I second Jim's motion. For that use, the only thing you need is the meat. Don't even salt it.

As a general rule, things you'll be using often, in various combinations with other things, should not have an overpowering flavor. That gets old pretty quickly, because soon enough everything tastes the same.

You can run the seasoning changes after the fact. That is, for a stew add salt, pepper, and other seasonings they might carry to the stew, rather than to the jerky or other raw ingredients.

Also, for this sort of use in particular, make sure to dry the jerky at a low temperature so it will rehydrate. If you cook it (cooking generally takes place at 165 degrees) it won't.

We could write a book about backpacking foods, and when certain things do or do not make sense. For instance, there are things I would carry on a weekend outing that I wouldn't consider for a long-distance pack trip. And vice-versa.

Soy is the used mostly because it contains the proper amount of salt to cure the jerky. It also has a flavor that enhances beef somewhat. There are other jerky mixes you can buy that are mixed with the meat and its dried. The link below has a couple of jerky mixes that are also good with venison. Without salt, the meat can spoil. Salt is very necessary for most dried meats, unless they are made comercially in a sterile enviornment and kept that way until totally dry. Keep in mind that if you do add salt, that it doesn't evaporate once dried, so don't over salt.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sausage Maker

It is not recommended to try to lower the salt content when drying meats as jerky.
From National Center For Home Food Preservation:
Can I safely make a meat jerky without salt? Making low-salt jerky is not recommended. The salt binds the moisture in the meat and thus any bacteria on the meat are more quickly killed because they do not have water available to them.

Linda Lou,

I accept what you say about using salt on jerky. I understand the idea of depriving bacteria of water. But the concept of salt "binding" the moisture in the meat is unfamiliar to me. Can you elucidate?

Jim

The best jerky I've made is salt, wild plum juice, a bit of cayenne and ground black pepper. Not that you would want to re-hydrate that for stew.

I thought the salt helped draw the moisture from the cells in the beef muscle, as well as act as a preservative.

>The salt binds the moisture in the meat and thus any bacteria on the meat are more quickly killed because they do not have water available to them.Well, Big Brother knows best, I'm sure. But the whole idea is to remove the moisture, not bind it inside---which is why it's called "drying".

This is one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever heard; and if it's an example of their science I'd sooner take my chances with open kettle canning.

I reckon we all better start salting our tomatoes and other fruits before we dry them. And John needs to apply lots of salt to all those chili peppers he dries. Otherwise we're creating hotbeds of death and destruction.

Drying meat is the oldest form of food preservation, and goes back at least 10,000 years that we know of. For most of those years jerky (in all its various forms and names) was made without adding salt. The reason drying works is that it removes the water, thus creating an environment that isn't condusive to bacterial growth.

Smoking is a variation of drying. But some insist it's a separate process, because the chemicals in the smoke can effect a cure. Therefore, it is the second oldest. Modern smoking is most often associated with salt-cured foodstuffs. But originally it did not entail the use of salt.

Salting/Brining, depending on which authority you accept, is either the third or fourth oldest means of preservation. Basically, salting/brining and fermentation were discovered about the same time, independently in several locations.

Then we jump ahead a long time to 1813, with the introduction of canning. Later still, Clarence Birdseye gave us freezing. Then, in the latter half of the 20th century came freeze-drying.

Very late in the game comes the National Center For Home Food Preservation which tells us, using spurious science, that a 10,000 year old process is unsafe.

Goodness gracious. It's a wonder there are any of us left alive to worry about it.

Salt is used to draw out the moisture and has obviously been used as a preservative for many many centuries, up to 10,000 years. Without some salt in, and on the meat, it will spoil. Ever try to dry cure a meat or fish without salt? Can't be done safely. On the other hand, acids are used to act as preservatives too and you see this in jams and jellies, as well as drying tomatoes..

"Ever try to dry cure a meat or fish without salt? Can't be done safely."

Yes, I have, when I made jerky. I made it thin and it dried fairly fast. At the time, I considered it a good product. Since then, because of things I read, I too became concerned that I might have used an unsafe method.

The question I have for Linda Lou is merely the meaning of the term "bind". I don't know what that means in this context. I do understand the use of salt to draw out moisture, if that's what it means. I use that principle in a number of ways in my cooking.

Gardenlad's reasoning makes quite a lot of sense, if only he weren't so bashful in expressing it. LOL Salt wasn't readily available in many places during early civilization. It was a rare and expensive commodity, so wouldn't have been used very much for curing. But, I will probably use a little salt if I make jerky again. I can afford salt and it tastes good. I'll use it in moderation, walking a fine line between the recommendations of the NCHFP and the American Heart Association. :-)

Jim

It means it makes the water unavailable for microbial growth.
Salting is the simplest form of curing and its objective is meat preservation. It is accomplished by adding salt to meat and drawing moisture out of it what subsequently inhibits the growth of microorganisms. Water inside the meat spells trouble, it spoils everything and eliminating it by salting and drying allows meat to be stored for longer periods of time. A classical example will be an all American favorite beef jerky.

