Zelkova for Backyard shade & climbing?

10 years ago

Hi:

Zone 6b, southwestern KY near border with TN. Hot summers (some mid. 90's to 100 or slightly over), humid, but fairly cold winters (often lows in the 20's, some in the teens).

Considering medium to large long-lived shade tree in backyard. The area gets strong winds part of the year, so don't want a weak-wooded tree. Fast growing would be nice, though; we've got an infant daughter, and maybe if she could climb on it some (or get shade from it) in a decade or so, that'd be nice. The shade part may be more practical, but a tree with long-term climbing potential for a future generation would be nice. Would be planted beside a large wooden swing/play set.

I know of an American Elm, and can see where a 'vase-shaped' form where the trunk splits into large branches/sub-trunks not too high up could make a climbing tree. But Dutch Elm Disease rules that out.

I see a couple of potential problems with Zelkova.

1.) Dutch Elm Disease resistant, but not wholly immune. So, what am I to make of that?

2.) Foliage eaten by Japanese beetles. That could be very bad. Around here, some plants they damage but not real badly (e.g.: crape myrtle, roses, plum trees, blackberry vines) & some they will annihilate (e.g.: purpleleaf sandcherry). While a plant is young Bayer Advanced can solve the problem, but not so much when the tree is large.

Our total lot is 1.4 acres, & other trees at varied places include 2 ginkgos, 1 swamp white oak, 1 nutall oak, 2 pecan trees, 1 wildfire blackgum, 1 tulip poplar, 1 (green?) ash (I did not plant it!), some maples (red or sugar out front; some root girdling, here when we moved in), 1 Golden Hinoki False Cypress and some smaller plants but I've listed the big ones.

So we've got some oak, maple & ginkgo. Is Zelkova a good choice, or should I be looking at something else?

Richard.

P.S.: Was considering a Golden Raintree, but the Zelkova would get more the size I'd prefer, and I can put the GRT elsewhere.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (6)

lcadem
10 years ago
I love zelkovas. Try to have a look at zelkova carpinifolia. A true gem of a tree! You can find it at forest farm. It is a fairly common tree in parks in britain and europe
viburnumvalley
10 years ago
I'd reject the Japanese Zelkova out of hand, as the branching structure is wholly incompatible with what I'd consider a climbing tree. Don't get me wrong - it is a fine species to use for many situations, just not the function you describe as your goal. Most plants you will find to buy will have a cluster of stems emerging from a single point, almost like a brush head. That's not climbing material.

I'd think you'd want a plant with a branching structure more like an oak, maple, or even sycamore. In fact, those would make up into a good climbing and shade-producing tree faster than a Zelkova serrata anyway.

