8 hours is considered FULL sun ... whether or not there is shade some part of the day .... learned that in my rose growing days .... the issue then becomes... the intensity of the sun ... dawn and dusk full sun is not equivalent to noon sun ... so 4 hours at dawn.. and 4 hours at dusk.. might be a problem for SOME plants ... which require intense levels of light ... i realize you may know most of this... but i use it to refresh my memory .. and to entertain any newbies who are lurking.. and i know you are out there ... we could then add FILTERED light to complicate the whole mess ... lol ... but technically.. that brings us back to intensity ... in the olden days .... 5 years ago .. lol .. you actually had pix peeps who carried photo meters to measure the light intensity ... except for the true photo expert.. that is probably a thing of the past with digital this and that .... with said tool ... you could probably actually define the light level in your SHADE .... and then try to find research indicating how many units of what level of light.. is satisfactory for your plants.. the greenhouse peeps probably have some of this science worked out ... this would be why there are shade clothes that vary from 25 to 60% shade ... depending what you are growing in the man made shade ... ken PS: all of which leaves will standing there scratching his head.. really no further ahead than he was prior to posting... thinking.. aw heck.. i am just going to plant the thing here.. and worry about it in a few years ... lol

Yes, lakeeffect, a picture would be great. Another thing to think about is cost, which may or may not be an issue. Not sure how bit your area is, but a large U-shaped windblock created by $300 cultivars will add up. While you can buy 1-gallon cultivars for a lot less, my guess is that tiny plants probably won't provide enough windblock quickly enough if you're eyeing a 20' size eventually. Because wind will have a natural dwarfing effect anyway, you could always grow species plants and chop them down once an inner layer of shrubs has grown large enough, or the trees too tall. Or, if that sounds barbaric, you could try something mounding like Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Filifera Aurea'. Some of the Picea pungens cultivars grow bushier and slower than the species, too, and spruce is a great choice for windy sites. Also, consider Picea glauca 'Pendula' or Pinus koreansis 'Silveray'. https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~jhayden/landscape_plants/late_fall_woody_plants/chamaecyparis_pisifera_%27filifera_aurea%27_TOWER-HILL_01s.JPG http://www.greergardens.com/images/Conifers/Picea%20pungens%20Fat%20Albert%20,%20Wylie%2006-94.jpg http://www.greergardens.com/images/Conifers/Picea%20glauca%20pendula%20Oregon%20Garden%201.JPG http://www.esveld.nl/htmldiaen/p/piksil.htm In general, if you're intent on dwarfs specifically, the balance may be to finesse time to appropriate size & cost, but conifers tend to make great windbreaks. Best of luck and hope this helps, -James

link to Juniperus chinensis 'Monarch' .. no pix .. google images for the green version here: http://images.google.com/images?q=Juniperus%20chinensis%20'Monarch'&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi god i hate the lack of word wrap .... probably a bastardized improper name for a yellow version .... could possibly have a proper name that wasnt on the arb label .... contact the garden you saw it in .. and see if they can give you any extra info ... ken Here is a link that might be useful: monarch

hey .. dont be confused by what you might think the US is like .. it is NOTHING like what you see on TV ... i live in Michigan ... and i would bet 60% of it is covered in forest ... logged to a great extent at the turn of the 19th century .... much of it in production ... i just dont know my stuff good enough to go trekking.. nor well enough to know what i might find if i did find something ... nice pix ken