I was looking for a gardening forum when I found this place...

...I musta made a mistake.

I keep seeing politics and religion come up, again and again...

Next thing you know, we'll be talking about football or something.

sorry about that :) my job is in the political realm....it bleeds over sometimes! Do yourself a favor and DON'T wander over to the Hot Topics forum. That place gives me heartburn.

Since it included the mention of community garden efforts that some members here might someday chose to become involved with, I didn't really think it was off-topic. Even chickens relate to gardening in many ways, since some of us use them for pest control and to supply raw material for our compost piles.

Gardening is a diverse area with many things that relate to it and interact with it...for example, the weather that causes us so much heartburn or even heartache. We meander through a wide range of topics here because they related to gardening and to our lives as gardeners.

I'm pretty sure football does get mentioned here occasionally. I know we've had questions before from OSU or OU fans who want suggestions for flowers they can plant that bloom in their school colors. Every now and then, especially during college football season, someone closes a post with a discreet "Go Sooners!" or "Go Cowboys". Off-topic? Sure, but what does it hurt?

As for religion, we try to avoid religious debate (hot topics is the forum for that), but when one or more of our members need our prayers, I don't think it is wrong to mention it. In drought years we often talk about praying for rain. We sometimes talk (jokingly, I think) about the need to perform a rain dance, though dancing itself isn't really related to gardening. I would hope that people who prefer not to ever see any mention of religion will just tolerate our occasional mention of religion and of a higher authority.

We have members here who have endured a life-threatening health crisis, and they relied not only on medical science, but on positive thinking, lots of encouragement and well wishes including from members here, and on religion and gardening therapy as part of their battle to regain their health. It all is interwoven together for many of us....gardening and other aspects of life as they relate to one another.

When a thread touches on a topic I don't care to discuss or have no interest in, I just ignore it because I realize there are others here who might want to discuss it.

We are a small group compared to those in larger states that cover a greater geographical area, and we become pretty close....including sometimes visiting one another's homes and gardens. I think that, in a lot of ways, that makes us a more close-knit group and partly because of that, our garden chat evolves and meanders into other aspects of life as well.

No one has to participate in any thread that has mention of something they aren't interested in, so I don't see the problem.

Peace,

Dawn

Dawn, I think he was kidding... :) Yes, I thought a number of people might have an interest in it and may even want to follow the study or participate in it. It looks like they might allow public comment. If nothing else, it is more interesting than some stuff they "study", I promise!

We could discuss addiction....I just bought more plants, agastache. They were only $1.00, and they needed a home before the Lowes people killed them, REALLY :). *sigh*, I didn't think I had any more room, so I only bought six. Now I wished I had bought more! :)

Well, I hope he was kidding. I'd like to think that our meandering conversations are enjoyable even when they venture off topic. : )

Ooh, agastache. Great bargain! If you hurry back, maybe you can get some more to go with the six you bought.

We probably shouldn't talk about plant and seed addiction here. That just opens a big can or worms.

As Jay always says, it isn't a problem unless you think it is. And I'm paraphrasing it, but he says it really well (and much better than I am paraphrasing it) when we discuss tomato addiction. I'm pretty sure there is no cure for tomato addiction, and if there is, I don't want to be cured. Actually I feel that way about everything I grow....don't wanna be cured. Or, at least, everything I grow on purpose. We grow bermuda grass here, for example, but not because we planted it, and not because we want it.

Dawn

concepts and implicatio​ns of altruism bias and pathologic​al altruism

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/06/04/1302547110.full.pdf

No. I wasn't kidding.

I like the idea, and I think it could promote better gardening and better lifestyles. If we opposed new ideas and new experiments where would we be today?

Love this idea. Please keep us posted, Lisa! As for this thread dealing in a vaguely political area, my thoughts are that people post about things I don't necessarily believe in or agree with all the time, and I just don't participate in those threads that are not my cup of tea, rather than joining in to try to change people's minds to my way of thinking. The meme below is one of my favorites and helps me keep my blood pressure under control during election season! :)

My old office was right next door to a food pantry and my new office is a block from the Mission. The need in our area is great. That reminds me, I need to update my thread about the Chesapeake employee gardens ... some of their plots are devoted to the Regional Food Bank, but they are only staffed by Chesapeake employees and the public isn't allowed to come in and help tend (although I did offer!)

Mia, It is too bad outside volunteers cannot help at the Cheasapeake Garden, but I can see their point of view from a legal standpoint.

One of the schools here in our county has a school garden. They plant in in spring, but they seem to mostly leave the harvest for the community. There was a newspaper article about it shortly before school got out this year, reminding their community that it is a school/community garden and telling members of the community to feel free to come tend the garden and to harvest food from it for their family. I thought that was such a cool idea. You never know when someone who's never had a garden before might enjoy that sort of intro to gardening and then become gardeners themselves.

Dawn

Stick with me, here. I do have a point.

=====

http://decryptedmatrix.com/live/food-activists-now-labeled-terrorists-by-fbi/

http://gawker.com/5892639/how-the-fbi-monitored-crusty-punks-anarchist-hangouts-and-an-organic-farmers-market-under-the-guise-of-combating-terrorism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVsTTXgR08A

Having seven days of food in your house makes you a terrorist, according to many of America's law enforcement agencies.