In my never-to-be-humble opinion, GRT is a weed. My parents had one in their yard for 40 years. Us ten kids never climbed it - ever - and it is thankfully now DEAD. Its zillions of progeny live on, however, much to my mom's chagrin as she continually fights the weeding battle to eliminate them from her garden.
Related Discussions
backyard landscape design?
Q
Comments (21)
I really like that suggestion Bboy, and that book sounds like it would be a lot of help in many ways. :) I've been playing with window's paint this morning, we really have a lot to do. This yard was completely leveled last year (all of the dirt pushed to the back of the yard as you see, and all previous landscaping removed. But I do love this stuff, and I wouldn't be happy at all if I had a yard that didn't need work! I already have some clear ideas on the front and sides (the side porch area is my husbands plan, I have no say there) but if anyone see's any glaring mistakes or can offer ideas better than my drawings, I would appreciate the input! I guess I'm putting these up to show the full scope of the yard and how each section relates to another, and specifically, to the back. There are several levels to work with. Lots of concrete, sidewalks, steps, retaining walls in the front (made of stone) many sharp angles. Don't ask me why there is a sidewalk leading from our side porch to the neighbors driveway, but it can't be removed. Not only do we share property with them, but we maintain their yard and it helps to get the mowers across. The yard as it is now: As I would like it to be eventually: The second drawing... The brown areas are intended to be planting areas. Still not sure precisely which plants or where, other than I want cascading things in the front of the front beds, to come down and break up the facade of the wall which is six feet high. I'm thinking of rambling or ground cover roses, but not sure my neighbors would appreciate the thorns (or keep would their hands off the blooms). I do intend on climbing roses on the side bed though, to climb the porch railings. The side yard (where the kiddie pool is) is utilitarian - where we put our brush for composting, the hose spigot, veggetable garden, etc. No grass will grow in the middle of this area because there are pipes from the sump pumps in the basement running just under the surface. I intend to mulch it as it's suited for nothing but growing dirt. Thank you very much for looking, and for all of the advice so far! It is a great help and I think things are coming together very nicely in my mind and on paper.
...See More
Starting a garden in a densely shady backyard
Q
Comments (28)
You've got a lot of good advice to start you off. I'll add my 2 cents worth :-) My backyard is almost entirely shade except a bit in the center, which is now the only space where there is lawn. (See the link below to a thread on the Woodlands Gardening forum for pictures, plan and description of my shade garden...) The biggest problem with the shade garden here is mosquitoes! I do the vast majority of my gardening work in the spring before they come out of hibernation and again in the fall when they've gone back into hibernation. In mid summer, I relax and enjoy the garden largely from the shelter of the back porch! When I do my regular tree seedling patrols, I wear a bug shirt :-) By 'long needle pines' do you mean white pines? I have two and there are others on the neighbouring properies that affect us too. They are my favorite evergreens! The annual needlecast provides lots of lovely mulch - it all gets raked into the garden beds where it is left to rot down naturally to the benifit of the plants there. Directly under the skirt of the pines, Sweet Woodruff is the main planting. Closer to the edge of the canopy, other shade plants tolerant of fairly dry conditions e.g. perenial geraniums, brunnera, some ferns will do well. Hostas and Solomon's Seal make a nice combination in there as well. The list of shade plants you'll want in the garden is almost endless :-) Shade gardening is very rewarding - lots of beautiful plants and interesting combinations. Work out at least a rough idea of what you want to do and then get started. Mowing those weeds so you have a better feel for the space and conditions is a good thing to do while you're in the early stages of thinking about it as a garden rather than a weedy wasteland! Good luck. Here is a link that might be useful: shade garden
...See More
need ideas for a 40'X30' backyard
Q
Comments (3)
Where are you in CO? I can hardly wait for spring in my Springs neigborhood as the place comes to life with so many flowering trees. It too is an older area. Am working on my backyard also, about twice your size but in the same situation. It is a tradgedy from lack of care by previous owners, but did come back to life a bit last summer...with a bunch of continuous attention. At one time it must have been a beautiful yard as there were remants of a rock garden and many roses still attempting to live. I have huge trees at the far back and both sides of the yard are flanked with old lilacs which completely hide the fencing. The rest of the yard is open with old lawn and nothing else. Was able to plant a couple of small trees for future shade closer to the house, but with this winter cold they may not have made it. After considering some ideas (and I can't afford a landscaper), I've decided that hardscape is the answer to beginning again in this yard. The area most needed is coming out of the back door onto a 12 X 20 concrete patio. It feels barren, am building a 4' fence around it, about 2' beyond the pad so I can add plants/bushes/vines between the patio and fence. Would love a pergola over the patio but costs seem to have gone through the roof, so the fence came to mind to soften the patio and I'll just keep using umbrellas. Another addition is a potting shed with porch. A new roof went on last summer, saved all the wood shingles to use on the shed. I also have 2 big dogs and they love their yard. It is difficult to plan a garden with tender plantings which is why I've decided hardscape first, then start adding the plantings nearby where they can be safe from paw paths. So....I didn't add anything to help you. But my first thought would be trees, get a start on them, at least 3 in various locations and near the patio for shade. Is the patio flagstone? It could be taken out and reused in the same location on a new base. Some large bushes by the alley fence and garage. Hardscape wise, I love sheds...they can be tiny and still give some cottage feeling. I actually saw a victorian shed built in a front yard, it was charming. Hopefully some others will respond who have more knowledge of cottage gardens....at this point with mine it feels like it will take forever to get where theirs are.
...See More
Turning backyard into a garden, what do you think?
Q
Comments (53)
CC Thanks! gumby - yes, the 5ft decision wasn't easy. I practiced digging/planting/pruning in the middle of the first bed to make sure I'm ok with it before I built the rest. It helps me a lot that I have a place to sit/step on and reach in. Trellis support (aka el conduit) is still in pieces. I planted rattlesnake and garden of eden pole beans and they will be the first to need it, but not in the next several weeks, I don't think. I should have some their trellis ready by then. defrost - yes I can use a board if I need to, and except for tomatoes, I will keep all my tall plants on the north (top) side of the beds to keep them from shading the rest of the bed. If it turns out it is a big problem, I'll just rearrange them. It will likely be a weekend project to do it. Everything except the blackberries (not here yet), strawberries (last fall), blueberries(last fall), garlic (last fall), pawpaws(not here) and figs(not here) was planted during the week. I can't wait to see things grow in these new beds! Next I'm starting to prepare my tomatoes and peppers. In a couple of weeks I'll plant some more lettuce in the bottom left bed and maybe some more spring crops. It might get too hot for them, but we'll see. The rest of the open area will be mostly tomatoes and peppers, okra and some eggplant.
...See More
Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
10 years ago
liriodendron tulipifera (tulip tree) do well over there?

