Agree that if you can use your native soil as a component then you should do so. Regardless of how poor you think it is, unless it's pure sand or solid rock or has an insanely skewed ph it will be a good addition to your beds.

Mel's mix of peat, vermiculite, and compost in equal amounts might be okay to do with only a couple raised beds but it is just way too expensive and unnecessary with a larger garden.

I think your biggest issue will be the amount of sun your garden gets.

Rodney

Why people so frequently completely abandon native garden soil to buy expensive stuff?..... Is there a major issue with the soil?

Very interesting, I'm really surprised to see that MM has such bad reputation here.

daninthedirt - Why is it a bad idea to plant in pure compost in the long run? Wouldn't growing cover crops between production crops keep the soil loose? I don't know about vermiculite, but the 1/3 of peat moss will surely take a while to disappear?

theforgottenstone1013 - I guess I can use my soil, but I will still need something extra to fill the beds with - and I do want to be in raised beds, not in the ground. Good point about the sun. That's really my concern as well. This year I did grow tomatoes and cucumbers just fine right around the right side of the top long raised bed. If tomatoes grow - which love sun - I'm sure I'll be able to get something else growing as well. Maybe not at its best but unfortunately I don't have a choice - can't force the sun to shine more on my lawn :)

Peter - For me, the main reasons are, that I will start with weed free medium (or as close as possible), I do not have to spend a year to find out how good my soil is, and, as I mentioned, I'd like to give my plants the best growing medium I can. Who knows who's been spraying roundup or some other crap on their lawn right next to me and has saturated the ground with poisons... As far as I know, there are no issues with the soil - plenty of trees around me seem to be doing just fine.

So I guess I still need to figure out what to fill the beds with. I suppose I can just get garden soil and compost from the local nurseries and go with that.

There are those who swear that planing in pure compost is a good idea. I have to assume they did it once, and it worked. But compost will decompose more and turn into muck. I have a bed I put too much compost into, and after a few years I ended up with rock-like clods when the soil dried out a bit. I laboriously chopped up the clods, added sand, and now my bed is great. Compost when fluffy also offers little support for stems, so plants can tip over more easily. Also, the mineral nutrient content of compost is pretty hit or miss. Better get it tested. Drainage of compacted compost is usually fairly poor. Yes, it may hold water well, but sometimes too well. Mineral particles like sand offer permeability that pure organic material can't.

I mixed about 2-3 parts native soil and 1 part compost or soil conditioner (my specific soil needs) into my raised beds. I have really high beds, about 26" high, and that mix does well for me even with our hot summers. I mix in some new compost before seasonal replanting, which has really improved the soil in the boxes. My native soil is crap (pure sand or pure clay depending on which part of my yard it comes from), so if you have even mediocre soil it should be fine to use in that way. You're going to get weeds in your bed regardless of what you start with, so I wouldn't worry about that aspect much.

While sun exposure is important, I've been surprised by a lot of things that I had extras of and just shoved them into less-than-optimal spots. Right now I have a tomato that I stuck in an empty spot under a live oak growing up into the branches. It gets maybe 3 hours of sun a day, early morning and late evening when the oak isn't shading it. No idea how I'm going to pick tomatoes up there, but it's growing and fruiting and is about 10' tall at this point lol Of course I'm not saying it wouldn't do better in optimal conditions, but we all work with what we have.

Ok, thanks everyone. I'll see what's available from local nurseries and what they recommend for local vegetable growing.

My next problem now is that the backyard is on a slope. Will it be OK if one side of the beds is slightly underground? It will be much simpler for me to dig a bit to level the bed than to raise the lower end, and since I'm using concrete blocks, I can't really taper trim them like wood :)

Just wondering if you thought making a... greenhouse in the backyard ?

I did but decided against. The problem is that in my area (westchester county), if I build a structure bigger than 64sqft, I have to ask for permission from the town, from the building council ... pita. Might build covers for the beds though.

If you are digging out the slope to level the garden that will give you soil to help fill your beds.

I wonder if making your garden beds on flat ground and avoiding the expenses and time involved of building raised beds. If your existing soil is good, why not just use it. I do have 2 raised beds that were built because they are in low area and because I use a low tunnel for cold and shade protection. Unless time and money is not a problem, I would just use your existing plan on flat ground.

to convert the grass to beds, just put down a tarp to kill off grass plus add amendments to your existing soil. you are going to have to kill off grass for raised beds anyway. I wouldn't worry about having weed free soil. you will have weeds in it soon anyway. If you have good grass growing in this yard, you have soil good enough to grow veggies. I once read an article on how to grow a $20 tomato. there plan looked similar to yours. Not being sarcastic, just being realistic.

