Oh, how sad, Jackie! I can't think that anything you did would have caused it unless you injured the roots severely when you dug out that jade tree. I've grown clems with my roses for years with no problems and I know a lot of other people do too. The only thing I can think of would maybe gall of some kind. When you dig it out look for it on the roots. If it is root gall you might want to move that poly somewhere else for a while so it doesn't get it as well. Or you can replace all the soil in that area with fresh soil. I've used a bleach solution on a galled rose before but it wasn't in the roots but on the canes. I don't know if it would sterilize the soil. Maybe some one else will know for sure.

Weird, weird. No one dumped anything there (contaminated water)? Jade plants have pitiful root systems--did any rose roots get disturbed when you dug out the jade? Could rot from the Jade have infected the rose roots?

Did you get heavy rain last winter? Perhaps a pathogen in the soil got enough moisture to go after the root system.

Very worthwhile to investigate the rose roots for pathogens, rot. Sniff the soil after removal--sour smell?

Really odd. Sorry for your loss. Must have been a beauty!

Or did the pathogen that killed the Jade plant move into the rose by root to root graft?

It would probably take molecular scientists who are working on the Jade plants (if there are any) to try to see if it's disease is graft transmissable.

But the timing of the two deaths may be a clue,nonetheless.

I have seen roses die in a way not-unlike that from downy mildew -- when it got right down into the roots. Not sayin' that was what it was, but -- MAYBE.

The only other thing like that I've seen was our Reine des Violettes. A virused plant from ROY&T, it was planted in 1987, and grew happily (not even showing signs of the virus we knew must logically be there) until the spring of 2007.

Then, it suddenly broke out in signs of virus from top to bottom, gave us one last flush of bloom, and died.

Jeri

Rose plants do have a certain life span. But I would dig it up and examine the roots. I'm betting you'll find root gall. It's fairly common in older gardens over time.

I don't know if it's the same with roses but that'show my maple died of verticilium wilt.
It was an established 8 year old tree and it suddenly had a branch that look dried up and dead. I thought it mustve been broken off, but it was fully attached.
The next spring and early summer another branch died then the whole crown. I pulled it out and sawed the trunk to verify olive color staining in the wood.
Although it generally isnt fatal- certain kinds ofushrooms will girdle a trees roots.
Or Possible a borer girdled it too?
Just guesses...

Thanks everyone for all of the good info! We just dug up the stump, and I am sorry to say that "We have met the enemy, and he is US!". There was not any sign of galls on the roots or anywhere else. However, some of the main roots were completely rotted, and there were fungus fruits 1-2 inches under the soil all over - they looked like small squashed grey mushrooms - yuck! When we took out the jade plant, we put in irrigation, which was part of our automatic irrigation system. I am guessing that that bed was WAY too wet, and basically that rose just rotted. When my DH cut up the 3 inch in diameter main canes down near the bud union, they both were dark brown in the center.

So, we dug up the soil, and replaced it with new soil, and I went to look for some sort of fungicide drench to pour over the new soil and the rest of the bed. Then I plan to leave it until next Spring.

I went to my nursery (it is the one described at the Sac Cemetery rose symposium as "the oldest continuously operating nursery in California" - the West End Nursery in San Rafael). The owner is very knowledgeable about many things, although they do not specialize in roses. He recommended "AGRI-FOS, which is a systemic fungicide that can be used as a spray or a drench, and kills many different fungus diseases. You can also use it to soak new plant roots in before planting. He said that anything else that might work is illegal in CA, as they have made most of the chemicals illegal. He laughed and said that they cannot make this one illegal, as it is the only thing that works to prevent sudden oak death!

So, we got some and drenched the area. I disconnected the irrigation, which is turned off now anyway. We will see what happens to the little polyantha rose - if it is still OK next Spring I am planning on planting a Reve d"or to replace the GS.

Jackie

I'm not surprised Jackie.

Without knowing exactly what fungus was involved, I sort of THOUGHT that some sort or rot or fungus had gotten through the root system.