It grows reasonably quickly and individuals in parks here have plenty of LARGE low branches.

Metasequoia is fast as can be given adequate moisture. Long lived too and fairly wind resistant. Not exactly a climbing shaped tree but that is 20 years off anyway.

Weeping willows are about the only thing I can think of that you can climb in a decade or so. You might have a large enough lot where one can be used! Weak wooded but don't worry, it will grow a new one lol. My neighbor has one my 3 year old loves for what it is worth.
drrich2
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks for the input, guys. Good food for thought.

A tulip poplar maybe 30 feet tall is near one end of the property. Pretty. There was another in the back yard, but for some reason it 'died,' though a sucker put out. I wasn't enthused at the prospect of such a potentially huge tree based on a sucker out of the side of a stump, so I replaced it with the nutall oak. This tree would be fairly near the house (maybe 30 feet away from the garage?).

I'm not sure how strong-wooded tulip poplars are. They don't seem to have the bad rep. silver maples do.

Richard.
hamburglar1
10 years ago
If you are looking for something that will be good for climbing in 10 years, you might try a large redbud or crab apple variety. They tend to have abundant, horizontal branches that are strong enough. We have a 25x35' wild apple in our yard that the kids are always in. Also see kids climbing up the interior of large conifers in our neighbor's yard. Having low branches is a key to getting the kids thinking about climbing. We have a lot of natural ash, maple, and elm of various sizes in our neighborhood and it is rare to see kids climbing in any of them.
lucky_p
10 years ago
rich,
I'm in your area- hoptown.

If you're not anal-retentive about kids eating 'wild' berries or purple stains, it'd be hard to beat a GOOD mulberry, like 'Illinois Everbearing'. Rapid growth, good branch structure for climbing - with minimal pruning to foster such - and pretty nice shade. But - they will produce large amounts of TASTY, staining fruits. Don't be surprised if the daughter comes in with hands & lips stained purple during fruiting season.
My wife had pleasant childhood memories of climbing up into the big mulberry in her yard, eating berries along with the birds, so mulberries were some of the first trees we planted when we moved here - and our kids did enjoy the berries, though none were all that keen on climbing - other than to shake out more berries to eat.
I'm an oak enthusiast at heart, but for the traits you listed, mulberry - either M.rubra or a hybrid like IE - not M.alba! - would be hard to beat.

Zelkova for Backyard shade & climbing?

Comments (6)

lcadem

viburnumvalley

Related Discussions

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis

drrich2
Original Author

hamburglar1

lucky_p

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Zelkova for Backyard shade & climbing?

Comments (6)

lcadem

viburnumvalley

Related Discussions

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis

drrich2Original Author

hamburglar1

lucky_p

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

drrich2
Original Author