Setting the block a little below grade will give the bed some extra strength. The MM does not breakdown to mush, most squarefoot gardeners just add compost to the original mix each year, no additional vermiculite. It is a pricey project for all your beds. Definitely try it in one of two of your beds to see if it works better for you. Some folks are blessed with naturally good gardening soil, others like me have to build it up. Can you cut some of the tree branches to get more sun light?

Looks like a great project.

Craig

I also think sun will be your biggest problem - don't forget the trees grow each year. IF they are your trees you can top em or take em down.

Soil test - you haven't mentioned anything about a soil test. After sun & location the soil test should be the very next thing to get done. A good reliable test from your agriculture dept. or local university.

When I turned my back yard into garden space I had a soil test done on 22 beds. Lucky for me in CT there is no charge if you have the test done at CAES (CT Agriculture Experiment Station).

You give no dimensions but it looks like the walkways are narrower than the beds. If so, that is a mistake. Should also plan you use some kind of weed barrier in the walkways. I prefer newspaper or cardboard cover with wood chips. Mulch hay on top of the newspaper or cardboard also works.

Consider making room in the garden for a compost pile or bin (or two). I moved mine to the garden this year and what a difference in the plants plus I don't have to walk so far. Even if you compost in a diff bed each year.

I agree that vermiculite is only for moisture retention and add no nutrient value but neither does peat moss. A good soil test will let you know IF you need either of these. You may want to experiment with diff beds while trying diff mixtures - And whether you place Mels Mix on top of compost or under it.

Mels Mix done right should suppress weeds but the wrong compost could be full of weed seeds. Which is why it is sooo important to shop for your compost and even get it tested BEFORE (and after) you buy. Search here and the soil forum for threads about folks who didn't get what they thought they were getting when buying compost. Remember compost is not a regulated business.

No idea how steep your slope is but I remember seeing some hints on how to build beds into a slope on this wonderful internet. The idea was to dig here and place the soil to level the bed.

I don't like beds made of cinder blocks but you may be better off with blocks under the soil the way you mentioned. I would consider wood for the rest of the bed even if only to make trellis supports for vining and other crops. I took Mel's idea but instead of pipe I used wood for mine. If you have to dig much I would also sift the soil before I put it in the bed.

I am sure more than one person here has let a plant that germinated in the compost pile grow and were pleased with the results. I don't see anything wrong with adding only compost to the beds.

Finally, I would suggest a notebook just for your garden notes. Whether it is to-do lists, garden plans, plants or seeds to buy, etc. a Garden Book can be extremely helpful esp. when spring comes and all your thoughts are lost. Winter is for Garden Planning

HTH

Good point about being careful about procuring compost, if that's going to be a main garden constituent from one source. I've run across do-it-yourself compost for sale that was, well, not really all composted. Of course, there are lots of problems these days with persistent herbicides (e.g. aminopyralids) from clueless composters. That will set you back a few years. There is a certification program for compost, and, while it may add slightly to the cost, will be well worth it in terms of assurance.

Let me be clear. I think compost is great stuff. It is my primary soil amendment. But it is possible to overapply it. When your bed becomes mainly compost, it's another kind of gardening entirely.

Alright, so I've revised my layout a bit to accomodate the slope, To give you an idea, it is about 2-3 ft lower where the berry row is, vs the bottom(southern). It is mostly level east to west (unlike what it looks like on the 3d plan below).

Let me see if I can respond to everyone:

floral_uk - yes, I will have some dug up soil and will likely use it on the bottom of the raised beds.

jnjfarm_gw - It sure it would be cheaper, but I'm also pretty sure it would be more work to double dig my entire backyard by hand. I just tried diggin a bit and the soil is like a rock. It looks like it might be decent soil - not much sand or clay - but it is compacted like crazy. I already started killing the grass anywyaw, so that doesn't worry me much.

I agree with you regarding the $20 tomato. However I'm not doing this just to feed my family, thankfully. I just enjoy it. But even without that, and even if I go with the super expensive Mels Mix and build the beds out of top quality cedar I'm looking at $3000 expense. I'm sure the cedar will last at least 10 years and I will not need more than $100 in compost a year, so with $4000 over 10 years I'm looking at $400/yr. If I can get 10-15 sallads out of that for my family, I'll be happy. I spend at least 3 times as much on crappy, tasteless veggies every year and sometimes the $20 tomato is worth it :). If I optimise the beds just a little bit - for example concrete blocks are about $450 while cedar is about $1400 for the project - I can easilly keep the cost to under $2000 over 10 years. When you look at it that way, $200/yr doesn't sound so bad to have a nice size garden which I'm sure will grow something :).

tcgardener - The main tree shading my yard is not mine, however I will speak with the neighbors about it and even offer to split the cost of removing it if they want to. 1/4th of its crown is above my plot so I could trim it a lot on one side, but that would look stupid. It is also one of these trees with leaves only on the outside of the crown, so if I trim it on my side, I'll probably convert the full shade to partial shade.

