Hi Ann,

I don't know whether the second recipe has enough acid. Seems like you'd only need enough for the onions since apples can be canned without added acid, but I don't know if the vinegar gets stuck in the apples instead of the onions or what. It looks to me like the recipes have similar amounts of apples (1 quart = 4 cups), it's just that the second one has twice the low-acid vegetable and one-quarter the vinegar. I hope Linda Lou weighs in on it, that's the only way I'd trust that recipe (or Carol, or Annie, or another allstar who goes by the USDA recommendations).

You can cut a chutney recipe in half. You can cut a regular-size jelly recipe in half too, you just can't double it. Generally you can add a bit of extra spice, but the total amount in this recipe is pretty large. I would try to keep it similar but not worry about an extra teaspoon, myself.

Melissa

Whoa, Ann. You may be comparing apples (pardon me) and oranges.

Note that the measurement types are different in the two recipes.

Take the apples. The BBB specifies 2 quarts. The other one calls for 9 cups---which is almost the same thing (4 cups=a quart), rather than the "almost twice as much" for the BBB you are reading. Similarly, the BBB calls for 2 pounds of raisins, while the other calls for 2 cups. A cup of raisins weighs approx. 6 ounces, which means the BBB would actually have 5+ cups.

So, for openers, make sure of your measurements when making either of these.

Looking at the amount of vinegar, sugar, and acid from the apples, I would think that the "Well Preserved" recipe is perfectly safe.

And yes, you can cut chutney recipes in half.

>it's just that the second one has twice the low-acid vegetable I don't think so, Melissa. Not when you compare them side by side. Below, the Ball figure comes first:

Apple: 8cups---9cups
Raisins: 5+cups---2 cups
Onions: 1 cup---2 cups
Peppers: 1 cup---0
Red peppers: 2--0

So, it looks like the Ball actually has less natural acid (from the apples) more than twice (actually close to 3x) the raisins, and a slightly higher amount of other low-acid foods.

Might explain why it calls for so much more vinegar.

Well, the BBB (thanks for the numbers, gardenlad) is roughly 13:2 high acid to low and the Dragan recipe is roughly 11:2. Apples range 3.9-3.3 pH; raisins range 4.1-3.8 pH. The onions and peppers are the issue. And the vinegar, of course.

I found a Bernardin recipe (also tested like the BBB recipe) for an apple chutney which has a ratio of 2:1 apples and raisins to onions and peppers (actually more like 2:1.5). If you followed the same proportions, you could safely double the onion in the Ball recipe and still have a good margin with that amount of vinegar. Not that I would, just saying what's possible.

I would feel comfortable making the Dragan recipe; I don't see a lot of risk. But that's purely personal and no one please sue me. I've had a sleepless night and I may have missed something.

Going back to the original post, though, the question seems to be more, can the spices be transposed from one recipe to another and does that affect safety? The answers are yes, they can be transposed and no, safety isn't affected. The spices in the second recipe are pretty standard for chutney.

My advice is to make the BBB recipe. Prep everything, but only put 1/4 of the batch into a pan and cook down with the spices you think you'll like. (Make notes!) Taste-test. Adjust. (Make notes!) Then if it's what you want, go ahead and cook the remainder; stir together and heat the entire batch and can.

This takes more time, but if you're playing with spices, it pays off in less risk. Or the other side of the coin, you create something you love but next season have no chance whatsoever of reproducing what you made because you can't remember what you did. (Not that I've ever done that myself.)

Carol

Oh! Doggone it! Good thing I was writing last night and not cooking! I know that there are 4 C to a quart, but for some stupid reason I was thinking there are 8! Sheesh. OK, thank you GL for the numbers.

Now that I look at it with those numbers, that seems like a lot of raisins in the BBB recipe. But I'll try it. I think you're right, Carol, the main thing I would like to do is change the spices. To me, the allspice just doesn't seem to fit with this, while the cumin and coriander will give it a more Indian taste. In the BBB recipe, the total amount of spices is 10 tsp. Do I need to stay within that amount? In other words, if I add one spice do I need to remove or decrease another?

Thank you all!

Ann

Oh, and Carol, I like your approach of making part first, tasting, continuing. It'll take longer, but probably worth it for future years.

As for keeping notes - I think I've told you I am a microbiologist. I have often compared doing lab work with cooking. The first time, you follow the recipe exactly. Then you start tinkering with it to make it exactly the way you want it. When you finally get it exactly right - make sure you write it down or you will never get it right again! Unfortunately, especially with cooking, I don't always follow my own advice.

Ann

GL, thanks for adding that up. I confess that I didn't notice the raisins or peppers at all, just focused on the onions. See, you are mathier than me!

Melissa

Not so, Melissa. Maybe I just read a little better. But don't depend on me counting past ten if I have to leave my shoes on.

Ann, since we're speaking of spices (dried) you can do whatever you like and not have to worry about changing anything else. Use as little or as much as you want in whatever combination suits.

You may be thinking of fresh herbs as opposed to dried spices. A cup of basil added to a sauce would need to be considered along with other low-acid ingredients.

I was curious about the cooking and processing times of the two recipes. Just looking at the two superficially, the second appears inherently more dense; my fruit mincemeat recipe is a combination of high-acid apples, pears, and dried fruits with sherry and brandy, but due to the density, it's BWB 30 minutes.

Carol

I forgot. You could also substitute other dried fruits for a portion of the raisins. Dried apricots, dried pears and/or a mixture of regular dark raisins and sultanas (golden raisins) come to mind. More complex flavors; might be prettier in the jar too with some golden notes.

Carol

Carol,

Both call for BWB 10 minutes. The BBB just says to "simmer till thick", the WP says to simmer 1 to 1 1/2 hours till thickened.

I LOVE the idea of dried apricots! I never would have thought of it, thank you so much!

I probably won't be able to do this till next week :(( I'm doing more applesauce tonight, then I'm out of town for the weekend. I will let you know what I did and how it turns out. I think this sounds quite tasty :))

Thanks for the ideas.

Ann