Shapes of canning jars & old, unused lids

14 years ago

Hi everyone,

Thanks to everyone for the invaluable information on this forum! This is my first post, in my first year of canning after lurking here all summer long.

I have a couple questions, first about the shape of jars. When making half-pints of a relish or chutney, I prefer the short wide salmon canning jars, the ones that are half the height of a pint jar, to the more slender half-pint jam jars. Now, after reading about heat transfer in Putting Food By, I wonder whether I should be processing these (BWB) according to the pint times instead of pint times due to the width of the jars. Any insight?

Also, I have a box of unused older SNAP lids that I got from a friend, the ones that recommend boiling for 5 mins as opposed to the newer ones that just say to hold in hot water. Any idea how old these actually are, and whether the sealing material might have degraded in this time? I'd rather toss them than save myself the $2.69 if there is a chance I'd ruin a batch of canning.

Thank you!

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Comments (5)

digdirt2
14 years ago
Any idea how old these actually are, and whether the sealing material might have degraded in this time?

Many years old and yes it may well have degraded. I'd pitch them rather than waste my time.

Now, after reading about heat transfer in Putting Food By, I wonder whether I should be processing these (BWB) according to the pint times instead of pint times due to the width of the jars. Any insight?

Now this part I don't understand. Pint times vs. pint times? I can only assume you mean pint times vs. HALF-pint times, right?

A half-pint jar is a half-pint jar regardless of shape - wide mouth or regular mouth - both the same. Processing times don't vary based on the shape of the jar. Wide-mouth and regular mouth jars can be used interchangeably with no problems. If your recipe calls for X mins. processing for half-pint jars then that is what you do.

If it calls for using pint jars but you are using half-pints then you don't change the processing time. You process them for the time given for pints even though they are smaller. This is because while it is safe to use smaller jars, you have no way of knowing how long to decrease the processing time. So you don't "guess", you use the time given even tho the jars are smaller.

But you don't go to BIGGER jars than called for in the recipe. In other words, if it calls for pints you can't safely use quarts and if it calls for half-pints don't use pints. OK?

For future reference, Putting Food By is a very outdated book and generally no longer recommended as it is not current. So it should be used with great care.

Hope this helps.

Dave
lisapat
Original Author
14 years ago
Yes, I did mean pint vs. half-pint, thanks Dave.

Yep, I am not as thrilled with PFB as some people I know, and I have noticed things in it that would be considered unsafe today. But I had insomnia the other night, and spent some time flipping through it.

Having said that, if you have PFB, there is an interesting section on p 43-44 on conductive vs. convective heating, and where "cold spots" can occur, with a little diagram to boot. It does mention that "squat" jars can take longer to penetrate. But since we're definitely moving towards a place of greater caution over the years, I'm glad to hear that this is not a common concern under current guidelines.

