And what if we DON`T get Ike and Josephine ?

Isn`t that what happen in the summer of 06 ?

The pattern of lake dumping / fish kills has been going on for a long time.

That is why we have flood insurance. I just don`t feel comfortable with

water management.

The reason is because the dykes are old, if they breach, it's another NO situation unbelievable flooding!! however last time they did get carried away, this time let's hope they know when to quit?

Doncha just HATE old dykes??

Poor Lake O has been having a rough time. For so long it was empty! It's finally back to norm for the first time in ages. I can appreciate there may be some weakness, but does everything have to be so drastic?

Hey, I've got an idea... let's stop building houses in flood zones!!! Oh, but ...cheap Florida land... just too much for developers to pass up. Let's drain more cypress swamps and put in gated neighborhoods! Can you tell I was driving through New Tampa today??? grrrrrr......

as teeka0801 recently said in one of the other storm threads,
"a very wise tree-nursery man told me once (speaking of a gated community that was basically filled in with dirt...was swampland prior) 'The ocean will take back what was taken from it'. I truly believe this.
eerie, but it's true...it will come back to haunt us. I think for New Orleans and some of Florida, it is time to give it all back."

Of course, in the near term, this is impractical to the point of imaginary... but it is the stark, absolute truth.

SusieQ has it right. They have been doing this since Katrina.

They also have regulations regarding the Cape Sable seaside sparrow during certain parts of the year, which makes them hold water in areas that shouldn't have so much water and then putting pressure on the snail kites. Single species management is the key term.

I was glad to finally hear WLRN (local NPR) say why they are letting the water out. They've been letting the water since before Faye.

It's a faux drought.

And just in case you don't know where that water goes, it gets dumped into the Indian River Lagoon, the most biologically diverse estuary in North America.

The lagoon was making a fairly triumphant comeback - we had seahorses, and you could "see bottom" again, the color was that lovely turquoise instead of dirty brown.

When the Army Corp. of Engineers opens the canal, that putrid polluted water makes its murderous migration through that marvelous lagoon and into the Ocean. I went to Stuart beach Sunday evening and a surfer said he came to see the waves produced by Fay, but wasn't going to risk an infection since the canal had been opened again.

So, yes, please, please, Coffeemom and everyone else, do tell the officials to "stuff it".

hi
Everyone read the account of the collapse of the dikes in the 30's Check the population and then multiply by at least 300. I know I'm a selfish person for sure but figure if I'm dead I'm not going to appreciate the clean water?? Why don't we instead of constantly grumbling come up with a real solution??? At least "casually" read
the engineering reports on the problem??? gary

Gary, I'll repeat, I'm not stupid. I understand the problem and after seeing what happened to the dikes in NO, no one wants a repeat of that here. But up until Fay every news report had to let us know how bad off the Lake was.We have gotten so much rain in Broward that before Fay they were flushing water from the canals into the ocean. You can only hold so much water here so why tell me we need to go to water restrictions all year round when we're growing mushrooms?
Even as we were getting all the rain from Fay there was always a footnote that the lake was still below the normal levels. So the rains came the lake went back to normal and I remarked to my DH that they'll prob want to lower it now. It took 2 weeks for them to decide thats what they had to do.
So they're reeking havoc on the environment and there is no guarantee that we will get any rain from these storms.
If they were happy with the lake at the lower level than why not shut up about it and quit banging us over the head, day after day, with lake level updates.
I personally feel that there's alot of information out there that they're just not giving us.(no, I'm not into X files) I for one would like to know when exactly would my watering plants take water from Okeechobee?
End of Rant.......must get coffee.....

Gary, no one claims that water management has a easy job... nor do they have a crystal ball.

The dyke is a disaster waiting to happen , and every time they dump water there are fish kills.

This has always been a hot topic.

Even though we arnt in a flood area, Steve and I have flood insurance. No offense , I just don`t trust water management.

