I have never made them but that really doesn't seem like enough brine. Sometimes you find you have to make more brine than called for.

It said simmer for 30 minutes and it's been in less than half that, the tomatoes are already translucent. They did cook down some but it still doesn't seem like enough brine to process safely. The lovely crisp (before salting, they did get limp after draining) green tomatoes are now soft translucent yellow-brown stuff from the brown sugar. I hate to waste 5 lb of tomatoes. Has anybody made these and am I doing it right?

I have more vinegar and brown sugar mixed up - spices will just be a little weak if I add more brine.

I added a cup more sugar/vinegar solution and it looked better, but I didn't get the cooked tomatoes to float until I added another cup - so doubling the liquid - 4C for 5 lb of tomatoes and 1C of onions, and I don't like things really sweet so 2.5C of brown sugar. But I'd already filled the tea balls I'm using as spice bags with 1tsp each of spices, so I guess that's not going to be as flavorful as the recipe intended. Can I add a couple of cloves and some mustard, celery seed to each jar?

This recipe is insane.

You will get cooked green tomato sauce.

Pretty much. Maybe more of a sweet chow chow. But I might as well go ahead and can it now...

Maybe not - got the first jar filled and it is ug-ly! Brown brine. Some of the tomatoes are whole, others are in shreds. I'm just going to stick them in the fridge (the brine doesn't taste bad). Not worth wasting the lids, the electricity, and giving up the rest of "date night" with DH. Sheesh. What a waste.

I have no experience whatsoever with this recipe; I do see it's on a number of Extension sites and the NCHFP, so it has to have worked for somebody.

My first thought would be that perhaps there was a measurement problem with the tomatoes and/or the onions.

Secondly, I notice the vinegar and sugar are heated to dissolve the sugar. Then the tomatoes and onions and spices are added. So if the vinegar-sugar solution was boiling and then the vegetables were added and that mixture was simmered gently, odds are the tomatoes would retain more of their texture.

I see the instructions say to bring the mixture back to the boil and simmer for 30 minutes, which seems excessive.

Point three is that the recipe (which I assume has been around for a long time) doesn't specify how green the tomatoes should be, but if they're on the yellowing end of green as opposed to hard-green, I can see it's more likely they would disintegrate.

In my books I found four or five old green tomato pickle recipes which were almost identical to this one: green tomatoes, onions, brown sugar, vinegar, salt, drain, cook, bottle. Those that specified said "hard green" or "firm green" tomatoes. All said the tomatoes and onions should be sliced very thinly. One said bring to the boil and simmer 15 minutes; the others said bring to the boil and simmer "until tender". These instructions make more sense than the recipe posted.

One way to salvage this recipe would be to chop or grind the mixture and treat it as a piccalili or chow-chow. Or even blend it and use it in beans and such as a green tomato ketchup.

But of course it does depend on how much additional energy you want to expend. Close your eyes, ignore the color and taste the pickle. If it's good (even though brownish) then it's worth salvaging.

Carol

I stuck 2 quarts and a PB jar full in the fridge.

Some of my tomatoes must have been sliced a little thin to be in shreds. I did leave them simmering for 30 minutes per the recipe. The brown sugar just turned the vinegar brown to begin with, and the allspice didn't help. I did have to add some more sugar to make it taste OK, so ended up making full batch of brine (half white and half cider vinegar), with 4C of vinegar and 3C of brown sugar, but only 1tsp each of spices. And it made app. 5C (if PB jar is 1pint), so the 2C of brine would not have been enough. Maybe white sugar and no allspice would be more appealing.

The tomatoes were firm and light green (but not yellowing - I threw out the one that was ripening when I saw it as I cut into it). I thought you couldn't eat dark green unripe tomatoes b/c of solanine?

I also had whole tomatoes (small) and onions salted for The Joy of Pickling's Curried Green Tomatoes. Though she said sliced I figured I'd try them whole, used point of knife to puncture core end and blossom end so brine would penetrate. But I'm afraid with brown sugar and curry powder, they'll turn out just as brown. Should I rinse, drain (it's been 12 hours now), pick out the onions and just make NCHFP's dill pickles with the tomatoes? I don't have celery (have celery seed) but I do have a lot of bell peppers I picked thinking it was going to freeze.

