 % healthy with glossy foliage. 4) My worst rose, full of black spots, is Yves Seedling #2. It went from 100% healthy early spring (winterized with manure & cracked corn), to disease-fest. That rose has the most salt-damage: 2 applications of chicken-manure, plus sulfate of potash to produce more blooms, then ground limestone & red lava rock, then 2 soluble MiracleGro. I tested to see if chemical fertilizer induce black spots, and it sure did. 5) The stingy roses like Frederic Mistral, Jude the Obscure and Eglantyne BENEFITED from once a month of sulfate of potash & gypsum .. more blooms. Frederic is still clean with ground-limestone & red lava topping. Jude and Eglantyne broke out in B.S. with MiracleGro soluble. Salt in chemical fertilizer drives down potassium, necessary for disease-prevention. 6) Comte de Chambord in the ground is still clean with one application of sulfate of potash & ground limestone & red lava rock. Old Port next to it gets 2 applications of MiracleGro, and broke out in black spots. For pots: Duchess de Rohan and Rose du Roi gets sulfate of potash & gypsum ... both are still clean. Wimpy Duchess de Rohan also gets blood meal and some chicken-manure, still 100% healthy. Chicken manure is high in boron, zinc, and copper. Both zinc and copper are anti-fungal agents. La Reine and 2nd Comte de Chambord in pots: Both broke out in horrible black spots after 2 MiracleGro applications this month. I use less than half the amount recommended. 7) Same report with roses in front: none of these had brewer's yeast nor rice bran. The ones that got chicken manure only are 100%, the ones that got MiracleGro broke out in black spots immediately. I can't wait until more rain to de-salt the damage of chemical fertilizers. Less is best, and slow-released like manure is best. 8) Few years ago I used Lilly Miller acid fertilizer NPK 10-5-4 with chicken manure, plus chemicals. Great spring flush, I get impatient, and give it the SECOND time early June. It got hot & dry, and Mary Magdalene broke out in mildew, DID NOT improve no matter how much tap-water I gave. So this year I learn my lesson: nothing on Mary, except spring application of chicken manure. She's 100% clean, tons of buds. Below is Mary Magdalene's 2nd flush, taken today July 5....See MoreCalcium for rust-prevention in roses
Comments (9)Hi Bluegirl: You are right about "the professor told us that iron oxide is unavailable to cows." I already tested iron sulfate on my rhododendrons ... didn't green up, but leaves turned brown, and the plants died. Iron sulfate burns root fast, it's very acidic, but plants can't use that. Chelated iron is in a form that plants can use. That's why I use Wholesome Organics molasses with 20% chelated iron, 20% potassium, and 17% calcium ... that greened up Excellenz von Schubert rose immediately. That rose is known for chlorosis and prefers acidic soil. People make the wrong assumption that lime added to tap water provides calcium to plants. They don't realize that form of lime, calcium oxide, is unstable, and binds with iron, phosphorus, and potassium ... making plants yellowish. See below from Wikipedia: "Calcium oxide is made by the thermal decomposition of materials such as limestone. This is accomplished by heating the material to above 825 °C (1,517 °F),[5] a process called calcination or lime-burning, to liberate a molecule of carbon dioxide (CO2); leaving quicklime. The quicklime is not stable and, when cooled ... after enough time, it will be completely converted back to calcium carbonate .... Calcium oxide is a key ingredient for the process of making cement." Calcium hydroxide is calcium oxide mixed with water. It's used in fresh water treatment for raising the pH of the water so pipes won't corrode. My tap water in my last house was neutral ... roses bloomed OK when watered with tap. But my tap water in my current house, alkaline soil, is hard-well water, pH 8. The soil where I watered with tap turned concrete, compare to the soil where it's just rain water. The practice of adding calcium hydroxide to water to prevent pipes from being rusty, is what glue up clay soil further, and raise the pH. Thus I get less flowering when watered with my tap (pH 8), versus rain water (pH 5.6). I put rock-hard limestone clay under drain-spout where rain water pours ... they become fluffy fine particles. Rain water (pH 5.6) through time can convert limestone into gypsum ... I already double- checked with the chemist in the Soil Forum. Gypsum occurs naturally and also is made by reacting sulfuric acid with calcium carbonate. Too much gypsum can hurt. Here's an excerpt from link below: "From intensive field observations of gypsiferous soils in Iraq, Smith and Robertson (1962) found that root growth was inhibited where the