Hi Cath, it's entirely possible, though I've not read of it. I do know Judge Henry Fonda, who lived in Mar Vista by Santa Monica and operated a small nursery at his home for several years, unsuccessfully tried Cl. Mlle. Cecile Brunner for standards. Nothing took for him and he theorized it was due to "genetic incompatability". I know Ralph Moore brought in the rose known as Moore's South African OGR with the intention of trying it as a stock, but it didn't work, either. He stated the wood was too hard and the bark refused to "slip", lift easily enough for buds to be inserted. I have no information whether he tried the chip budding technique Burling uses or not. With as many thousands who have played with roses over just the past century alone, I'm sure someone may have had your idea, I just don't have knowledge of or information about whether it has been tried nor whether it worked or not. I do know many things have been tried. A friend received Austins from Hortico back in the eighties and nineties whose suckers were definitely Bride's Dream, which Hortico flatly refused, but that's what grew from the suckers on those roses. I've tried quite a few things myself, including Cardinal Hume (which works splendidly), and Festival Pink, my solid pink sport of Festival Fanfare, the striped sport of Fred Loads. That one worked pretty well and developed very thick, nearly self supporting trunks, but sun burned very badly in my climate which made it less than suitable. I had previously found this in the 1920 ARS annual about someone in Florida budding Druschki on Mme. Plantier, though it's been theorized by others what was meant was probably Odorata or Fortuniana. Who can say for sure? If you have the rose in question and want to try it, the information would be quite interesting to report back to us here on the forum. Who knows? Perhaps you might stumble on the next great discovery? Good luck! Kim

debn, I really would like you to get your 'Anna Olivier' because the roses from a Santa Cruz bush, of an Anna Olivier that were brought to the Old Rose Celbration were full of petals, a marvelous blend of deep peach, apricot-yellow and rich pink roses, the most fragrant Tea rose I've ever smelled, of fruit and rose. I encourage you to ask for permission to take cuttings, and from my own experience, I've learned to tell a little about myself so that the supervisor will be assured I will not be hacking a rosebush. I've been given permission to take rose cuttings by the supervisors of 3 out of 3 public rose gardens, that I asked, after writing to them and telling them that I've grown hundreds of different roses over the years and that I'm interested in propagating and conserving Old Roses. -I'd treat their rosebushes with the utmost care and respect. -I promise to take no more than 3 cuttings per square yard of plant. This is far less than is removed when most roses are pruned, and the little growth I would take, will typically grow back by summmer. -I promise to take cuttings from only non-patented roses. I ask the supervisor to sign the paper so I can show it to the groundskeeper or whoever is in charge on site at the garden. signed___________________________________________ all three supervisors at the 3 gardens, let me take as many cuttings as I wished and one man told me I could return year after year to take cuttings. I've propagated more than 80 rosebushes from those cuttings and given many new plants away. Best wishes Luxrosa

olyagrove, tooooo funny about taking them to the swap and little interest was shown. I've done that myself. About five years ago, someone gave me a plant. Didn't know what it was; wasn't that interested, and it barely survived. I mean BARELY, because I completely neglected it. So this past winter, I finally take a picture and post it on the succulent website. Turns out, it is an orchid cactus (epiphyllum). After I saw the pictures of others in bloom, my attitude became "WOW! How cool!" Now I am loving this little stepchild, nurturing him along and hoping he will bloom. Take seedlings to the next swap and I bet they will be more popular now. :) Here is a link that might be useful: Images of blooming orchid cactus - if you are interested

Nik, I do think it's too soon to tell much about such an immature plant; especially without any close-up photos of leaves, buds, thorns, etc. I did suggest 'Rose Edouard', but I meant that to be a starting place for exploration, certainly not as a definitive ID. I wondered if the rose 'Palmyre' might be called that because at one point that was a scion that didn't survive. 'Rose Edouard' and 'Céline' are two popular Bourbon rootstocks that often survived the roses grafted onto them, and early descriptions of 'RE' and 'Céline' both seem like good candidates. The HMF photos for both roses seem to me to not match up too well with the early references, but others may disagree. 'Céline', incidentally, was described early on as both a Hybrid Bourbon and a Hybrid China. I believe that William Paul started out calling her a Bourbon or Hybrid Bourbon, but then began calling her a Hybrid Chinese. Virginia