I'm hoping the project it turns out nice. We had about 30 tomatoes this year from 3 plants (grown in Mel's Mix) and boston cucumbers seem to be growing well too (also in MM) unlike the ones I just put in the ground and watered - they died in a two weeks. Yes I know I didn't really give them a chance by not loosening the soil at least a bit and adding some organic material to it, but still...

gumby_ct - This particular tree will not grow higher, but it is not in my yard either. I will try to bribe the neighbors with veggies to get them to remove it :).

I have not done any soil tests on the native soil. Should probably do it.

Regarding walking dimensions, I've left 2ft between all beds. Yes, they are narrower than the beds because I don't have much space to work with, so I'm trying to do my best with what I have. I'm planning to use wood chips on the walkways.

If you look at the photos above, the area in front of the shed will be dedicated to composting. As I mentioned, I'll have tons of leaves, so that will be my main source. I will shred them and hot compost them with spent coffee. For kitchen scraps I'll have a worm bin (inside in the winter).

Regarding compost source, I'll probably go with CompostWerks. They provide actual soil test and from what I can tell it is a pretty good product:

http://www.compostwerks.com/images/C_W_Bulk_Compost.pdf

http://www.compostwerks.com/images/Bulk_Compost_Spring_2014.PDF

My beds will be made of concrete blocks, not cinder, but yeah, it is not the most attractive solution, but it is the cheapest and most flexible. I will try to balance it with wood chip paths and as you mentioned wooden trellis/latticees for vertical crops.

Thanks for the suggestion on the notebook. I do have one (in digital format) and do plan to record everything. I've had a reef fish tank for years and know the benefits of logging :)

daninthedirt - Yep, absolutely agree on the shady composting practices of a lot places. My local town has free compost, but once I saw all the plastic sticking out of it I just walked away. The one I'm planning to use is screened to 1/2" and has been tested (supposedly) and came with the above linked results.

Thanks everyone! Regarding the leveling problem, It turned out my yard will need way too much work to completely level (including concrete retaining walls and such) so I will be leveling the beds only. That's why I've removed the north/south beds and made only east/west beds - that way I have less to dig. I will use some of my soil for the bottom of the beds, but I still believe raised beds are the way to go for me. If for nothing else, just so I can put chicken wire under them to keep the gophers away.

My opinion of the concept of double digging: take that book and add it to the compost pile. double digging is not worth the effort, time or expense. adding organic matter and using cover crops in the off season will do the same thing. Just my opinion!

one last comment, I assumed you were going to have grass pathways and just mow the grass between the beds. I do this on some of my plots to provide an all weather access.

When I start a new bed (I do it either late fall or early spring when my crappy clay is diggable) I fork down as deep as possible, add some horse manure (make sure there are no weird stuff in them), water it in a couple of times. Then build my beds with hardware cloth for gophers. I then add garden soil from organic landscaping places (going with bags will cost you a mint!), watering in every couple of inches.

I would re-think your 2 ft paths! Think (and try it out since you haven't built it yet!) about all of the compost and soil you will have to add over the years, and will it be easy to get a wheel barrow in there, turned and dumped without having to climb up into the next bed! I screwed up there with my garden! I can't change it unless I totally move my garden to a place that's not near the kitchen! 3 feet is the best! Nancy

You haven't mentioned what kind of crops you will grow but I will say in my garden I like at least 4ft walkways at min. with a 4ft perimeter around the entire bed.

I don't know if there is a fence or how close this is to the house or other immovable objects but hope you can find another way to change this layout. I do understand 4ft is not always possible and the wonderful thing about gardening is you can do whatever you want when it is your garden.

For trellising you can improvise something else. Maybe a pipe or wooden post pounded in the ground to hold some uprights. You have all winter to think about that.

You said you are already suppressing the weeds right? Do a search on Lasagna Gardening - it may give some other ideas.

obtw - having turned my backyard into full garden space already and knowing what I know now - there is no way I would double dig - building the beds like the OP has indicated is the WTG IMO. By not walking in the beds the soil will be extremely soft and upright supports are needed for most large or vining plants.

To my way of thinking grass is a perennial weed that will invade my vegetable garden. It will compete with plants for water and nutrients and it also harbor slugs and insects. To mow or weed whack it just scatters weed seeds into the beds.