~ Lisa
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I am using jars that were my Grandmas, If she were alive today she would be 111 & I don't know how long she had used them. I always check for any nicks on the rim also do a visual to see if there are any cracks in the body of the jar. I don't worry about the older jars as much as I do the newer ones because they are thicker. The new ones are thinner & to me more fragile. My grandma even used the old glass jar that had coffee in them, a wide mouth lid fits them perfectly, granted she did not use them in a Pressure cooker. but used them to can her fruits, which she used the open kettle method. We still have a few jars with stuff in them stilled sealed tight. The stuff in them maybe mush but I still like to keep a few of them because of my grandma. I wash my jars in the dishwasher as I empty them, may sure they are dry put the flat & ring back on them to keep them clean till next time. That way all I have to do is rinse them out with hot water. Just so you know my Grandma done all her cooking and canning on a wood cookstove. She had one in the house & one outside so she wouldn't heat up the house in the summer.
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I also have never pressure canned jam, but I do use a boiling water bath. I don't even have to spend time sterilizing my jars if I process them for 10 minutes, and that actually saves me time. The NCHFP does say that it's better to sterilize the jars and process for 5 minutes, because the longer time sometime compromises the jell/set of the product. My Grandmother used to use paraffin, which was messy and time consuming and not consistent, and even she started to do her jelly in a boiling water bath, and that was at least 50 years ago. I know some of my elders (and I'm 64) used to just turn jars upside down and call it a seal, but they had some bad seals and some that didn't seal, others that were fine. If you want to eat that jar of jelly right away because it didn't seal, that works, but I want mine to actually seal and I think 10 minutes in boiling water is a small amount of time and effort to make sure that happens. This is what the NCHFP has to say: "Some other methods of sealing jars call for inverting a closed, filled jar of hot product for anywhere from thirty seconds to one hour. (Inverting is turning the filled jar upside down on its lid.) While this inversion process can be successful in producing a sealed jar, it works best with very hot product. Individual variation in practicing this procedure or unexpected interruptions can result in delays between filling jars, getting lids screwed on, and inverting the jars. If the product cools down too much, the temperature of the product can become low enough to no longer be effective in sealing jars or preventing spoilage. When the inversion process does work, the vacuum seals of filled jars still tend to be weaker than those produced by a short boiling water canning process. A larger amount of retained oxygen in the headspace may allow some mold growth if airborne molds contaminated the surface of the product as the jar was filled and closed. More complete removal of oxygen from the headspace also offers some longer protection from undesirable color and flavor changes with some types of fruit products. A weak seal may be more likely to fail during storage. The canning process is therefore a more foolproof method of making jams and jellies that will not spoil." Everyone has to make their own decisions, know the risks and make an informed decision as to whether those risks (whether health wise or loss of product or extra time) are significant enough to impact their procedure. I'll just keep on spending that 10 minutes with a boiling water bath, but you certainly may do whatever you wish. I make long cooked jam and jelly without any additional pectin, so I just don't find it to be that much work or so time consuming that it's egregious, and I've made thousands of batches of jams and jellies in the 55 years or so that I've been canning. Annie
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I just had to respond to this thread. I ran out of jars the other day...I reuse pickle jars to make my homemade pickles. I went to the recycling depot in town and found some pickle jars and cheese whiz jars that others had recycled and took them home, sterilized them and filled them up with cucumbers, dill, garlic and pickle brine this morning. If you wish to use jars for canning...just wash them well with soap and hot water and place them in a 200F oven for 10-15 minutes to sterilize them. Then they can be used for all sorts of things, especially home canning. I always run my finger around the top of the jar to make sure that there is no broken spots and that the edge is smooth and clean. I reuse the lids and rings all the time. Just put the lids in water in a pot on the stove and boil. The rubber on the edge of the ring will pop back and I will reuse them again. If there is any rust or question about the lid I will not reuse it. But, if it was just used for jam then usually there is no problem at all. Of course, the 'experts' will tell you differently...do NOT reuse. If there is any question re sealed product later you can tell by just tapping the lid. If it gives a high pitched sound it is sealed and a low sound and the ability to push the lid then it definitely is not sealed. If there is any jar that comes up from the pantry and it gives a low pitched sound the produce in it is thrown out, jar and lid checked for problems and dealt with accordingly. All rings can be reused again and again. They are just used to hold down the lid when the jar is hot so that the lid stays in place and will seal properly. I normally remove the ring once the lid is sealed. This is because if there is any moisture between the ring and the lid, then the ring will rust if left there. Then it can be hard to remove later. I never use glass jars in the freezer due to the chance of cracking and breaking them. I prefer plasticware like tupperware. If I make any sauces like applesauce, they go into a stackable clear tupperware container. Have fun with whatever you are making. I enjoy home canning and preserving of all kinds of fruits, vegetables and meat. I think the nicest thing is that you get the accomplishment of making it yourself, you use the produce that you grew and you know what is in it. Brenda
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readinglady
14 years ago
Dave's already addressed issues re jar sizes and PFB, so I won't deal with those.

I do have to say I've used very old lids (found them in my late MIL's stash) and had exactly the same 100% seal rate as new ones. If stored under good conditions they hold up very well. However, it isn't much money, and if you prefer not to take the risk, you aren't out much by ditching them.

Carol
annie1992
14 years ago
Like Readinglady, I've used some very old lids, given to me by my sister who does not can. They were at least 15 years old, probably more, but they all sealed and stayed sealed.

Frankly, I think the older lids had more sealing compound and sealed better than the new ones do.

Annie
lisapat
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks! Maybe I'll use them then, just not on my 30 min BWB $#@^% pickled beets.

~ Lisa

Shapes of canning jars & old, unused lids

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digdirt2

lisapat
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Shapes of canning jars & old, unused lids

Comments (5)

digdirt2

lisapatOriginal Author

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readinglady

annie1992

lisapatOriginal Author

COMPANY

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lisapat
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