Meat and salt are like two hands of the same body, they always work together and we cannot even imagine processing or eating meat without salt. When added to meat it provides us with the following benefits:

Adds flavor (feels pleasant when applied between 2 Â 3%)

Prevents microbial growth

Increases water retention, and meat and fat binding

Salt does not kill bacteria it simply prevents or slows down their development. To be effective the salt concentration has to be 10% or higher. Salt concentration of 6 % prevents Clostridium botulinum spores from becoming toxins though they may become active when smoking at low temperatures. Adding sodium nitrite (Cure #1) eliminates that danger.

The two physical reactions that take place during salting are diffusion and water binding, and no chemical reactions are present. Salting is the fastest method of curing as it removes rapidly water from inside of the meat. The salt migrates inside of the meat and the water travels to the outside surface of the meat and simply leaks out. This gives us a double benefit:

Less water in meat - less favorable conditions for the development of meat spoiling bacteria (loss of 20 % or more of water)
More salt in meat  less favorable conditions for the development of meat spoiling bacteria (10 % of salt or more.)

Here is a link for some more info.

Here is a link that might be useful: What is water activity ....

I spent several years working in the highlands of south-central Africa, where even in the 1980's, out in the villages salt was a rare, expensive, precious commodity. There was still a significant amount of subsistence hunting (and the Safari-commercial kind). The villagers I worked with knew exactly which species of wood to burn for smoke to make the best biltong for each species of game or fish, and it was kind of fun to listen to the hunters get into big arguments over this. Some of these guys were real culinary artists, and it could be very, very good.

This was also the place with edible, wild mushrooms the size of an umbrella, and we'd make mushroom 'catsup', using the ancient definition of the term as a 'salted extract'.

"...it was kind of fun to listen to the hunters get into big arguments over this."

I can relate to that. LOL

Jim

Thank you for all the debate conserning to salt or not to salt. I was planning to add about 1 tsp of salt per 1 1/2 lbs of beef but objected to the soy sauce flavor and could not find a recipe without soy. Did not mean to 'stir the pot' but the debate was interesting.
Thanks again

"Salt does not kill bacteria it simply prevents or slows down their development"

"and thus any bacteria on the meat are more quickly killed"

Uh, huh!

Jimster, this alone should explain why I get a little testy with some of this nonsense.

As mentioned in a previous post, there are jerky mixes that conain the recommended amount of salt as well as spices to add to meat for jerky. The last time I tried it, the stuff cam out way to fiberous and was really too chewy to enjoy. I thinkly sliced a fairly tender piece of beef (rib eye) and the result was the same. In most commercial jerky, they grind up the meat salt and flavorize, form into strips, then dry it. The result is a more toothsome texture.

Bsamom,
It is a temperature safety issue, as well, when drying foods. You know, the two hour guideline for bacterial growth. The meat will not reach the "safe" zone of 140 degrees quick enough to prevent bacteria from growing. Salt helps prevent getting the bacterial growth before it starts drying. That is why the USDA now says to bring your meat up to 160 degrees before drying jerky.
Bacteria doubles every 20 min. when between 40 and 140 degrees, so in just a couple hours you have tons of bacteria growing.
I can see why bsmamom would not want to be responsible for giving a bunch of boys food poisoning.

This is just part of the link below :

Why is Temperature Important When Making Jerky? Illnesses due to Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7 from homemade jerky raise questions about the safety of traditional drying methods for making beef and venison jerky. The USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline's current recommendation for making jerky safely is to heat meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F before the dehydrating process. This step assures that any bacteria present will be destroyed by wet heat. But most dehydrator instructions do not include this step, and a dehydrator may not reach temperatures high enough to heat meat to 160 °F.

After heating, maintain a constant dehydrator temperature of 130 to 140 °F during the drying process is important because:
the process must be fast enough to dry food before it spoils; and
it must remove enough water that microorganisms are unable to grow.

Why is it a Food Safety Concern to Dry Meat Without First Heating it to 160 °F?
The danger in dehydrating meat and poultry without cooking it to a safe temperature first is that the appliance will not heat the meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F  temperatures at which bacteria are destroyed  before it dries. After drying, bacteria become much more heat resistant.

Within a dehydrator or low-temperature oven, evaporating moisture absorbs most of the heat. Thus, the meat itself does not begin to rise in temperature until most of the moisture has evaporated. Therefore, when the dried meat temperature finally begins to rise, the bacteria have become more heat resistant and are more likely to survive. If these surviving bacteria are pathogenic, they can cause foodborne illness to those consuming the jerky.