IF you will grow potatoes get the soil test done and follow their advice - potatoes like a low Ph like 4.5-5 so even compost may not be needed or wanted.

From experience doing the exact same thing but on a much larger scale:

* Do not even bother with landscaping fabric under the beds. I had 5oz woven, 4.1 oz, and 3oz all fail. Use cardboard.

* Plan out underground irrigation or at least run a main line now. Plan and use in-line drip irrigation. (very important).

* Plan out any posts for shading, support, trellises now. (very important depending on area sun/snow).

* Plan out how to cover beds for winter or during off season. This keeps weeds down. 4-5oz landscape fabric, hay, etc to cover it.

* Plan out how exactly you're going to deal with the weeds between the beds now. 4-5oz landscape fabric would work here. Don't put this off until "later."

* Make sure their is ample room to sit/reach/get a cart through. You will be working around there for a while. Budget caps for the blocks to have a nice smooth surface to sit on.

* Don't even think of single block beds or planting inside the holes of the blocks.

________

Being completely honest, I would not do it again. I would till tons of amendments into native soil in straight lines. Then have irrigation running in straight lines. Maybe have block to keep the soil in mounds better. I of course have way, way, way more beds that you have and may be younger. Double beds are great for the back. :)

I despise landscape fabric because it never ever breaks down. Weeds will eventually take root in the fabric - trying to remove the weeds will tear the fabric leaving holes and pieces which simply won't decompose.

Yes cardboard, newspapers, and/or mulch will decompose but that adds organic matter to the soil and that is a good thing.

Agreed but for a ground cover/weed killer it works great. My block beds are the exact size of the 5oz fabric. Roll it out, put a few rocks to keep it in place, and the weeds are kept at bay. When I need to plant I can roll it back up. I don't have ready access to hay or organic cover. I am going to start cover crops next year.

Regarding pathways, I will be using wood chips to mulch them, maybe with cardboard under the chips. I will test them out first. I actually just bought about 20 blocks of concrete for testing (turns out these things are super heavy and I'll need 11 tons of them lol (350 blocks of 33lbs each)). I'm pretty sure I will not have the paths 4ft wide, but might consider something wider than 2ft. THere are only 3 beds that will not have wider side access, but I will think about expanding the pathways.

I plan to grow leafy greens and some of the sallad "vegetables" like tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, along with herbs and roots like turnips/radishes/beets/onions/garlics etc. Maybe a carrot here and there and maybe a small patch for potatoes. Check out the 3d plan few posts above this and you will see the fences. The house is basically starts where the screenshot ends on the bottom - about 7ft from the raised beds.

AJ, for under the bed I will use only cardboard and chicken wire. For irrigation I'm considering either subsurface or drip at the beds with main line running underground to each bed.

I will not use cinder blocks, but solid 16"x8"x4" (33lb!) blocks of concrete - no holes. Two stacked on top of each other, staggred to half width. It gives me a 4" frame around the bed which can be used for sitting down.

And yes, I do plan to use cover crops in the beds, but have not read enough on the subject just yet.

Planning the pathway is just for problems up ahead. Let's say that middle bed in your second revision gets a root growing up or some disease spreads. You need to replace the dirt. Can you get a wheel barrow/cart to there? Can you then maneuver 350lbs of dirt in that cart?

What about three long beds that are subdivided into different beds? Irrigation would be just three long pipes and/or emitter tubing. Replacing one bed could still happen. Posts for trellises/shade/irrigation would be in a straight line.

Careful of the ground if using solid bricks. Loose soil and/or heavy rain and it will sink. A slope could worsen things. Good call on the chicken wire. Forgot certain areas need that.

I've grown sweet potatoes, corn, carrots, parsnips, turnips, and way more root vegetables in 2 high cinder blocks. Long varieties of carrots and sweet potatoes really pushed that depth but still worked fine.

To reiterate what others said re compost, I use a 50/50 blend of compost and top soil. This year, our brilliant town officials decided to take all the brush that was being dropped at the town dump and give it to Long Island Compost to sell to the unsuspecting public. I purchase a bunch and it seems that there was some nasty bits in it as I have some issues that I have been told are easy to prevent if I turn over my beds good every year. Well, since these are brand new beds, I was asked about what I used to fill them. The conclusion was that the issues must have come in with the soil/compost.

Another interesting thing this year, every place now sells compost for the exact same price. The place I was using told me they use Long Island Compost now. The cost is 50% more. I was told the reasoning is because it just wasn't worth the expense of screening it all themselves. To me, it sounds more like they were told to do it. I called a dozen places and had varies quotes on soil and RCA, but every single place sold compost for the exact same amount.