Your solution makes sense to me.

Jeri

I've seen this happen. I lost a huge Treasure Trove and at Vintage they lost an old climbing Madame Cochet. Gregg says it's bacteria or fungus. An alternative to the drench would be Phyton 27. It's a sestemic copper. I buy it from Purity Products in Sebastopol. I'm not sure if you can get it on line.

A good thread to keep us all on our toes. When I first moved in here, I planted an Alister Stella Grey beside a grand old stump. He did fine the first two years and then just quit. When I pulled him out, the whole area collapsed and I discovered why the cats liked hanging out by the stump. It was riddled with chipmunks holes. They'd eaten all Alister's roots.

In another area, I had carved out a little grove to be surrou nded by largerer shrubs and filled with the most fragrant roses and a pretty little bench, all getting afternoon shade from a lovely maple. But none of the roses thrived. Turns out, maple roots are shallow and strangling. Now I pay pay attention to what's happening underground.
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The fungicide will kill off good microbes as well as the baddies, so remember to mulch with compost next spring to help re-establish the microherd in the soil.

hoovb - Thanks! We do have a compost pile (actually, it is a huge old concrete incinerator over 100 years old next to the garage that my husband decided to re-purpose because he decided that "there is no way I am breaking that thing up:), and he just dug all of the compost out of it to make room for the new shredded oak leaves. I filled up the hole where the rose was with new soil, but then of course it rained for 3 days, and the soil shrank down a bit - now there is a bowl shaped depression. I will fill it up with compost - it came out very nice this year - dark and fine. I will put more on in the Spring.

Jackie

Could have been any of a number of root-rotting fungi, which are everywhere, but don't become pathogenic unless soil moisture conditions are very high usually.

Verticillium is one exception, that one likes alternating wet/dry soil conditions. Main symptom of verticillium is one branch dying completely, then another. Maples are very susceptible, don't recall losing any roses to it though.

My guess from your description would be armillaria root rot, what you all in California call oak root fungus. Adding irrigation to plants that didn't have it before is one sure way to kill them with armillaria! but it doesn't have gray mushrooms. Honey-colored mushrooms around the base of the plant, but it does have blackish lumps and strings underground. What you saw was probably something else, there's a lot of things living down there underground. Taking advantage of the dead roots.

Best defense against armillaria and any other root rot is to manage irrigation and add compost. That way you don't get the soil moisture conditions that are conducive to infection, and you have a thriving microbial community to keep any one species from growing out of control.

Nothing you can spray on the plant tops will work on root rots. Soil drenches are iffy too, frankly, it's hard to get just the right amount spread through the soil, and it kills off the beneficial soil microbes, and the pathogens come back.

The jade plant could have died from armillaria as well. Lots of plants are susceptible to in (including oaks, hence the common name!) and like most root rotting pathogens, it's everywhere at small populations, just waiting for the right soil moisture conditions and the right host plant. And it will spread from plant to unrelated plant underground, growing from one infected root system to the next uninfected root system. That's the black strings you might see.

Do you have any big trees in the area, even as far as 10-20ft away? All my roses started dying last summer. When I went to dig them up, I found they were totally being strangled by Monterey Cypress roots which are extremely invasive. After we cut all those trees down and I removed the roots and added new soil they flourished. They weren't getting enough water and fertilizer because of the invasive roots.
Clare

If a rose dies almost over night it has to be roots. Years ago I had a serious vole problem that caused me to lose at least 50 roses. Voles were eating the roots and the roses would topple over like trees. If you have voles it is easy to know if they are there. You may even find a nest. Getting rid of them is another matter. Slower decline of a previously healthy rose often indicates gall especially if you mulch heavily and have moist rich soil near the surface. Dig down and and if you find one cut it all off with a pairing knife and the rose will spring back. I always had very good drainage so I never had root rot but that could be the problem. Invasive roots could also be the problem and again you should be able to determine if this is the problem.