I have seen many water soaked yards over the years with tropical weather.

People expect Florida to be something that it isn`t.

The land purchase from big sugar will help.

But lets face it ,It is so nice down here most of the time.

:)

Put me in the camp of I'm tired of them draining the damn Lake, for all the reasons above.

It's hard to compare the early 20th century to now. The Lake only had a small dike to begin with, it was after the hurricane that they built the huge dike. Furthermore, we didn't have the communication then. 1000's died because even though they evacuated they came back when they thought the hurricane wasn't coming.

You can't compare the Lake to N.O. either. N.O. is below sea level.

As far as solutions, I guess Crist has the answer in buying the 180,000 acres of big sugar. Not sure I agree with bankrupting a few cities to accomplish this, plus the fact that he still needs to trade for the parcel tract that actually touches the Lake. But I suppose that is another debate.

FYI: Don't jump on board with the land purchase just yet. It is a lot of checkboard patterns and they don't know where to get the money from. Which means, they are pulling MANY everglades restoration programs just to buy this land.

Misti, you're one of the people I think has a better grasp of what's going on. I don't understand why we should have to pay Big Sugar top dollar to quit messing up our environment and to go away.
1 question for you: if the Lake is only a back up, does my watering plants take water from the Lake or just the aquifer? Has South Florida ever used the water in the Lake as a backup and how would that work?
ok that's 3 questions. But thanks.

For one thing they should not allow motor boats on the lake, do you have any idea how much they polute?

Thanks for the info mistiaggie.

For the record I feel they had no reason to
let people build their homes so near the lake.

Same with the ocean.........

hence the term sea shanty,If it blows awayit aint
no frickin big deal.

Kristi , you haven`t been to my place yet ,but I have a very big retention pond on the lot.

I am also on a well. Do you realize that my yard can be bone dry and yet I can`t pull water out of my pond ?

Now , I certainly would not be doing anything stupid like fertilizing.... just keeping my plants hydrated.

The strange thing is this past year was the highest the pond has been in the winter / spring in a long time.

and I could not use it.

I gotta stop looking at this thread... my blood pressures up LOL !

Kristi,

From what I understand, the lake, through the Everglades, recharges the Biscayne Aquifer from which we draw our water. So it's not technically our back-up, it's the front-end of the system. When it gets too low, the Everglades gets too low and the aquifer doesn't get properly recharged. So we need to pull less water out of the aquifer during those times, even if the aquifer isn't technically low yet.

We already have salt intrusion in coastal Broward, and if that happens farther inland, we'll all just have to move I'm afraid.

But I agree with you that the system doesn't seem to be managed well. Too much is dumped at a time, then nothing is dumped at all some other times. It's not the way this water system evolved and works best.

The lake water also recharges Big Sugar's irrigation canals south of the lake. I've never seen a study on how much goes to them and how much to the Everglades and ultimately our aquifer, only because that's not the part of the news I cover. I'm sure there are studies out there. But I suspect the aquifer doesn't get what it should.

Of course, we could live in Georgia, where the governor's response to a drought was to pray for rain and blame it on Florida, because we actually have water management. I agree, our water management isn't the greatest, but it seems to me it's better than none at all.

My real concern is that the interests of industrial agriculture seem to be trumping the interests of the Everglades, the people who live here, and wildlife that was here before us. But that is also a factor of the people we put in office, because the plants don't vote (though in Dade, one could argue we could find better voters among the flora than the fauna.)

All that said, I try not to water my garden any more than absolutely necessary, and use rain barrels and plant really hardy stuff. It seems like a luxury to me in a world, not just a state, but an entire world, where fresh water is increasingly precious.

Susannah

Sorry this is from the other newspaper Susannah, but reading stuff like this makes my blood pressure jump like jupiterplants. It's like they can't make up their minds. If you read it all the way through, you come to the warning that the Lake is still low. Little did they know it was about to go up 3+ ft.
I never water my lawn in the rainy season and only water the plants that need it which isn't too often. BUT it didn't matter because that "increasingly precious" water we might have saved got sent to the ocean.