I cannot use wood chips on my paths as they bring further reason for the ants. I use RCA which is very cheap, although heavy to move about. I have lots of critters here. I fenced in and completely covered the ground with wire fencing prior to laying a base of RCA on top. I went so far as to tie the ground fence and the perimeter fence together to make a 5 sided protected box that is over 7' high. The only way in is from flight. I have been super fortunate as there has been very very little loss of fruit/veggies from critters. The very rare tomato or strawberry has been pecked at from birds and maybe 60 tomatoes from the worms that attacked a couple of plants earlier in the season. Next year I am enclosing a new section on all 6 sides with very very tight netting or screening to wrap all the above ground areas. I was crushed by SVB this year on most of my squash plants. I will buy bees to enclose in the secured section and see how that works out for me.

Good move walking away from plastic in compost. Also Free wood chips or compost can contain invasive weeds like bitter sweet and others esp. those from tree trimmers and electric companies or town crews.

When turning weeds under - beware that weeds seeds can live up to 40yrs or more. That act of turning (or tilling) simply brings these seeds to the surface where they get the flash of light and water needed to germinate. I have seen weeds germinate (grow) right thru the weed (landscape) fabric.

I want to encourage the OP to start this project small maybe leaving out the beds in the middle? To see if the remaining space is sufficient? Seldom is our first layout adequate and most gardeners make changes each year for many years. Starting too BIG is a reason many people stop gardening - it is just a lot of work.

Also maybe using more wood instead of concrete will help with cost, labor, and flexibility. Maybe even using a less expensive wood until the layout is tested? I have some beds made from untreated scrap wood that are more than 10yrs old already.

Having gardened in the same soil since 2000 I recently made more changes to my layout beginning this year. Mainly moving the compost right into the garden and moving another bed a few feet from where the neighbor put up a 6ft fence. This way it gets sun sooner in the day now.

Other beds I moved together to eliminate the 2ft walkways. The 3ft one is borderline but I tolerate it only cuz I have room on the outside of it. Even with 4ft the happy plants grow into the walkways.

Paths: after playing around with the concrete blocks outside, you are right that 2ft is too close. I will no plan for either 3ft everywhere, or 4ft middle walkway(north/south) and 2ft between the beds (east west). That way I'll have 4ft on two of the sides (narrow) of the beds, and 2ft between them for walking. I don't think I'll need 4ft on all 4 sides. I'll redo my plans again and see how it works out. I'll likely have to merge the beds to make up for lost area.

Trellises: I just realized that the way I'm planning things, I'll have trellises facing south, this means everything behind them will be in shade - no good. I'll have to think about that again.

Solid bricks: I was thinking of putting some gravel in the trenches that I will dig to help me level the big concrete bolcks. It will also help with drainage. I don't plan to mortar/glue anything so I'll need them to be as level and straight as possible to keep the structure as solid as possible. I'll end up with 15" beds which should be plenty for most roots.

RCA - what is it? Too simmilar with the audio video plugs so can't google it :)

Starting small: I did this year. I have a single 32sqft container with MM in it and grew some veggies in it. To be honest they didn't do too well, but I planted everything in late July so no surprises :)

Regarding wood, even with the cheapest pine I can find , it is more expensive than using concrete blocks, and I think the concrete blocks are as flexible as it gets. I can always shorten/lenghten/reoconfigure with them since I don't plan to mortar them in. It is like having legos for the garden.

I sat for 2 hours this morning watching the sun rise and I think I can trim some of my trees to get another 30min-1hr of morning (10am-11am) sun. If I get the neighbours to cut their tree down or trim it, I'll likely have good 8 hours of mid day sun. Otherwise I'll have that only in mid-Summer and about 4-5hrs of midday sun in April/May/September/October - should be fine.

I'll post new plans later today for comments. Thanks everyone, the discussion has been very helpful so far!

Ok, here are two versions with the math that comes with them:

v3 has 3ft walkways around all beds. Yields 282.5sqft of growing area and would cost about $1400 for MM soil or about $750 for compost + top soil (not mine):

v4 has 4ft walking pathway in the middle and 2ft between the beds. Note that I have about 6ft on the left/west side of the garden and another 10 on the right/east side for access to the beds. This plan allows for 314.5sqft of garden with almost no difference in building material, but with about 15-20% more soil cost, so about $1700 for MM or $900 for compost/top soil:

In terms of material cost, I'm looking at between $2000 and $3600 for v3 plan and between $2200 and $4000 for v4. I'm definately not going for MM pre-made bags, nor Cedar beds. That puts me at about $7/sqft.

