IMHO the use of 'eyes' to describe emerging shoots is incorrect but that doesn't stop it from being in common Hosta parlance. I just spent a few minutes on Wikipedia to try and get some more information on exactly what constitutes an eye on a rhizome, but there was no mention of the word 'eyes' in this context.

Personally I use 'shoots' to describe emerging Hosta growth and it the very earliest stage I might even call them 'noses' but they use of 'eyes' to describe the shoots on a Hosta rhizome is so well ingrained amongst Hostaholics that it'll be very hard to buck that trend.

IMHO an eye is a single division which can sustain itself. It would contain a shoot(the furled leaves) crown and enough roots to sustain life. At last count my Sum and Substance had 25 eyes, although they are still in one clump as I have never divided it.

Dave

peter.. most hosta are not rhizomes ....

some are.. most arent ... i though anyway ...

the simple answer ... harry .. pips.. eyes .. little pointy things ... whatever ... buds ...

perhaps akin the the eyes on a potato ... eh???

no hostaphile is going to be confused in conversation.. if you use eyes ...

ken

Another link for you below.

Also FAQ at top of Hosta Forum may be useful.

Paul

Here is a link that might be useful: Eyes

Ken, before I posted about Hosta rhizomes I wanted to make sure I was using the correct nomenclature. To that end I referred to the W. George Schmid Hosta Species Update on the HL. In section 4B (Plant Size, Rhizome and Roots) George says that only 'conspicuously rhizomatous species' get special mention of this character. Specifically I was looking for whatever information I could find in scientific context of what we so often refer to as the 'crown' of a Hosta. Again, while in common parlance amongst Hostaholics, I could find no scientific reference to it.

As an aside, I was doing some dividing today and dug up two Golden Tiaras that were taking up space and divided the two into a dozen divisions to sell off in my carport plant sales this spring. None of us think of GT as having a stoloniferous growth habit (which in itself is an incorrect way of describing a Hosta growth habit), but take a look at the picture of one of the two clumps and you will easily spot the rhizome. Now where did that crown go? Nah, there was no crown, it's only a tiara..... hah, hah, hah....

GT .. by my definition is a prime example of stoloniferous ... which i take to mean.. underground stems .... its not really a term specific to hosta ...

i am not binding myself to thorough scientific explanations .... it was an admitted newbie asking ... and i gave him common parlance ...

if the books prove me wrong.. i respect that ... and your effort to find the truth .. its out there.. ya know.. lol ..

in the pic.. its stems vs a proper crown .. which define the difference ...

ken

Ken, I beg to differ.

A stolon is an ABOVE ground lateral stem that gives rise to new growth periodically along the stem, like strawberries for example. A rhizome is a BELOW ground stem that terminates in a shoot some distance away from the mother plant.

Stolons typically die a year or two after establishing a new plant, whereas rhizomes are used as a storage structure for nutrients and persist for the life of the plant. Both stolons and rhizomes are made up of nodes and internodes and the length of the internodes on rhizomes varies by species. The Golden Tiara cultivar just happens to have somewhat longer internodes, but that doesn't make it stoloniferous. It is much better to refer to this growth habit as 'stoloniferous-like' since Hostas will never have stolons.

Yes, I know I'm being pedantic -the curse of being a Virgo I suppose- but only the use of appropriate terms can best guide newbies. I'm not sure if common parlance serves any real purpose other to keep things confused and/or inaccurate. It's impossible to avoid however but when and wherever possible I personally try to point the subject in the right direction so a better understanding is formed. This is outside of the scope of the subject, but it's like people asking 'how many watts do these speakers have', well, truth is amplifiers have watts, not speakers.

eyes, noses, pips....whatever! We are not a research science team, we are friendly hostaholic forum members. Stop the arguing already!

Char

yes pieter ... you are correct ...

but when it all comes down to it.. most newbies.. especially in regard to hosta.. only need to plant them roots down .... lol ...

heck i have even throw deleted host upside down.. ON THE DRIVEWAY ... which would be roots up ... and the darn things just grow in a circle.. and then towards the sky ... lol ..

regardless ... rhizome.. or stolen.. plant them horizontally in the soil .. not DOWN .... they are akin to crown material.. which should be at or very near the surface ... not 6 inches down ... of course.. still with the roots off them down ...

though most of the type of plants we are talking about.. fall in the WEED group.. as in.. grow like weeds ...

ken

Ken, you're absolutely right, ROOTS DOWN, LOL. And Char, we're not arguing, we're having an exchange, a civil one at that, and I was simply trying to point a newbie in the right direction. Sooner or later common parlance changes with the times and the amount of information available. Heck, I'll bet plenty of us here will correct someone when they talk about plantain lilies and tell he/she that they're called HOSTAS these days. Now, how to pronounce that is a different story and a can of worms I'm not prepared to open.... heeheehee....