This part makes no sense.

"The lake remains low because of back-to-back years of drought, preceded by the Army Corps' decision to lower the lake level in 2006 in reaction to forecasts of a busy hurricane season that didn't materialize."

Isn't doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome the definition of insanity?

Here is a link that might be useful: August 20th

I go to meetings and have coworkers that go to meetings with the SFWMD, state and other entities all the time about these issues. Did you know their research on the sparrow is flawed? Yet, the park insists on still holding water in the conservation area instead of letting it flow south.

There are a lot of things that the general public does not know about the state/SFWMD. I'll see about getting more details for you.

We'll be looking forward to your posts mistiaggi! I know for sure that we are getting screwed by SFWMD and Army Corps of Engineers here at the dumping point for overflow water. It's a travesty.

The Big Sugar Deal is a politically motivated deal, as it has been for many, many years. I have heard, and I am not an expert here, could be some idiot blowing off steam on the internet, that big sugar was motivated to sell off land becaus of inproprities on their P/L statement.

I wish I had taken more pictures of the recovery of the Indian River Lagoon. What they are doing is a travesty to mother nature.

Hi
This post is getting way to politcal but it's making my blood boil!!! Has any bothered to read the COE report ?????
How about the slightest history of the Lake What is the function of the lake.
The results of the 10 year over 1 billion dollar lawsuit
I find it absololutely unbelieveable. That not one person mentioned ANY human use for the lake Nor the slightest interest in how many people are being thrown out of work. Yet at the same time they say the need to drain the lake.
I won't comment again as it made me sooooo mad I wanted to sens a LARGE check to Rush Limbaugh !!
Come on people read as least onje report????
gary

No Gary, I haven't read the COA report but if you want to give me the "cliff notes" synop I'm game.
My original complaint has to do with water restrictions and the hoops SFWMD has us jump thru. It seemed hypocritical.
Let me explain it in my "soccer mom" voice.
I have 5 young children and a gal of milk. I tell them we need to make it last or we will run out. The kids complain but understand and use as little milk as possible.
Then My DH brings home milk. My MIL shows up with milk and so does my mom.
So I take the milk we were conserving and dump it down the drain.

Gary , I just read you last post VERY CAREFULLY.

Here it is.........

"I find it absololutely unbelieveable. That not one person mentioned ANY human use for the lake

Nor the slightest interest in how many people are being thrown out of work.

Yet at the same time they say the need to drain the lake"
===========================================================================================

I know my eyes are getting older but I feel the mood of the thread is in agreement with you .

Great care need to be taken when reading these post. Not a time to " speed read " !!!!!!!!!

I took the title of this post as sarcasm.

But I may be wrong............. :)

"I have 5 young children and a gal of milk. I tell them we need to make it last or we will run out. The kids complain but understand and use as little milk as possible.
Then My DH brings home milk. My MIL shows up with milk and so does my mom.
So I take the milk we were conserving and dump it down the drain."

This is a perfect example and why so many people get pissed. When you can see our local canals damn near overflowing and still tell people water is critical don't use any of it - it's a bunch of b.s. Then to open the gates and just run it into the ocean?

Gary,
It irritates me that the state was already in the process of building a reservoir at something like $25mill a month? ....and we put that project on hold AND we still have to pay the builders, since Crist came up with the big sugar deal.
Frankly, I hope the big sugar deal falls through. It was done a little to secretly for my tastes, and it has been poorly thought out. No mention of where the money to purchase is coming from, no mention of where the money will come from for restoration and no thought at all about the economic impact on Hendry, Glades and Palm Beach counties.