Now I have to price in the irrigation as well, of course, but that is likely to be the same for either configuration.

More to come soon... :)

Lol... just goes to show... Americans lol!

At the moment, before expansion, I have 300 or so sq. ft. Total cost... well, let's see... add 0 to 0, minus 0, x 0 (for the number of beds) + 10 tip for the free woodchips (which are for the walkways) = wait for it .... yep, if I did my calculations right... $10.

I don't say this to brag or one-up... it just blows my mind.

If you know you have bad soil, then... understandable. But if you want to just give money away... hello! I'm sure the professionals here just love it lol. Saw you coming... Meh, I suppose some people have more money than time or ability.

In any case... and I mean this... good luck with your efforts!

RCA is crushed up concrete. Cheap, doesn't attract bugs, no slip, mud, or other nastiness. I used it because of all the burrowing animals.

Msoilay be the best on the planet, but with groundhogs, moles, and voles...protected raised beds are the only way I can go with protecting my plants.

I'm a fan of lasagna gardening. Our soil is old sod/pasture with lots of quack grass and creeping jenny. I use thick layers of newspaper (but cardboard would be great) and then layers of green (kitchen compost, fresh grass clippings) and brown (old chopped leaves) topped with composted cow or horse manure. A friend buys bales of straw but that's going for $10 a bale this year (straw, not hay). You will have little problem with things growing up through the pile since if you start now and build a 24" tall pile, it will settle down a lot over winter. Since I have grass walkways, the creeping weeds try to invade the beds. This year, doing a trench has worked pretty well. You angle the spading shovel. Weed roots hit air and stop. But I also have an area with just wet newspapers covered with old grass clippings.

Tree roots are worse than the shade of the tree. I find roots beyond the drip line of a large maple. I've had good luck using a $14.99 critter repellant spray after losing a bunch of tomatoes to chipmunks and voles. The true test will be whether I lose some winter squash this year.

If weeds invade a bed in the late fall when I get super lazy, I cover with black plastic. They die and are easier to dig out when I'm ready to plant. It's impossible to keep a winter squash bed weeded once the vines start to run. Also, if you aren't walking on the beds, the soil stays pretty loose. Dense plant i.e. square foot gardening also keeps down weeds. One the veggies are established, they don't need weeding. I like planting short rows across my beds because I'm mainly feeding just two of us.

Check Craigslist for possible free manure or leaves. I started my first bed with grass clippings from a neighbor who simply had been piling them at the end of his yard.

$20 tomatoes!!!! even if you only eat them yourself

@ rgreen48 You can spend $0.00 and till right into native soil. However, there are other factors that that almost force spending money. The biggest ones are the complete lack of community and infrastructure to support "urban/city" vegetable gardening. Every single thing is catered towards grass, flowers, and trees. Second, the number of "free" things available can vary greatly. One area can have unlimited cheap compost available while another area has nearly nothing.

The straight lined beds, while not as pleasing to look at, are much easier to work with.

rgreen48,

I wish I could plant directly into the soil. Even if my soil weren't crap, gophers...ugh. I have a hard time with just normal landscaping plants because the gophers will eat the plants completely, shear off the roots or just tunnel around the root ball and divert water away from the plant. It's not an "American" thing, for many of us raised beds are the only way to go if you actually want to get something out of your garden (for many reasons). Not speaking for the OP, just slightly irritated about the "Americans are stupid because they don't do what I do" tone.

We built my mother a 12' long, 4' wide, 3' tall raised bed this past spring. She really wanted to garden, and has health issues where she shouldn't be bending over. I got a load of both topsoil and compost delivered, and filled it with equal parts. Here and there I threw in a bucket of leaves, and a old bale of straw I had left from the fall, and the like. Her garden thrived this year! Cauliflowers like I've never seen before, and the amount of kale harvested off of just 6 plants was absolutely amazing, and is still being harvested. There were also beets, carrots, radishes, lettuce, onions, and a second cauliflower planting is in it now. Spinach and radishes will be next. It was not cheap - about $300 in cedar, and $150 in topsoil / compost, but it is an investment. One that makes her happy. And one that will provide food for years to come. I'm sure what will be harvested this year alone, if purchased from a farmers market - would come close to $200

So - all that to say I think a 50 / 50 mix of topsoil and compost will work. And yes - 3' paths minimum! Good luck, and happy planning!!!

Three foot paths iii a very good idea. I have 24" ones and where the tomatoes and squash are growing it is like climbing through a jungle. It would still be tight at 3', but at 2' both sides of the path have grown completely into each other.

rgreen48 - No americans in my house, but either way I don't see anything wrong with them so not sure what you mean. I'm here to learn what's the best way to do this project, so thanks for the useful and constructive criticism.