gypsum content of soil was over 10 percent." "Van Alphen and de los Rios Romero (1971) conclude that up to 2 percent gypsum in the soil favours plant growth, between 2 and 25 percent has little or no adverse effect if in powdery form, but more than 25 percent can cause substantial reduction in yields. They suggest that reductions are due in part to imbalanced ion ratios, particularly K:Ca and Mg:Ca ratios" K stand for potassium, Ca stand for calcium, and Mg stand for magnesium. That's why I use gypsum (17% sulfur and 22% calcium) to break up hard clay at the bottom of the planting hole .... and use sulfate of potash (23% sulfur and 20% potassium) to neutralize my pH 8 tap water. My pH 7.7 clay soil is tested exceedingly high in magnesium, Mg is what makes clay sticky. Calcium and potassium together help with best bloom formation. Below is a bouquet of roses: Radio Times (pink), Crown Princess Magareta (orange), and Paul Neyron (dark pink). They are fertilized with gypsum and sulfate of potash. Here is a link that might be useful: Effects of gypsum and calcium carbonate on plants This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Thu, Oct 31, 13 at 11:55...See MoreSalt-index of chemical fertilizer & soluble for hot weather
Comments (37)Purlisa: I no longer post for the pubic, but I make exceptions when people ask for me specifically. I respect & learn from honest folks like you who share about their garden. I learn more from honest folks who talk about problems in their garden, than gorgeous pics. of roses (with zero details as to type of soil & pH-level & climate & annual rainfall). That's my pet-peeve in HMF, folks just post pics, without specifying if it's own-root or grafted, zero info. on planting zone & type of soil & climate. If you click on my Houzz profile-picture , I updated to include tips on how to tell which own-roots are appropriate for which soil pH, type of soil & climate, just by looking at the leaves. https://www.houzz.com/user/strawchicago I received 8 roses yesterday 6/15 from RU summer sale, they are BIG, and some are over 2 feet tall & with buds & blooms .. very healthy. These roses are bigger & more blooms that the 7 roses I bought full-price early May. My last house was acidic clay: soft & easy to dig, with blue hydrangeas & deep-colors roses. My current house is alkaline clay: rock-hard, need a pick-ax to dig, pink hydrangeas, and roses have faded colors. Roses are much healthier in alkaline clay. My purpose of posting is to help foiks NOT to make the same mistakes like I did in my 30+ years of growing roses, and 110 own-root varieties. My B.S. is in Computer Science, minor in Chemistry, so I want to use my background to help folks. If you have sticky & dense clay, skip the Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate), since it hardens clay further. MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY IS RARE, EXCEPT IN SANDY SOIL (this is from the booklet when I got my soil tested by EarthCo.) My sticky clay soil was tested exceedingly high in magnesium. Skip the molasses, I tested for many years and it attracts rose-slugs, plus sugarly stuff LOWERS soil pH, sugar sours things fast. Azomite is similar to dolomitic lime (both have pH 9), but Azomite works faster. Digging deep, and remove the dense & icky clay & rocks at bottom helps with drainage, so acidic rain water don't sit at the bottom to rot roots. If your clay soil is acidic, COARSE sand (paver's sand) is good on top. BAGGED SAND AT STORES IS VERY ALKALINE, so it will neutralize the acidity of rain. Niels in Denmark, with hundreds of roses, put sand on top of his acidic clay. Skip the alfalfa, it becomes VERY ACIDIC like Kimchi if decays in acidic rain water. Many folks report roses breaking out in blackspots after "sour alfalfa tea", it's like watering roses with sauerkraut or Kimchi-water. At least Kimchi or sauerkraut has salt to control the acidity, but I already tested acidic-alfalfa-tea and it made leaves thinner, thanks to its acidity. Since my clay is rock-hard alkaline at pH near 8, I use acidic pine bark (pH 4) to fix my clay. People root roses in sand. 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This is all new to me but that's the way it was for millions of years. The organic stuff stays on top where it breaks down and travels to the roots below. Roots want a purely mineral soil with as much oxygen as they can get and still be moist." Kittymoonbeam. Lauren (Los Angeles, 10a, Sunset Zone 19) - kittymoonbeam, that does seem to make sense. Limited personal experience has also showed me that top dressing compost with shredded leaves/mulch produced better results than than simply mixing some compost into the surrounding soil" Lauren...See MoreManaging Calcium for Potted Tomato/Pepper Plants?