Solanine is a problem with potatoes but only one source mentions it as an issue with tomatoes and there are many reputable authorities that dispute that.

There are a lot of people who've eaten fried green tomatoes all their lives who would be in real trouble if solanine were an issue.

If you are susceptible to color as an appetite suppressant, then perhaps the Joy of Pickling recipe is one to skip. However, as I look at the recipe I see the tomatoes are only cooked three minutes, so they aren't going to change color much. I'd guess you're going to have green surrounded by a darker syrup. It's up to you whether you want to abandon that plan and go with a different recipe.

Older recipes are more focused on flavor and bright pickle colors were not strived for. Brown sugar and cider vinegar yield a sweeter mellower result which is a desireable enhancement when contrasted with the tang of green tomatoes. But if this bothers you, you could go with a bouquet garni of whole spices (to be removed before bottling) with white sugar and distilled or white wine vinegar.

Personally I wouldn't because the result would be a little harsh for my taste but that's just my preference.

Carol

I drained the tomatoes, picked them out, and left the onions in the colander for the past 3.5hrs, went back to bed. I really like the taste of brown sugar and curry, thought the pickles would be interesting. But all I have left are small ones I don't feel like slicing. So I thought I'd make whole curried tomato pickles. But the rest of the family prefers dills and bread and butter pickles. So maybe I should just dill these per NCHFP?

None of us eat green tomatoes (all Yankees except for Texan DH), and we're not used to brown brine, so while they may taste good, getting someone to taste them in the first place may be a problem.

I don't know how long I'd have to cook whole tomatoes for Curried recipe anyway - I had just planned on cooking til I could get a fork through the biggest ones.

We've enjoyed the Bread and Butters My Way (doubled the sugar), the Really Quick Dills, and the Half Sours from the Joy of Pickling. I've used cider vinegar in the B&Bs and the color has been fine. It's just the brown sugar I guess.

But I can use my *dark* green tomatoes (maybe even for tomato bread)? I thought fried green tomatoes were made from the lighter ones too. I had just planned on keeping them and seeing if they ripen. I shouldn't have picked them - weather channel was wrong. It didn't freeze the other night.

When do you think the pickles in the fridge will be ready? I think it generally takes less time than processed pickles, but maybe a week or 2? I don't really have much room for quarts (esp. not with a quart and a pint of halfsours fermenting now that will have to go in fridge sometime this week). But I don't want to give them to people who do have room until they're ready to eat.

Thanks for all your help.

We make these every year as they are quite popular with the kids and grandkids and yes they are supposed to be brownish. But brown sugar comes in different colors. So they are less so if you use white vinegar and light brown sugar than if you use cider and dark brown sugar as Carol said. We use cider vinegar and light brown sugar in ours.

Use small hard green tomatoes not large ones or ones that have reached the break stage, slice them thickly by hand (mandoline slices are far too thin) and lightly simmer, don't boil, until translucent.

Did you ever add the water the recipe calls for?

Dave

What's a "breaker" tomato?

I did sliced thickly by hand, but some of the slices might have been thinner than others. I didn't boil, but 15 min of simmering really was enough to get the slices translucent. I had mixed up cider vinegar and light brown sugar, decided it was too brown, dumped it into a measuring cup, then used white distilled vinegar and light brown sugar, it still turned brown. Put the tomatoes in, it didn't cover, and I didn't just want to add water (it would have been over a cup of water - more like 2 cups to really get the solids to float), so I added 1C of the reserved cider vinegar mixture, then the other. After adding those 2C of solution, I got about 5C which is what the recipe should make. I was worried the mixture with only 2C of vinegar (and maybe a little water) would end up too thick.

Actually, now I'm wondering if I can take a quart of this and try making chutney by adding apples and raisins? It would be more appealing to Yankee tastes as a spiced chutney in small jars.