Jim's - Thanks, I'll research RCA. I don't think I have a big issue with burrowing animals, but I do have a couple of holes and a couple of piles of dirt so I'm sure there is something in there. I have all winter to decide which way to go (4ft/2ft combo vs 3ft all around) and I'm sure my plan will change many times until then so thanks for the feedback.

defrost49 - didn't think about the tree roots. I think the closest tree to my beds will be around 10 feet - hopefully it is far enough. I think I'll have to deal with this if/when it happens. In my test setup this year I had exactly 2 weeds to remove all season so I think you're right that dense planting helps. Thanks for the craigslist tip. Never though of checking it. Only trouble is that I might get questionable stuff there.

jnjfarm_gw - I've had about 5 lbs of tomatoes out of 4sqft and I planted these in mid July at about 10" tall plants. That puts my tomatoes at $5.6/lb, and yes I ate them all - pretty tasty.

AJ - yep, I do have free compost avaible but I wouldn't want to eat anythig grown in it.

ekgrows - Yep, sounds like topsoil/compost is the most economical and I'm definately considering it. I think it will come down to what I can get delivered at a reasonable price. So far 3 of the local nurseries have replied to my requests saying their biggest bag is 4lbs...

And just so it is clear, I'm doing raised beds for 2 main reasons:

- I have a 12-13 gedgree slope (about 1ft drop every 8ft)

- I have some critters underground

I'm envious of everone who has super rich soil on level ground with 12+ hours of sunlight, but I have to work with what I have. I will get my soil tested and if it comes decent I will likely ammend it with good quality compost and use that, but I still have to build the beds, otherwise every time it rains, half my soil will go down the ditch.

Thanks everyone for the comments and information, keep it coming.

Just a couple comments about the way the beds are now oriented.

You say south is on the bottom, right? So the beds are oriented east-west. To me that would be harder to build a trellis (8ft wide?) across the widest part.

The reason the 4ft/2ft would cost more is you made the beds larger, holding more soil; but you knew that.

Consider either - 4/3ft

Or what I like better is a horseshoe if you will. 4ft wide beds all the way around leaving either 2 or 3ft walkway at the top to see if that is to your liking. The only tight spot will be near the shed. You could make a narrower bed there to leave room between shed and bed. It will leave the center open and you can access everything all the way around even leaving room in the center for a compost bin or two if you choose to.

OK just remembered the slope and it slopes to the north correct? How bout the same horseshoe style layout but the beds could be tiered maybe every 6ft or so?

Georgi, I have lots of sun and pretty good soil thanks to the lasagna method. We found a great source of composted horse manure, bedding and kitchen scraps that the owner turns during the winter and just charges a nominal fee to load our utility trailer in the spring. I actually don't like the manure from our neighbor because it has too much sawdust in it and somehow turns to concrete. Wishing you luck finding a great source of composted manure. But despite all my successes such as an amazing winter squash patch this year, I can't seem to grow a decent zucchini. Indoor started plants in one bed struggled. Direct sown plants in a different bed also struggled. Possibly not enough water early in the season. It's been pretty dry here. I lost 4 blueberry bushes to improper planting followed by neglect. Gardening is about learning and accepting the challenges. Right now I see a small amount of tomato hornworm damage, even spotted some poop, but I can't find the worms. I have my fingers crossed that birds are getting the worms. You might find that areas of less sunlight help you grow the best lettuce and greens. I have grown tomatoes in less than full sunlight. They've done fine just haven't produced as much as plants grown in more "perfect" conditions. And you will probably do better than another gardener who doesn't care as much.

didn't think about the tree roots. I think the closest tree to my beds will be around 10 feet - hopefully it is far enough

Sorry, but depending on the variety, age and height of the tree, 10 feet away from the tree isn't far enough to keep roots from invading your box. After 2 years I had to dig out all the roots from 4 raised beds and now I am having to raise the beds off the ground.

Just thought I'd put an update here.

Over the winter, I've been changing layouts, trying configurations with a few blocks and looking for a smarter way to fill the raised beds.

Next month I will be building 4x 11'x3' beds and 2x 15'x3' beds with 3ft walkways between them - enough to move my dump cart around. The berry bed is already in place with berries and garlic planted from last year. I also have the strawberry section done and planted - hoping for some fruit this summer.

While clearing some trees I've accumulated about 5cu ya of wood chips which will be used for the walkways between the beds. I also composted all my fall leaves with coffee - quite surprised how much the pile shrank.

Neighbors will be removing the close by tree within the next couple of years (I didn't even have to ask them, they told me) so that will help with afternoon sun.