Comments (8)If the OP is still open to info, this may help. I also grow tomatoes in containers....and have for years. A 5G container is not large enough to accommodate the growth of anything other than a dwarf patio type plant. I grow mine in 20-25G black plastic tubs they sell trees in at the nursery. And the roots still fill the container at the end of our relatively short growing season. With a smaller, root filled container, it is difficult to maintain the consistent soil moisture necessary to allow the uptake and transport of the Ca. And as has been previously stated, it is the consistency in maintaining proper soil hydration that reduces the instance of BER, regardless of what the Ca levels maybe. Because of the nature of potting soil and the almost closed system presented by container growing, the grower needs to fertilize. There is no other way the plants can access the nutrients they require. And fertilize frequently....every time you water you are leaching nutrients out of the potting media. And tomatoes with their heavy fruit production are also heavy feeders so this becomes even more important. "weakly, weekly" is the watchword for fertilizing container plants but may need some modification depending on the watering frequency necessary for your situation. Essentially it means using a full range liquid or water soluble fertilizer at no more than half strength on a weekly basis assuming the need for water is only a couple - three times times a week. If you need to water more frequently, like daily, because of your weather conditions or size of container, then increase the dilution to quarter strength and apply with every other watering. For container gardening, the fertilizer is just about as important as the quality of the potting media. I add Osmocote Plus to my soil mix before potting. But it is not enough to support the plant all season, given the need for almost constant watering and the heavy nutrient demands of the growing plants. So I supplement with a liquid or water soluble fertilizer that has a full range of micronutrients/trace elements as well as the standard NPK. Dyna Gro products or even Miracle Gro all purpose plant food are decent choices but there are others. You just need to read the labels to see if they offer a full range of nutrients. Following this methodology, I have never encountered BER. Nor have I had to resort to a calcium supplement. If you must, Bonide makes one called 'End Rot'....See Morestrawchicago z5
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agostrawchicago z5
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoYesterday Oct 19, I put Jude the Obscure in the ground, bought as a tiny band July 30. So it's 3 1/2 months of growth, resulting in a solid 3-gallon root balls. It was fertilized with soluble gypsum and potassium via bananas. Jude's root-ball was solid, but the top growth was poor, thanks to too much potassium via banana peels. Too much potassium drove down nitrogen.
I get better top growth with a balanced ratio of gypsum and potassium. I bought Gene Boerner from Roses Unlimited end of June. I put equal amount of granular gypsum and sulfate of potash on top. Inside the potting soil I mixed Jobes' Organic for tomatoe NPK 2-7-4 with benenficial microbes. See pic. below of Gene Boerner as 1-month growth, picture taken end of July:
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7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoI got some Plaintain weeds sprouting from the alfalfa hay, it's annoying until I saw the bunnies eating the plaintain weed. Alfalfa hay is cheap & slow to decay and buffers both rain and hot sun.
I tried grass clippings (free from the neighbors) but that doesn't work as well as alfalfa hay .. it's too acidic and grass doesn't have "growth-stimulating hormone". I have a raised tomato bed which I put 1 entire bag of 40 lb. alfalfa meal in 2012 .. plus 1 bag of 40 lb. gypsum over the last 2 years. Calcium plus alfalfa = aggressive growth & lots of leaves.
The tomatoes are green & lots of new growth, pic. taken Sept 16, 2016 in my zone 5a:
strawchicago z5
4 years ago
See above link that the major nutrients: nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, and calcium are LESS AVAILABLE below pH 6. Rain is acidic at pH 4.5 in my Chicagoland. Liming helps to bring the pH to neutral for nutrients to be available. See below the map of rain pH across USA:
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