The following statement was made: "Most of the neem oil products are probably no more effective than salad oil." --------------------------------------- I agree, but how can one tell which Neem products are not part of this "most"? Answer: Look at the active ingredient. The active insecticidal component of neem oil is a chemical called azadirachtin. If the label states azadirachtin (in at least a 1.5 % concentration), the product should be effective against common rose insects when applied as directed on the label. However, if the label only states: "clarified hydrophobic extract"; then the product will probably only work by smothering and you might as well be spraying salad oil. Here is an example of a scientific study concerning the two-spotted spider mite : Title: Uptake, translocation, persistence and fate of azadirachtin in aspen plants (Populus tremuloides Michx.) and its effect on pestiferous two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) Authors: K. M. S. Sundaram, R. Campbell, L. Sloane and J. Studens Authors affiliation: Forest Pest Management Institute, Canadian Forest Service, Natural Resources Canada, 1219 Queen Street East, Box 490, Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada P6A 5M7 Published in: Crop Protection, Volume 14, Issue 5, August 1995, Pages 415-421 Abstract: "A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A) was applied to the soil around the root system of potted aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) plants. The uptake, translocation, persistence and dissipation of the chemical in the plants were studied. The effect of foliar residues of AZ-A on two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) populations was also evaluated. The compound was taken up by the root system within 3 h and translocated in the stem and foliage within 3 days, confirming that AZ-A is systemic. The peak concentrations (/g, fresh weight) of AZ-A occurred at 10 days post-treatment, and were distributed in roots, stem and foliage in the ratio of 8.1:1.0:2.3, respectively. The rate of dissipation of AZ-A from the matrices was moderately rapid, and the residual concentrations on the last day of sampling (50 days post-treatment) in roots, stem and foliage were in the ratio 2.7:1.0:1.2, respectively. Control of mites by AZ-A residues in foliage was statistically significant, and the bioactivity declined within 30 days. The final residue of AZ-A in the soil after 50 days was about 25% of the initial value, with a half-life of dissipation of about 26 days." ----------------------------------------------- The following link leads to a 2005 Ph.D. Thesis: http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=979446007&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filename=979446007.pdf Here is a link that might be useful: link for Sundaram et.al. abstract

Patty, my interest is not in an argument, so I will make one further comment and then yield to your expertise. I agree with and enjoy most of your postings, I just do not agree with this one... You recommended that the original poster: quote: "Set the little ant bait traps in your pot, and on the ground around your pot. The ants will take the bait back to their nest (which is in your pot) and will die." The entire amount of the miniscule amount (that has the ability to wipe out a nest, so say you), if laying on the surface of the soil in the container, has the potential to enter the soil. I have never read anything written by Vince Lazaneo, and doing a brief search on the subject with his name and the issue of using ant bait in and around container citrus, I came up empty. Certainly not an exhaustive search, but I would be interested in reading it if you have the reference or a link to the article. Looking at the boron concentrations in fertilizers with minors and in liquid minor additives, I note that the rate of boron is miniscule before dilution. Miniscule before dilution is indeed extremely miniscule after proper dilution. I will end with saying that my caution still stands, and I would not recommend it. I would say especially with a young seedling, however that might imply that my recommendation would be lax for anything more mature, which is not the case. My assumption is that the original poster, who cares enough for this little seedling to seek advice from this forum, wants to save this little tree from ants. I am sure that he/she does not want to risk killing it with the cure. Barb

Steve, I don't have Chemlawn for the perfectly manicured yard. I don't use miracle grow, I have a compost pile to enrich my gardens. I don't use rubber mulch, or colored mulch. I don't use slug bait, or vole bait, or chipmunk bait I have a dog to worry about. I don't shoot deer even though they are a huge problem here in NE Ohio. And... I don't use those disgusting japanese beetle bags. I said 7 because it is an insecticide people know of, oops big mistake. Actually last year after blasting with water, spraying with soapy water, I used Ecosence. It is still an insecticide and probably just as bad as 7, but sounds friendlier and my plants were happier. I did not use it on my hosta, but they do get aphids and look sickly. I went so far as to take a larve infested tree leaf to our local dept. of agriculture, thinking they could help, but they were some kind of wasp galls not aphid. Google aphids on hosta. My 2 Twilights already have ants on them probably from the honeydew from the aphids. I am not a scientist, or horticulturist, just a friendly backyard gardener trying to leave a clean footprint and a few beautiful gardens behind. It could be from my trees, soil, or compost. I don't know and thought maybe someone else has encountered a similar problem and has a good ecofriendly solution. Happy gardening! WW P.S. Yes, I am inquiring about lady bugs.

maifleur, the products you've mentioned are NOT baits, which I clearly (I hope) specified. Ant BAITS will be carried on a dry, inert granule. These particles are manufactured to be attractive to foraging ants, who will carry them to the nest. Once ingested, the bacterium can infect the nest residents. Spinosad is not proprietary, and can be found in lots of different products manufactured by many companies. I urge everyone to come label readers! A quick search for BAITS containing spinosad came up with the following: Green Light Ant Bait with Conserve, Safer Brand Fire Ant Bait, Fertilome Come and Get It, PayBack Ant Bait. There are probably more. As with all products, the safety and efficacy is all about the proper use. Anything, no matter how benign, can be used in an unsafe manner. I urge everyone to read and follow all label directions. Minna, ant baits will not be effective against sawflies. The key to success with using the Safers's Insecticidal soap is to mix it according to the directions and apply it to the location where the sawflies hang out. If you spray in the evening, it will stay wet for a longer period of time. It's effective only when wet. Sawflies are also pretty easily sprayed off with a strong spray of water from the hose. They're a favorite treat for a wide variety of hungry helpers.