Don't know about the venison stew, but I like Gala apples for almost everything.

Hope the spice police don't knock on my door.......they might find a few out-dated containers. I just hate to throw anything away if it might be good for one more use.

Jan

Phooey on the spice police! If the spice is old, just use more (unless it's got moth-webs in it). I think a reluctance to waste goes hand in hand with the desire to preserve food in season.

I buy whole spices and then grind a half-jar worth at a time, because I'm too lazy to wipe out the grinder every time I want to cook with cumin.

At the natural foods store you can buy a tiny bag of spice in the amount of your choosing, for much cheaper than at the grocery store (or Penzey's, which I would reserve for exotic or high-end spices).

Melissa

Y'all can do what you want. But I guarantee if you make the same dish, using fresh spices in one and your old stuff in another, you will taste the difference.

Or try this. Make one version with your old, worn-out spices, and leave them out of the second version. Then tell me the taste differences.

Using old, worn-out spices is just a false savings.

>If the spice is old, just use moreBzzt! Wrong! Thanks for playing. :>)

Spices do not go slowly bad. Due to the influences of time, light, and heat, they lose their potency practically all at once. The more volitile the oils, the faster this happens.

Try this. Go buy a new jar of paprika. Now compare its color to that of the jar that's been in your spice rack for some length of time. The vibrancy of the new vs. the dullness of the old should tell you something.

Mellisa has the right idea. Most of us will not make the effort to grind all our spices just as we need them. But grinding an amount you reasonably expect to use rather quickly makes more sense than buying it pre-ground and hoping for the best.

Stuff you rarely use (like those pumpkin pie spices you only go looking for once a year) should always be bought whole and ground when you need them.

If this makes me a member of the spice police, so be it. I'll run out right now and buy a badge.

Gardenlad, pick one up for me too, I'm extremely "thrifty", but I'll toss old, unused spices because I'm not going to put all those other ingredients into a recipe just to use flavorless seasonings.

One of my secretaries buys all her spices at the Dollar Store. I don't buy all my stuff at Penzey's, but I always get my cinnamon there, my vanilla, smoked paprika, peppercorns.

She came in from lunch and told me she got a "great buy" on cinnamon, 2/$1. I sniffed and it smelled like....nothing. I went home for my own break and grabbed that jar of Penzey's cinnamon I'd gotten the week before and we did a side-by-side sniff test. Oh yeah, then she noticed. Of course, now she wants me to pick some up for her the next time I take a trip to the local Penzeys. LOL

Annie

You hit the nail right on the head, Annie.

What's the point of using great (and, for most people, expensive) ingredients, putting in all that time, and then trying to save a half cent with dead spices? I just don't get it.

Just so you know, I'm feeling ashamed right now.
M

About what?

My old spices, of course. For the record, my pickling spices are fresh.

>Oh yeah, then she noticed. Of course, now she wants me to pick some up for her the next time I take a trip to the local Penzeys.Part of the problem, I reckon, is that many people do not know what the spice is supposed to smell/taste like.

It's the same syndrome people experience growing tomatoes for the first time. Until then, they've never had a ripe one. So how could they know what a tomato was supposed to taste like.

Even buying new in the jar is no guarantee of freshness. You don't know how long it's been since the spice was ground, and put in the jar. How long it stood around in a warehouse. How long it's been on the grocer's shelves.

If you must buy pre-ground, try and make sure it's from a place with high turnover. That will at least minimize how long it sits on the shelf.

And, unless you run a restaurant, stay away from those ovesized plastic jugs of spices sold at Sam's and similar locations. Sure, they seem like a bargain. But there is no way you can reasonably use one of them up before most of the contents loses it's flavor.

FWIW, everything said about spices applies to herbs too; often more so, as they lose their potency even faster.

I just read that Mark Bittman (famous cookbook author) throws out all his spices in October, after the heat of the summer, and replaces them all. Says it costs only $30-$100. Well, that's too much for me to do every year, but I do buy from Penzeys (mailorder) and try to get small amounts that will be used in a year or so.