Kay sent me this link a while ago

http://erb.org.uk/cookbook/chutney.html

So I was think if 2 lb of apples in 1 quart (2/5 of this batch), could I just add 4C of chopped apples, 12-16oz of raisins, 1T of ground ginger, maybe another cup of onion (I have the ones I picked out of the whole tomato bowl), the cayenne? How much more vinegar and how much longer to cook it? Fridge only, or process 10 min BWB for pints?

If these are for fridge/freezer only (good, I save lids LOL!), I could give away pints of chutney more easily than quarts or pints of green tomato pickles. Sorry, regional taste (actually appearance) thing.

OK, I just looked in the Ball Complete book, page 234 recipe for green tomato chutney - though it calls for green bell peppers (and I have them), I think I prefer the raisins. But here's the recipe so you don't have to look it up, can someone help me figure out how to turn these pickles into a chutney? I would have to halve this to use *all* the pickles I made last night, since I started with 8C of tomatoes. In fact, I'd like to quarter the recipe (or make 2 batches) since I can't fit the 7 pints that this makes in my canner at once. I also have about 6qt (?) Dutch oven (and 6qt slow cooker, which might be the thing to use). The 8C of tomatoes and 4C of liquid (plus sugar) got pretty close to filling the Dutch oven last night, not full, but more than half and I want room to boil/stir.

16C sliced cored peeled (mine weren't) green tomatoes (my whole batch used 8C sliced, measured after salting and draining, 5lb raw)
1/2C canning salt (I only used 2T for 5lbs so could add 2T more if needed, but since it was only for draining and this recipe calls for rinsing maybe that's not necessary)

Layer tomatoes and salt, add cold water to cover, refrigerate 12 hrs to overnight (I only gave it 6 hrs, with the onions in the bowl too, no water, room temp)

Transfer to a colander placed over a sink, rinse well with cold water and drain thoroughly (I didn't rinse)

3Tbsp pickling spice (I used 1tsp each mustard seed, celery seed, whole cloves and allspice)

Tie spice in a spice bag (I used 2 tea balls)

In a large SS saucepan, combine 4C vinegar and 16C chopped peeled cored apples (here's the thing - I already have 2C of vinegar for 8C tomatoes - so do I use 2C of vinegar for 8C apples, and use all the tomatoes, or use 1C of vinegar, 4C of apples, and only use 2/5 or 1/2 of my pickles?).

Add drained tomatoes, onions and green peppers (my tomatoes and onions are already cooked and I don't want green peppers, prefer raisins). So do I skip this step?

Boil for 30 minutes. (so I do bring the apples and raisins to a boil in 1C of vinegar, then when tender add the quart of tomato/onion/vinegar sugar mixture and heat through? Or do I just dump the pickle jar(s) in the pot and cook the apples in that?)

Stir in 6C lightly packed brown sugar (already have 3C of firmly packed brown sugar for 8C of tomatoes - so add about 1.5C more if halving this recipe to use 4C tomatoes, 4C apples, 3C sugar? Or none at all? To taste?)

Reduce heat and boil gently, stirring frequently, for 30 minutes. Discard spice bag.

Ladle chutney into hot (pint) jars, leaving 1/2" headspace. Process 15 minutes (in BWB).

Any/all suggestions welcome! Thanks

I'm one of those folks who have eaten Fried Green Tomatoes all my life -- most southerners my age have.
This is the first I've heard of solanine and at 75 it's probably too late to change. If I gag next time I fry one ... .

kay

I am getting tired just thinking of all this, LOL.

Basically, if your onion is within the amount for a halved recipe of the BBB and you're not adding green peppers but using raisins instead, you should be fine.

Both apples and green tomatoes are acidic, the green tomatoes being more acidic, so if you change the proportions to include more green tomatoes and fewer apples than the BBB recipe calls for that's fine as long as it tastes OK.

The main thing is to have enough vinegar-sugar syrup that the chutney is not too dry. Since the product has already been thoroughly acidified with the previous cooking, it seems principally a matter of heating through and sufficiently to blend flavors and plump the raisins.

Your salt levels are not an issue, nor are the differences in time. You used less salt and didn't rinse while the BBB used more salt and did rinse. All-in-all the result is pretty much the same.

