Does it say you should dissolve the granules?

If not, that's the wrong way to use the product, also possibly dangerous.

There is a huge difference in how the liquid formulation delivers the active ingredient as opposed to the granulated formulation.

Let me ask you this : does the label for the granulated product specify citrus or any other edible crops? If so, simply follow those directions carefully. If not, I'd call the 1-800 number on the label for suggestions.

Imidicloprid is not a chemical that should be used on edibles other than with extreme caution.

The label clearly states this product is not to be used on food producing plants. There is some research that has shown systemic poisons have an adverse affect on the pollinators, which is contributing to the loss of them.
Since leafminor damage mostly is cosmetic is there any really good reason to use such an environmentally damaging poison to control them?

Kimmsr, the leaf miner damage is NOT just cosmetic. I will lose an entire years growth on a couple young trees to these things. Ecery single leaf is so curled and distorted that it is a home for mites and very suspectible to fungus attack as well. In addition, the silvery surface of the leaf has seperated from the leaf and there is NO WAY it is producing food to keep this plant going.

This is not some little thing, this is putting two expensive plants in danger. I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't have to.

Kimmsr...the issue here is not the use of this particular chemical, but the FORMULATION of that product. In other words, is it a wettable powder or an emulsion or a dust or whatever. The formulation of a product is how the active ingredient is carried

Whether we like it or not, some formulations of Imidicloprid have been approved for use on certain edible crops. It has long been in use in many agricultural crops, including certain vegetables and many tree fruit crops...including citrus.

It 's up to the grower that this chemical is used according to strict label directions. Sadly, even at the professional level Imidicloprid is easily misused.

This particular example should not be an opportunity for us to "preach ", but to educate our original poster about his/her fundamental concept about how chemicals can or cannot be used. This person does not even know that it is against Federal law to use a chemical in other ways than is on the label.

My point is that we need to educate this person first about the actual subject mattered of the oiginal question. It's an excellent question and one that comes up often for me in my consulting...whether for homeowners or professionals.

Part of what I'm trying to figure out exactly is how these two products are ACTUALLY different...
Facts:
1) the concentration of imidacloprid is almost exactly the same
2) there are no other active ingredients listed on the label
3) the rose granules have the addition of some fertilizer
4) the fruit and vegetable product is extremely expensive
5) the rose granules cost half as much for twice as much.

Which beg the questions:
1) why is imidacloprid OK for use on fruits and vegetables on one label, but it says Not to use on edible crops on the other? (Is it that the EPA only approved the lower concentration, and the ever-so-slightly-higher concentration is not approved, even though in practice you would end up delivering the same amount of insecticide?)
2) how would "the way it delivers the product" be any different if I completely dissolved the liquid in water versus completely dissolved the granules in water? In both cases I have a similar concentration of imidacloprid in an aqueous solution, one of which also has some fertilizer.

I can not help but think that there is something funny going on here, and it involves profit margin. Could it be that roses and flowers have competition from other systemic insecticides, while edible crops have virttually no other alternatives?

Ive seen similar shenanigans pulled with drugs for people. Take Excedrin for example.... You have excedrin, excedrin tension headache, and excedrin migraine and it's all the same crap. Some just cost more because it's labelled a certain way.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I don't earn enough money to be giving it away in fat profit margins for agrochemical businesses.

you guys are trying to give this poster information on how to use a SYSTEMIC on a food plant ... with one minor disclaimer...

how about you tell him how to use IPM to treat the problem PROPERLY ... and that protocol.. probably started 2 or 3 months ago .. prevention, rather than cure....

rather than accepting his premise that a systemic is the ONLY FEASIBLE SOLUTION ...

you all know i have no aversion to chemicals..

but crimminey.. ITS A FOOD PRODUCT... even i am not this despirate for a crop ..

the poster would be better off.. putting down the chemicals.. and ed-ju-ma-cating himself into IPM for leafminers on citrus ... and one would have to believe that his local Ag or extension office.. in his county.. would have plenty of information available ...

unless i was under the wrong impression that IPM includes systemics????

ken

Ken Adrian, you have no idea what is even going on here. If you've got any real IPM suggestions (assuming you're "Ed-ja-macated" enough on the subject), then put your money where your mouth is. FYI, I'm surrounded by about 2000 acres of abandoned orange groves absolutely infested beyond belief with CLM, so if you want to go all IPM on it be my guest. But I'm not going to sit by while $90 citrus trees get eaten to ribbons the instant they push any new grow at all. I was manually smashing 4-8 per leaf per day until I finally gave up. Yes, that's HUNDREDS PER DAY!

As for the rest of you, let me get even more specific with my questions:

The dosage recommended for these trees is 1.5 oz of concentrate dissolved in 1 gallon of water. I measured the density of liquid to ensure that it is that of water (1 fluid ounce = 1 ounce of weight). So the dosage ends up being .003525 oz Imidacloprid by weight in 128 ounces of water for a solution of .00275%.

If I were to measure out 1.6 ounces of the granules and dissolve them in 1 gallon of water, I would have .003525 ounces imidacloprid dissolved in 128 ounces of water for a solution of .00275% along with nearly 1.6 ounces of fertilizer along for the ride.

So tell me what's different. Is there a difference with the inert ingredients that maybe aren't actually inert?

One thing for sure is the cost. The Fruit and Vegetable spray is $16.97 for 32 ounces, costing $225.66 per ounce weight of imidacloprid. The Rose granules are $7.47 for 56 ounces, or $60.63 per ounce weight of imidacloprid.

I want to know why there is such a huge cost difference. I suspect it's no more than marketing because there doesn't seem to be an obvious technical one.

FWIW, I bought the overpriced fruit and vegetable version and used it exactly as directed, since the poor trees are trying to push a new flush and I want to get to them ASAP. Now that the time pressure is off, I want to get to the bottom of this. Maybe some of you aren't inquiring enough to want to know, but I am.

If you have that large a problem with leaf miners you also have other problems you need to address. Leaf Miners are a symptom of larger problems, as are all insect pests.

Here is a link that might be useful: About Leaf Miners