Gary,

Again just my understanding from what I've read, but it seems to me that a healthy lake that isn't being overly manipulated _ drained until it's dry then allowed to fill until it has to be drained again _ would help most of the people who make their livings on or near the lake. The people who run bass fishing tours have been devastated in the past few years. And the boating and fishing in the St. Lucie River has been a mess too.

A lot of the draining that was done in 2006 was done to protect people from having their homes and farms flooded, but it didn't do that because we can't simply predict how many storms we'll have. Wouldn't it be better to restore the lake and the surrounding area to a more balanced system that can take care of itself, and not flood people's homes or dump fresh water that we need into the ocean?

I've covered a lot of floods, including deadly ones like Katrina in New Orleans and the 2004 floods in Haiti, which killed more than Katrina did. Believe me, I've seen what can happen to people. But both of those were aggravated, if not outright caused, by mistakes people made over the years trying to manipulate giant systems nature had devised over thousands of years.

So send the check if you like, but understand, I think most folks here are on your side, if not Rush's side.

Susannah

On draining the lake-
There's so much water coming through Ft Lauderdale right now that the canal water is almost over the top of the dock here. Crazy! I had to get out a cooler to step up on to get onto the boat to do some work today. Yipes! Just amazing how much water is coming through, how fast, right now.

girlsaylor

"LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR...
doing my Nixon voice with 2 handed peace signs and head shake.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THEY SHOULD DRAIN THE LAKE.
I was being sarcastic.
sorry

No need to be sorry !

I must confess, I LIKE sarcasm.......

I guess I have been married to my DH tooooooo long !

This has been a lively, thought provoking post. I am SO GLAD that you guys do not agree with the Army Corps. draining Lake O.

The Sardines in the lagoon are probably dead by now after 8 days of that puss coming in. Yes, we have sardines, no wait: had them. Shrimp and oysters? They may make it a little longer before they suffocate. And if you happen to fly over the St. Lucie inlet, or ride by in a boat, you will now see a brown teapot spilling into the Atlantic Ocean. It makes me want to cry. The storms make us have respect for Mother Nature. I just wish the same due respect was given to her by the authorities who have the power to screw with her.

Yes, Gary, I read that 2" thick report.

Morning all,

Just wanted to give my Sunday observation on water levels here in Ft Lauderdale.

At Andrews Ave bridge, this morning's low tide is at 9:09 this morning. We're about 1/2 mile from there, up river, for reference sake, closest bridge is Davie Avenue bridge.

I was just out to the dock, and the water is about 2-2 1/2 feet higher than normal for low tide. Normally at low tide, I can step directly from the dock across to the lowest point on the gunnel, even height. This morning the gunnel is sitting 2-2 1/2 feet higher than the dock, and it's pretty much slack tide right now, 8:28 AM.

This is not a scientific observation, folks, but mere observation, so that the citizens of this state have the bigger picture of what's happening with Lake O.

I *may* know better when I observe high tide at 3:00 this afternoon, as to whether the draining off is still going on, at the same rate or less...

Not wanting to stir things up, but all interested citizens should pay attention to the far-reaching effects of the water management, not just Lake O and it's immediate surrounding area.

Have a happy day!

girlsaylor

Wow, am I the only one with a vision for the future?

1. Drain the lake, completely, every last drop.
2. Build a community at the bottom of the lake large enough to hold a million people.
3. Build a waterproof domb over the community.
4. Move everyone from New Orleans to this new community (they like being underwater anyhow.)
5. Seal the domb and refill the lake.
6. Open the dikes in New Orleans, flatten them.

Problems solved: We no longer have to worry about New Orleans, Lake Okeechobee (the added volume of the community will require much less water to keep the lake filled), or any of the idiots who like to live below sea level.

Ah...like I don't get it.....are you trying to be sarcastic?

"snicker"

LOL...sorry, but THAT was funny, Fawnridge!

Don't forget to include the people who build and buy the million dollar homes built on the barrier islands, aka: sandbars...."oh, we haven't had a hurricane in a long time! Don't worry! You'll be fine..."