Salt, sugar, spices are all flexible in this recipe. It's an undiluted vinegar-sugar solution with a low level of onion, so you have some latitude without the safety concerns of a salsa, for instance.

So go by taste; when it tastes good and is the right consistency, jar it up. With a chutney there are fewer concerns with texture, so if your canner can't accomodate all you make, you could do two separate batches in the BWB with no problems.

I hope this helps. Things have gotten a little confusing, but what you're doing is no different than many previous-generation cooks who often created excellent recipes from what was essentially a salvage operation.

Take notes. You'll hate it if everyone loves what you came up with and you can't recreate it.

Carol

What's the old saying? "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." Not that the original recipe is a sow's ear, it isn't. It is really quite good. But water called for in the recipe is needed to dilute the color and make the brine sufficient. There is no safety issue involved since green tomatoes are very acidic unlike ripe tomatoes.

But it is going to be far too complicated, too much work, and a poor end result trying to turn this into chutney IMO. The two things just have very little in common.

If you really dislike the Sweet Green Tomatoes that much and you don't want to just toss them - it is a small amount after all - then just grind it all up and make it into Sweet Green Tomato relish, re-jar it in 1/2 pints and BWB for 10 mins. Easy to do and great for hamburgers and hot dogs, brats, italian sausages, etc. on the grill.

Dave

The breaker stage of a tomato, AKA "blush", is when the tomato begins to show even a hint of color change on the blossom end. Breaker tomatoes should not be used in recipes for green tomatoes as once the tomato "breaks" or "blushes" all the enzymatic changes required for ripening have already taken place inside the fruit. You can learn all about it by just Googling 'tomato breaker stage'.

http://www.lagorio.com/assets/pdf/lagorio-tomato-guide.pdf

above link is complete with pix showing various stages

Very informative. Thanks for sharing that. I just saved it to my computer.

Carol

I made dilled green tomatoes using my green cherry tomatoes. It did not call for cooking the tomatoes. I was told that I wanted truly green tomatoes for this, as any "breakers" would turn mushy and taste bad.

I also made green tomato chutney, that looked more like what you posted and required quite a bit of cooking, and turned out very tasty. I used green paste tomatoes for that, and thin sliced them. I like the way it looks too, with that sized sliced fruit.

Carol - sorry, I have a knack for confusing things. I figured salt, sugar, spices weren't an issue, just do to taste. I just didn't know if there was an issue with adding more onions, or if I only had sweet apples, or about the raisins. So can I just add apples in same proportions as tomatoes, skip any more onions, and add raisins and spices to taste, then BWB 15 min?

Dave - thanks, no time to Google things today and I saw breaker tomatoes mentioned here a few times. We aren't relish people, so it may be worth my time to try to turn this into a chutney. The brine is tasty, but the tomatoes didn't taste like much this AM - I'll taste again tomorrow. Like I said, the appearance is the only thing I have against it, and I don't know if I'll be able to *give* these away, but I can always give a chutney away here in Yankee yuppie-land ;-)

Kay - thanks for the link.

macybaby - what recipe did you use for your chutney?

If you don't fiddle with more onions you can do pretty much whatever you want with proportions of apples and green tomatoes, especially since it's undiluted vinegar we're talking about.

Carol

And raisins are OK? I don't want the green peppers the BBB calls for, so I'm safe there. Processing time the same as BBB recipe? Thanks

I just tried them again (wasn't sure how they'd be with taste of bagel and apple butter still in my mought, but I took a swig of coffee LOL). Yum! The extra 24 hours in the fridge let the brine penetrate the tomatoes better, and while I wouldn't call it a "pickle" (b/c I like crunchy pickles), it *is* very tasty! My dad eats spicy chowchow (the only one in the family who does) that my SIL brings up from NC, but he likes B&B pickles better than dills. So I'll give the PB jar (pint?) of these to him and see if he likes them, if so, I'll just reheat the quarts and process into pints for him. I don't know if anybody else here will get past the color of the brine. So I might have to make it into chutney after all, but I'll wait and see. At least until I have to put the halfsours into the fridge ;-)