A lot of the common spices will grow year round here - and from time to time, I replace those that were dried previously, and dry fresh ones.

By accident, I found grinding up a lot of the left-overs together made a fine mixture (didn't want to toss them) - and they added a little zip to stir fries, soups, etc. I then dried some fresh picked herbs for next year's use.

Those I don't grow, I must buy, but do notice a real difference and not always lucky enough to get some fresh.

Oregano, thyme, mints, cilantro, chives, parsley, rosemary and basil grow well outside and most will winter over. Hopefully, this coming summer, there will be a variety of peppers for grinding -

Can't wait to try those different peppers - and have most of the seeds already marked in the seed catalog for next year's order. Definitely want to try those habanero types - even if it means just for jellies - that everyone raves about on this forum. Also want cayenne, poblano, Thai hots, etc.

My success with the ancho types - which dried nicely and made for a rich enchilada sauce this summer - helped give me the inspiration to try the others.

Unfortunately, the colored bells never have done well - but as long as the other peppers have similar flavors, I can live without them. There were a few - but getting them to ripen was a problem. OK to use green however, and made some canned green pepper types - and then froze in small jars with a bit of salted water added. Nice for taco and enchiladas, and to toss into pasta dishes. The red ancho made nice pimento styles and they were done the same way.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Having just returned from any aannual trip to Penzys I can attest to the quality of their spices. Your storage also has a lot to do with how fast your spices go bad. Everything but the extracts and the vanilla beans I keep sealed in the freezer away from light and heat.

My husband likes to make these big batches of "football food" and I usually keep store bought spices available for him to use. I think however, he has started to taste the difference. My Turkish bay leaves suspiciously disappeared and I'm sure my cat's gourmet tendencies don't lean toward savory dishes.

Curious1, do you open the jars from the freezer every time you need some, or do you take out a bunch to have? I've worked in some coffee shops, and I know if you keep coffee in the fridge or freezer, letting the moisture in when you open the jar will make the coffee go bad faster. We would recommend people keep coffee in the freezer in small packages, then take out a whole package at a time to store in an airtight container at room temperature. I imagine the oxidation of spices would be affected the same way. Then again, if it keeps them hidden from your husband, maybe that's more important. :-)

Melissa

When I grow and dry my herbs, like dill, sage, basil, rosemary, thyme, etc. I usually crush the leaves for some. and put in a Ball canning jar with metal lid. The lid and jar get a vacuum seal using the Food Saver jar adaptor. This helps to keep the herbs from losing flavor. Its also great to use on grated cheese, but the cheese does need to be refrigerated. as to the herbs, most still have anice green color and bright smell and taste. Last years dill weed is still quite flavorful.

"Y'all can do what you want. But I guarantee if you make the same dish, using fresh spices in one and your old stuff in another, you will taste the difference."

Of course there will be a difference! Belindach joked about the spice police and I joked in kind. She wasn't referring to a recipe for a contest or sale, she was talking about a pie filling she made that was delicious. Obviously, the age of her cloves didn't hurt.

>If the spice is old, just use moreBzzt! Wrong! Thanks for playing. :>)

Well, I stand corrected. I've only been cooking for 40 years, I guess I was just too dumb to know that old spices taste different from fresh ones. Of course, I was speaking of spices, not herbs, where the difference is not as pronounced.

A year-old container of tarragon or basil is really no more flavorful than hay, while a similarly aged portion of cloves, cinnamon, or star anise retains flavor much longer (presuming proper storage), though of course, fresher is better.

You know, as much as I would like to consider myself a "gourmet" type person. I really can't tell the difference in a lot of stuff. Take cinnamon for instance, I've used old cinnamon from a giant container of Tone's, I've had pampered chef cinnamon and I have bought every single different type of cinnamon that Penzey's sells. (Granted, I have not bought cinnamon from the dollar store, only name brands.) With the exception of the one that is a different type of cinnamon, they all just tasted like cinnamon to me. I went back to buying the 4 oz McCormick bottle that they sell at the commissary for a dollar. And I don't really like cloves and use it so little that I would be paying to replace I spice I'm not a fan of all the time. I always at least half the amount of clove called for in a recipe. I guess in the end, we all need to do what works best for us.