And as far as soil is concerned, I'll be doing 3:1 ratio of 100% leaf compost and farm loam, both from a local garden supply screened to 5/8th". The soil will be tested before it is delivered to me as well.

This weekend I'm starting some of the spring cold crops inside and hopefully when the ground loosens up, I'll be able to put the beds up, plumb the irrigation and start planting.

Keep in mind that a garden in full bloom will have foliage overflowing into the walkways. Also using cinder blocks takes up additional 8 in. on all side (x4) that really adds up when space is limited. Planting in the cinderblock holes hasn't worked for many, plus that is even closer to the aisle for foliage to grow in to.

So the moral is an empty garden layout looks so much roomier than a garden in full bloom. But the reality is that every gardener can choose their own layout.

To me gardening is just one BIG experiment.

Good Luck

That would be an awesome problem to have - too much stuff growing :)

But yes, I've taken the block size into account. And I'm also using 16x8x4 blocks that are solid, not the typical 16x8x8.

The experiment/having fun part is why I'm really doing this (and because I don't like to mow the grass ;) )

Cheers!

Georgi,

Thank you for all the updates on your garden. Sounds like you have a solid plan for your garden. Really hope you have a bountiful garden!

Craig

I'm a bit behind for the season, but I finally finished them this weekend.

Final design is of 23x2 back bed for berries, two 13x5ft to the west and two 10x5ft to the east. I decided to do these 4 instead of the 6 above so that I can have bigger paths between the beds (about 3.5ft right now) and to optimize the space a bit.

In the last 4 weeks, I've moved the following from my driveway (where it was delivered) to my back yard using a spade shovel and a gorilla cart. Who needs gym when you can move dirt...

290 concrete blocks (33lb each).
6+ cubic yards of wood chips.
12+ cubic yards of garden soil (this alone took me 17 hours over 2 days to move)

Ran 3/4" irrigation few inches below the surface (it is not below frost line, but I have 4-5" of chips on top and I will be draining it before hard winter hits)

Here are they finished with wood chips and soil in them.

Here is one of the two soil tests that I did on the garden mix:

Now I need to start planting and to install the drip irrigation.

Oh, and here is the final cost breakdown:

Soil - $550
Concrete Blocks - $380
Drip Irrigation - $220 (including pvc, drip line, emitters, filters, manual timer, fittings, flow restrictors etc).
Wood Chips - free from tree company

Thanks everyone for your input. Now to start planting :)

You did a beautiful job! I wasn't sure what it would look like from your descriptions, but what you ended up with looks very professional and tidy. Can't wait to see it with plants!

The beds do look very nice but I have to say I still think making any bed any wider than you can reach to the center without walking in - is too wide.

Typically that means no wider than 4 ft. But I guess time will tell how you like it. I am thinking you won't be tilling with those water lines in the soil but that is a good thing too (not tilling).

I didn't see any trellis supports.

Yea with all the work you've done you won't need a gym. :-)

I have some beds wider than 3-4 so I understand what gumby means. But, they are a good size for certain vegetables that need more room. For example, my potato patch is big but after the first hilling with dirt, I hill with a thick layer of straw. Generally I can reach most of the potato beetles and larvae to knock into a plastic container of water just by circumnavigating the patch. It stays weed free. Tomatoes and zucchini well mulched are ok in a large bed. I also put a trellis down the middle for sugar snaps. That means I'm walking into the garden to weed and harvest but compaction can be lessened by putting down a board to walk on. Happy gardening!

CC Thanks!

gumby - yes, the 5ft decision wasn't easy. I practiced digging/planting/pruning in the middle of the first bed to make sure I'm ok with it before I built the rest. It helps me a lot that I have a place to sit/step on and reach in.

Trellis support (aka el conduit) is still in pieces. I planted rattlesnake and garden of eden pole beans and they will be the first to need it, but not in the next several weeks, I don't think. I should have some their trellis ready by then.

defrost - yes I can use a board if I need to, and except for tomatoes, I will keep all my tall plants on the north (top) side of the beds to keep them from shading the rest of the bed. If it turns out it is a big problem, I'll just rearrange them. It will likely be a weekend project to do it.

Everything except the blackberries (not here yet), strawberries (last fall), blueberries(last fall), garlic (last fall), pawpaws(not here) and figs(not here) was planted during the week. I can't wait to see things grow in these new beds!

Next I'm starting to prepare my tomatoes and peppers. In a couple of weeks I'll plant some more lettuce in the bottom left bed and maybe some more spring crops. It might get too hot for them, but we'll see. The rest of the open area will be mostly tomatoes and peppers, okra and some eggplant.