For us that would be too many carrots. Also, my Aunt used to say only FRESH beef should be used in anything canned - never frozen if you really want a good taste after canning. You can always add more seasoning when you heat the stew.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I am making this to take on a fishing vacation, so options for seasoning after opening will be limited to what I pack and bring with me... as little as possible.

We like carrots so I'm not concerned about that.

This meat is from a side of grass-fed beef we ordered and it came frozen - sometimes you really don't have a choice.

Can I safely substitute stock for the water? That's the main question - I'm aware that I can add more dried herbs, that was a flavor concern rather than one of safety.

Yes, I would add stock if I were making it. It won't affect the safety. The only thing I don't care for is the texture of the potatoes. If I did add them, I would use either red or Yukon gold instead of Russets. Russets are too grainy and mushy for my taste.
Plus, I would add them just towards the end of heating to get hot and not overcooked before they go in the jars.
The texture of the meat will not be any different once frozen and canned. If anything, it will be more tender, as the meat fibers have been broken down a bit by freezing.

Agree with using the stock rather than water. Also you can can additional seasonings to taste before canning if you wish just as long as you use dried herbs only (not fresh). We like a bit of bay leaf and garlic added to ours and if you like Italian seasonings there is something really good about Italian Beef Stew too with mixed Italian seasonings added.

But keep in mind that some herbs will really intensify in flavor during the storage so don't over do it.

Dave

Thank you thank you thank you, Linda and Dave - that's just what I hoped (and nearly expected) to hear. When the nearly-useless search function was even working today, it got me nowhere. I already knew I can't go ahead and can the same stew I would cook for dinner.

There is no refrigeration, electricity, etc. at the lake we vacation at, and cooking is via wood stove, so tasty-and-portable is key. We don't "do" freeze-dried hiking rations on vacation - we eat things like roast duck, but who wants to really cook after spending all day in a float tube catching 2 to 5-pound trout? Stew used to be something I would make from leftover shish kabob if it was too ugly out to go fishing. Canning has opened entirely new culinary vistas. :-)

Are there any issues with not using the onions. I have a high allergy to onions, but nothing else in the recipe. I haven't been able to find a proper canning recipe that didn't either allow the exclusion of onions or a substitute to make it safe for canning. Thanks,

D

draupnir - you can safely leave out the onions. Since they are low-acid anyway eliminating them from the recipe poses no safety issues. But leaving them out does NOT allow you to increase or substitute other ingredients. Follow me? Keep everything else the same, just leave out the onions. ;)

Dave

PS: and of course, no added thickeners would be allowed.

Thanks Dave keeping everything else the same as I prep it now.

Why can't other ingredients be increased or substituted? It still has to be pressure canned for the length of canning the meat. It seems to me that more meat or more vegetables wouldn't change that. No thickeners or grains can be used, but that's true to can any recipe.

Why can't other ingredients be increased or substituted? It still has to be pressure canned for the length of canning the meat.

Because you would change both the density and the pH. That would invalidate the processing time. More dense means less heat penetration and poor heat penetration plus more low acid ingredients equals potentially unsafe food.

Just because something is pressure canned doesn't guarantee its safety. You still have to control for the density and the pH to make it safe.

Dave

"draupnir - you can safely leave out the onions. Since they are low-acid anyway eliminating them from the recipe poses no safety issues. But leaving them out does NOT allow you to increase or substitute other ingredients. Follow me? Keep everything else the same, just leave out the onions. ;) "

Although this argument is frequently used, I'm not entirely sure that it is correct.

By way of example, a stew recipe with 1 cup each of meat, carrots, onions, and celery would be
25% meat
25% carrots
25% celery
25% onions.

Each of these ingredients has a certain size, density, heat penetration rate, pH, etc which contributes to the overall density, heat penetration rate, pH etc of the finished product.

Now suppose we remove the 1 cup of onions but leave EVERYTHING ELSE THE SAME as is frequently urged.

Our stew is 1 cup meat, 1 cup carrots, 1 cup celery or
33% meat,
33% carrots
33% celery.

Clearly the relative proportions of the ingredients have, in fact, changed; and their relative contribution to the overall density, heat penetration rate, pH, etc will also have changed.

For example, our new "onion free" stew has a higher proportion of meat. Perhaps the meat is the component of the original stew which heats most slowly. We now have a greater relative amount of the slowest heating ingredient.