Ken,

Whatever we call the parts, I have to agree with you about their willingness to grow. I have 4 Halcyon Hostas. I had one before some work on the house a few years back. A backhoe was used to remove soil from the foundation. The next summer I found four little plants in the pile of leftover soil out back. Two were just laying on top of the soil, roots exposed, growing away!

yep harry ... i believe it..

now dont go starting another DEBATE .. about how to plural the GENUS hosta ...

i submit no S ... hosta is both plural and singular ....

i have a hosta garden.. with many hosta in it ...

char ... pete and i go way back [days.. if not weeks.. lol] .. no arguing at all ... anyone who can keep up.. will learn a lot ... or ignore it all and live in bliss ... it doesnt really matter to me ...

ken

now dont go starting another DEBATE .. about how to plural the GENUS hosta ...

You DO like to stick your finger in the socket once in a while, dontcha Ken.... so do I. To this simpleton, eyes are the little dimples you see on a tuber, like a potato's eyes. And you're absolutely right, Char, we're not a scientific research team, but that shouldn't stop us from using terminology that correctly describes what it is we're seeing. I see many highly respected Hosta people use the term, but just because they do doesn't make it the correct term. New Hosta offsets develop from apical buds on the rhizome to form new shoots. The shoots develop from buds, eyes are never involved, other than your own in observation of the process. This is one of those issues where I do and will continue to agree to disagree and I suspect I'm fighting a loosing battle, but, I'll continue to stand up for what me thinks is right.... until I'm proven wrong.

Thankyou Char and Ken,and Paul, the pie guy is probably correct? I guess if you are writing a term paper or some type of scientific journal you might want to be able to clarify this exactly, but when talking to NORMAL people growing a little hosta in there yard.......but who cares, when counting EYES I dont dig up my whole hosta to see what is growing underground. (do people flip over icebergs to see how much is under water?) I count what is comming out of the ground, and when you BUY hosta online Many growers specify EYES as growing tips. if some said I was buying a Hosta with 2 eyes it better have 2 growing tips!! or buds, or shoots!! it just better show 2 plants growing in that clump! I am not stupid, and who cares, that is not what the 1st question was about. to get this far off the intended question shows that someone here has contempt or dislike for another person and is tryng to belittle them, and confuse the person that asked the original question. and then you call this person (who ask the question) a SIMPLETON?????????? if I was new?(Iwould feel stupid and throw that hosta in the TRASH!!, I would never come back here again!! SIMPLE QUESTION!!!! how dare you!!!!!!!!!! everbody is here for info not alot of jargon which you give, and which does not help the SIMPLETON, and (oh, I hate to spell it wrong) Wikipedia, is not the end all be all, and the golden goose that laid the golden hosta!!

I am VERY sorry Harryshoe that you had to go thru all of this just to find out that in the NORMAL hosta jargon, that the word "eyes" really means "pointy new growth poking through the soil".

some people, not all, are quite anal in there description of anything here. and if those people should read this will they agree? after you asked such a simple question that could be answered with a YES or NO answer?

I am sorry for this long debate, it was a very simple answer.

Yes, the new growth pointing out of the ground are "eyes"(dont rely on the science, it doesnt count what is above ground) count them every year and you will be impressed how much they multiply (unless you totally neglect it or plant it under a maple tree)

AINT HOSTAS (shoot me for THAT plural somebody) GREAT!!

Paul

Feel better now, Paul? Still don't get it, do you?

harry said he came from the world of daylily ..

this simple debate ... is probably entertaining .. on some level anyway ...

compared to the take-no-prisiners ... flame-throwing.. nuclear war.. involved in the daylily world ... lol

i just heard on a gardening show.. that a scientist/professor declared .... that it doesnt matter how you pronounce it.. nor what you call it.. as long as the person you are talking too .. understands what the heck you are talking about ... kinda simplistic in its beauty ....

ken

PS: roberts rules of debate ... do not allow for calling your adversary a poopy head .. and thinking you win the debate .... i can provide a link if you like ...

I am actually a regular on the Rose Forum. AND, I am willing to state that the folks on the Rose Forum are the most anal, crazy and devoted on Garden Web, by far. Believe me, I've heard it all. Nothing said here requires an apology, although I appreciate the gesture Paul.

Pieter,
Thankyou for the "true" information. I will refer to it often. I do agree if definetions, answeres, or advice are going to be given they should be reliable and true. I found the debate ( not argument) informative and worthwhile. I respect your effort.

Somebody was asking a very simple question that only needed a very simple answer, and someone else had to give a difficult answer. and some one else here will kiss the ground that someone walks on (probably the same person) and go into all the detail that most people dont really care to here "hey George, how's it going? how many eyes, but non eyes, are growing on that hosta of yours?"

"Well Fred, let's get out my spade (or do most people call it a shovel? or maybe a back hoe?) and dig this bugger up and see what is growing under ground that we wont see come up until maybe next year?"

Paul

PS I got it.... and stepped on it.... and had many more eyes in the spring!!