The FBI terrorist watch list specifically refers to 'bulk food' purchases, referring to such things as long term storage, using MRE's as an example, but not limiting the language to any other foods for long term storage.

http://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI-SuspiciousActivity/Military_Surplus.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/FSMA/ucm247548.htm

Includes farmer's markets, roadsides stands, organic food sales. So, if you're selling anything from your garden... you are violating the law. If you are contributing food to others, you are a possible federal law breaker.

Other laws apply to selling plants and seeds from your garden. (reporting the income to the IRS is one of those many and several laws.)

http://www.foodquality.com/details/article/4547041/Small_Businesses_Tip_the_Scales_for_FSMA_Exemptions.html?tzcheck=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_saving#Legality

Many of the seeds, plants and cuttings you trade and swap or sell? Because it's cheaper and easier than buying at full retail? Hell, because it's fun! Yeah. You're a law breaker. Mebbe even a domestic terrorist. At the moment, many gardeners in the US are on a government watch list...simply because we garden, dehydrate, can, freeze and store food from our gardens. That's the undeniable reality. That's not speculation. That's not conspiracy theory. It has already happened in the real world. (Monsanto isn't the only one who has patents on food items. Among many others, chances are that your local university has patents on food items, as well.)

Richard Morrissette's (Democrat) call for proposals for community gardening? To help the poor? To help feed poor kids? To help feed the aged, on fixed incomes? It's the government. The program will involve even more rules and regulations about gardening and food, before it's all over and done. Accept that as a given. It's the same government -and mostly the same political party Richard belongs to- that has written, enacted and implemented all of the laws -and more- that I referenced above. Many of you have already violated many of those laws, rules and regulations.

Heirloom seeds? In the EU, the government is already trying to control heritage seeds.

http://www.survivalorganicseeds.com/2013/05/gmo-new-eu-seed-law-genocide-update.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_plant

http://www.vintageveggies.com/information/why_heirlooms.html

The original version of the above listed odd safety act did not exclude heirloom seeds or family gardens. Think about it. It wasn't an oversight. It was originally written that way on purpose.

The more you involve the government in gardening of any kind, the fewer things you can do in your own garden. You become a lawbreaker, simply by gardening.

This is my point: If the forum wants to talk about the politics of gardening, fine and dandy. There are other pov not limited to those offered by a state level democrat representative from a local city. There are conservative and libertarian povs, to offer, as well, including the thought that such proposals should be taken up either by individuals or charitable groups, including religious groups, instead of through government sponsorship. (Yes, I avoid the religious themed threads, here, but find them, imo, to be more than just a bit off topic)

If those other political views are not welcome here, while openly liberal and progressive ideas about government sponsored sustainable gardening are encouraged? Well, you've got a problem. It isn't my problem. I'm not limiting what you can say or do, here. If we talk about gardening, fin. I like it. If we want to talk about the politics of gardening, other views should be accepted, at least for consideration, and not simply dismissed or discredited, as a few have tried to do to my views on this topic.

According to the evidence, with a democrat or progressive liberal pov, promoting a democrat party proposal for government involvement in gardening? You've limited your own freedom to garden and you've limited your ability to share food, seeds and plants from your own garden with others.

That's my first question wrt Mr. Morrissette's proposal: How will it limit my freedom to garden? W/o evidence or proof, any assurances to the contrary are pretty empty. He has voted for too many other programs and laws which limit the freedoms of Oklahomans or increase the scope and power of government. His own words and deeds, and deeds of his political party, stand as evidence against backing his proposal.

Bones,
I'm pretty darned conservative. But I think you're reading more into the original post than was intended. I know, there is some terminology which often goes hand and hand with certain political persuasions. However, I am involved with a very fine group which uses these terms, and I'm pretty sure they are not "barking up that tree."

Take it easy, okay? I enjoy your posts and look forward to getting to know you more, here on the forum. But I'm about positive that Lisa had no political agenda at all when she passed this along. That they want to do a study and consider these exchanges is politics neutral. I can't imagine anyone being against such a thing.

George

W,

To be quite frank with you, as i always like to be, no one here has turned this into a political thread except for you.

The OP simply provided a link to what she, i assume, thought might be a good and valuable program to help feed the hungry and underpriveledged.

No need to turn something good into something bad.

There are a plethora of threads here that you can participate in without turning this one into something ugly. If you dont like a thread, just stay away from it. Because I, for one, find your approach to this to be very offensive. As i said, i am very frank.

Dude, just walk away. Thats what i will be doing.

Emma

This post was edited by Erod1 on Mon, Jun 17, 13 at 10:58

Wow. I had no idea I could ever start such a wowser of a thread. Wbonesteel...I think if we sat down to talk, most of us would have a lot in common. My politics are not at all reflected in the post. A study is a study...they certainly need someone to set an opposing side so they can talk out all the kinks or find out that if needs to go nowhere. I have nothing to do with the study, I just saw it as I was scrolling looking for work related material. The topic caught my eye and I thought I would point people to it as an FYI. Absolutely nothing was intended.

Certainly do value "Bones" and have enjoyed his participation on the forum. Just don't think there was any need to get upset about mention of this study.

George