In the last 10 years or so, I have somehow lost a lot of my taste buds, probably due to age. Even for that, my sense of smell is also poor. When I made a batch of apple butter, I used a LOT of cinnamon. I just couldn't taste it very well. I kept adding more (yes, it was mostly all fresh mixed varieties, including some cinnamon oil). After several additions and tastings, it finally had a flavor, or should I say heat. Because of all the extra cinnamon I had added, its a bit on the hot side, but I figured if its just too spicy on its own, I can always add some to a fresh apple pie or other apple based pastry.

Penzey's is THE BEST!! Well, for those exotic, tropical things that won't grow in my gardening zone. If you freeze your excess, it will hold them for a very long time w/o deteriorating. Those herbs from the garden, those dried for keeping, get tossed into the compost bucket each year so freshness and fabulous flavor will never lack in our dishes. Compound butters w/ herbs, peppers, or garlic are also made fresh and frozen each year. Our homemade garlic powder is awesome - made from 19 kinds of garlic this time....those who receive or buy it are never again content with the store bought stuff!
Good cooking demands as much freshness of all ingredients as can be had....we owe it to ourselves and loved ones to feed them that stuff, hee-hee!

Melly, I also have bought and tried many types of cinnamon and cannot tell the difference. I'm starting to grow a few herbs. Fresh basil is wonderful. I'm not impressed with my parsley but I could be doing something wrong. I have some parsley bought in PA about 7 years ago which is still wonderful and sweet. Wish I knew what kind they grew since it is about gone. I plan on growing about 6 different herbs this spring.

Belinda, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I can tell the difference with fresh cumin. But I use enough of it that it doesn't stick around that long. I'm planning a pilgrimage to Penzey's when we go home for Christmas. It is way across town from where my folks live.

Annie,
The girls and I made cinnamon dough ornaments the other day. Sounds like the perfect use for your co-workers dollar store cinnamon. We are stringing them on rafia to make garlands for teacher gifts. We drape them on the radiators to make the house smell good. I'm happy to report that I used the rest of the old ground cloves and nutmeg up in the dough also. I bought a nutmeg grinder a while ago. Hopefully the whole nutmegs that came with it won't be too stale - looking bashful...

Melly

Melly, your whole nutmegs will keep two days longer than forever. Once you grind the stuff is when you have to be concerned about losing the essential oils which give it its flavor.

It bothers me no end that mace is mostly sold only in powdered form, instead of as blades as in the old day. Mace, for those unfamiliar with it, is the outer husk of the nutmeg, and has a similar, albiet stronger, taste.

Belinda,

Flat leaved, Italian parsley is what you want to grow for cooking. It has great flavor and aroma. The curley stuff is primarily for garnish.

Parsley can be dried but, when you grow it, there's no reason not to use it fresh. It is far more aromatic that way. It will usually survive for several years in the garden and can be picked at any time, even if you have to brush away the snow.

Jim

Jim, I have the flat leaf kind but it seems so strong. It is doing well in the garden and survived the recent light freeze. I had not realized it lasted a couple of years. Nice to know.

Parsley and kidney problems don't mix well. I must avoid it as it can do some damage to failing kidneys.

Oddly, Mace does hold up better than nutmeg when its ground. It is the outer wrapper of the nutmeg, but is a lighter tan color as well as having a different taste compared to nutmeg. I use the mace in making Polish Babka as well as in danish pastry and most any kind of rolled up sweet rolls. It goes well with the sweetened doughs.

Just saw a source for smoked paprika. It says its sweet and dried in an oak fire, then ground. The ad was from American Spice company, who also offer bags of citric acid and many other spices and flavorings