On the other hand, perhaps the onions have the greatest contribution to overall stew heating rates. Then our new "onion free" stew would, probably be (slightly or more) overprocessed as all the other ingredients would now heat more quickly without the slowly heating onions.

As is frequently said, we just don't know what such a substitution - or deletion - or addition - will do without testing the new stew recipe.

I am not saying that the OP cannot safely remove the onions. However, I am giving us all food for thought about changing recipes without having them tested, and assuming that some changes will be ok based on assumptions rather than empirical evidence.

Sharon

Sharon - we are talking about using recipes that are already tested and approved, not hypothetical recipes. In those cases leaving out 1 low-acid ingredient not only makes the recipe LESS low-acid but also less dense IF the remaining ingredients called for in the recipe are left the same.

In your example recipe above you left out 1 of the primary ingredients - the liquid called for in the original recipe. So proportionately there would be less solids and relatively more liquid in the finished jars. So it would be slightly more acidic and less dense.

Dave

OK, Dave,

To use the exact original recipe, leaving out the onions represents removing 11% of the total vegetables. (3 cups removed from an original total of 26 cups). This is not an inconsequential amount of vegetables to remove.

If you assume that one pound of stew meat is about 1.5 cups of cubed meat, removing 3 cups of onions removes 9.4% of the total solids. Again, not an inconsequential amount.

Further, as ALL the ingredients in the original recipe have a pH well above the threshold for pressure canning, removing - or adding additional - ingredients in this pH range will not change the pH into the acidic values. The argument that you are removing a low acid ingredient may work in an overall acidic solution with some higher pH additions (such as salsa or relish), but adding or removing any of the ingredients in this recipe will not move the pH across the threshold to acidic. And for food safety purposes, a food with pH of "just barely low acid" or a food that is "absolutely positively basic with a pH of 10" must be treated in the same manner - pressure canning. The small change to pH (if any) that adding or removing onions from this recipe would not allow additional food safety as the product will still be in the appropriate range to growth our botulism.

Processing times will be determined by the host of other factors already discussed here at length in many posts (solid to liquid ratio, density, intrinsic heat penetration qualities, etc). And these factors will most certainly be influenced by the removal of 9.4% of total solids/11% of vegetables.

But as I've also said, I am most certainly not telling the original poster that it is not safe to remove the onions. I am saying that none of us have tested the recipe without the onions (to the best of my knowledge)so none of us KNOW that it will be safe. We are speculating, and the OP deserves to factor that into consideration.

Sharon

Interesting conversation. I've contemplated deeply on the consequences of leaving out an item in certain recipes, too. Sharon says leaving out onions removes 11% of total veggies.. equaling 9.4% of solids. However deleting onions removes a fair amount of liquid too, since if I remember, mature onions carry approximately 86% to 89% moisture. Wouldn't that mean a higher concentration of solid matter not less, in the absence of the onions?

Also the recipe doesn't call for an exact amount of water/liquid just water to cover. Doesn't that mean the solids to liquid ratio would change with the absence of one ingredient? However, since you can meat with the jar full of meat and that certainly seems more dense than onions would at the same time/pressure..... ???confusing. Wish more recipes would be available and more research done on many more recipes. How do we encourage more recipes to be developed for canning ? I want more options! :>)

Not for nothing, and I don't know much, but what I have read on several county extension sites is to process according to the time it takes for a certain food.

So if you have a stew containing veggies, beans and meat. You are going to process the whole thing according to how long it takes to process the ingredient that takes the longest.

The only place I have found people worrying or talking about ph is in water bath canning or on sites like this one.

No offense, but I'm getting really tired of so many different resources saying so many different things.

Isn't the whole point in pressure canning something because of the low acid?

Is it OK to add a splash of wine? Pinot Noir goes really well with beef and thyme and it would sure dress that recipe up. Sorry, it would probably be good for camping, but that's a dull stew recipe.

I'd want a touch of garlic in it, too, and apparently OK to add dried garlic powder.

I'd take a bit of flour or cornstarch along camping to thicken it when it was being heated, just before serving.

When camping, my kids loved Bannock bread. Basically, it is biscuit dough, but you pat it into a patty and fry it in a cast iron skillet over the wood fire. That would sop up that stew gravy really nicely.

Wine is acid and isn't a problem used in lieu of broth or water. Check KatieC's Beef Burgundy at the link for an example. KatieC is a master food preserver. IIRC, she works with Idaho Extension. Her recipes are reliable.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: KatieC's Beef Burgundy for Canning