Here is a link that might be useful: Food safety on Jerky.

In other words, the USDA says, "don't make jerky", because jerky is not made from cooked meat. Not by my definition anyway. Those temperatures represent meat cooked to a well done condition.

I really try to practice safe food preparation, but the USDA is losing credibility with me.

Jim

Welcome to the real world, Jim.

And should you decide to follow those guidelines keep in mind that the so-called jerky will never rehydrate, because it's been thoroughly cooked.

"...the so-called jerky will never rehydrate..."

And will be impossible to chew. One bite will last all day.

Jim

Which reminds me, by far and away the highest incidence these days with botulism food poisoning is folks canning salmon, and the new guidelines for canning smoked fish are something like 110 minutes at 20 lbs pressure or something. In other words, don't bother.

>And will be impossible to chew. One bite will last all day. You mean you're supposed to eat it? I reckon the gubmint, in it's infinite wisdom, forgot about that part.

BTW, the very defination of jerky is raw meat that has been dried. So, if you cook it first, even if it were edible, it is not jerky.

David: Ball Blue Book says to do fish 100 minutes at 10 lbs pressure. Been that way for two days longer than forever, and wasn't changed in the latest edition.

Most home pressure canners only go to 15 pounds anyway. So I guess the gubmint don't want us canning fish, either.

Canning smoked fish is 110 min. at ll. lb dial gauge canner, 10 lb. pressure for weighted gauge. If it is not smoked, but plain fish, then it is 100 min.

The concern with the dried meat is the meat itself to begin with. Just last week we had another recall here locally on hamburger contaminated with ecoli. We don't even know from one minute to the next if the spinach or lettuce or whatever is going to make us sick or kill us. How can you tell if the meat you have is contaminated by looking at it ? Just depends upon how safe you feel with the food supply you have as to what risk you want to take I guess.

Anybody remember The boy in the Bubble?

USDA will tell you not to eat a raw carrot straight outta the dirt from your own garden either.
I did. Lived to tell about. Imagine that!

I think we each have to find our comfort level. USDA are GUIDELINES, not "stop the world from turning" laws. (I'd be in jail if they were).

(Big, Fat, Grin)

Deanna

My personal POV, when it comes to home-canning fish and meat, I wonder at the balance between, on the one hand, the energy expended and the deterioration in the nutritional quality of the product being pressure cooked for 110 minutes, or just freezing the stuff. I should think there must be some deterioration in the quality of the essential amino acids within the protein. I did a stint, many years ago, formulating and preparing animal feeds. The cooking time is kept to a minimum for this reason.

So, I just freeze it. I once caught several hundred lbs of tuna, and as I like the taste of canned tuna and there is just so much sashimi a guy can eat in a few days, I proceeded to water-bath it for 20 minutes or so to get that flavor, and then froze the jars.

I got kinda sick of canned tuna as well

160º? I would consider my steak way overcooked @ that
temp.

ButchT

Only someone from MA would use a word like "elucidate" LOLOLOL! Jim, I say that with much affection and fondness and a twinge of homesickness. :)

I have enjoyed reading this debate, it was very informative and highly educational. I made jerky once and it came out great. I made my own marinade that had soy sauce in it but I believed I used low sodium at the time and I am still alive to talk about it. I cooked it for about 4 hours at 200 degrees.

This thread has made me crave making more.

Thanks,
Susan

"...LOLOLOL! Jim, I say that with much affection and fondness..."

You can laugh at my vocabulary all you want, so long as you do it with LOTS of affection and fondness.

I'm glad you're having fun in this forum.

Jim

all the usda reccommendations for meat are based on the assumption that your using filthy industrially produced meat that's fairly likey to be contaminated. They can't afford to actually do a good job of inspecting farms and slaughterhouses so they just tell you to cook it to death. Buy your meat from a farmer that you know has a clean farm and uses a good slaughterhouse. You'll get the added benefit of much tastier meat.

If you carefully read the USDA fact sheet linked above (Food Safety on Jerky), you will notice that, in some of the tests, the meat was inoculated with E. coli prior to making jerky. That possibly is good science (I'm not so sure) but is quite ironic, especially when all recommended procedures call for cleanliness -- careful hand washing before touching meat and that sort of thing.

Jim

Not everyone has a local farmer nearby that has his own slaughter house, or for that matter, beef.. Here, there are few farms, and any that are left, only grow fruits and vegetables, very few have any beef, and the rest are either raising turkeys or chickens. In VT, its dairy cows only. I suppose if we had the large areas like that in the mid west or south, things would be different.